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Messages - mdxix

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Can you try simulation now? How does it work?
It ran for a few miles, went into infinite-loop-at-the-interchange mode, and then crashed the GPSR.  I had to pull the batteries out of the unit to reset it.  I wasn't brave enough to try the Ride With GPS file  :-\
Ouch. That is brave enough.

Good luck on your trip.

Gear Talk / Re: ACA & Smartphones
« on: April 24, 2013, 08:56:42 pm »
Currently, most of these discussions takes place on the GPS board, but we can see how things develop and create a new board if necessary.
I agree. Conversations in the GPS board will likely evolve and become more about Electronic Navigation or better yet eNavigation :)

Even GPS units are evolving. Already the Garmin Edge 810 has a bluetooth connection with the iPhone to exchange data, download routes, and send live tracking information.

At some point, a rename of the board may be in order.

I am unable to run a simulation of the Ride With GPS route, as BaseCamp recognizes it as a track and not a route.  It will load onto the etrex, but I cannot run a simulation.
I do not believe that you have to use BaseCamp at all to use the two routes that I just gave you. Try this please:
  • Quit BaseCamp. Leave it out of the picture completely for this experiment.
  • Download the two routes I mentioned earlier: bcdemo & rwgdemo.
  • Connect the eTrex to your computer. A new storage device should appear in Finder.
  • Open that storage device.
  • Open the Garmin folder.
  • There should be a GPX folder in there already. Otherwise, look at the various folder and see which one has the routes from previous load you have made.
  • Copy the two files from above to this directory, GPX or otherwise.

Can you try simulation now? How does it work?

I'm going to have to take their word that this won't be a major issue when I am on the road, do my best to make the routes as accurate and stable as possible in BaseCamp before transferring them to the etrex, and then hope for the best!
Really? Can you try charting a route in BaseCamp near your house, load it, and go out for a ride to verify that the eTrex will behave as expected?

Can I safely delete these, as well as all of the routes which appear at the bottom of the scroll?  We have made this information redundant, correct?
Exactly, you got it.

when I transfer the "Mod" file into the GPSR and run it in demo mode, it shows the straight-line, point-to-point route correctly.  When I recalculate the route and run the GPSR in simulation mode, it becomes confused at an interchange along the route and truncates the route.
This is strange. You mean that the route does not show following the road? Are you sure that you have loaded the City Navigator map onto your GPS? Remember that you need to transfer the maps from your computer to the GPS using Map Install.

Is it still giving you trouble?

Try using the files that I created just to be sure (all files will be there temporarily for 2–3 months after this post):

1.  What is the best, most simple way for me to save these modified routes to my Mac and then BaseCamp for transfer to the GPSR?
Once you have the routes on your Mac, drag & drop onto BaseCamp. In BaseCamp, create a new list and put all of them in it. That will make it easiest to export them.

2.  Once the route data has been massaged and loaded, how do I get the waypoint data (Point(s) of Interest only, with no routing data), loaded into the GPSR so that I can find campgrounds, etc.?  Will this be a process which parallels the route modification process?
Put all the waypoints that you want to use in a new list under My Collection. From there, export that list into a GPX file and copy it to the unit. Or transfer it directly from BaseCamp to the unit.

We can cover those two points in more detail once you have the routes mapped properly.

GPS Discussion / Re: Cue Sheet for navigating Ride with GPS routes
« on: April 22, 2013, 09:17:48 pm »
Great. Thank you for the feedback.

Do you mind sharing your RWG TransAm route? I believe Greg was trying to map the same route, east to west, and struggling slightly. He can probably use your route as a baseline and edit it as needed for his needs.

I was wanting to put the NA sd card onto a bigger sd card so I can add routes from the ACA maps and be able to toggle between whatever is on the bigger sd card without changing out sd cards while on my trip.  Is this possible?
Yes, you should be able to. There is no hidden code on the microSD card itself. There is though hidden code in the maps that allows you to only use them with the unit that they were unlocked for. You cannot transfer these maps to another unit and use them.

On Garmin web site, under the Accessories tab, it shows 4GB microSD card with SD adapter to be compatible with the GPSMAP 60CSx.

Hate to buy another version like a disc or download when I already have the N America maps on a micro sd card.
Think about using Open Source Maps. As I just upgraded to the Edge 810, I will not buy City Navigator maps for several reasons:
  • Online maps & mapping tools are far superior to BaseCamp.
  • OSM shows bicycle trails which are yet to be available on City Navigator.
  • OSM has worldwide coverage for visiting any region. Details vary for each country, but most have enough.
  • OSM is not locked with the GPS unit. I can use them with any and all GPS units that you have.
  • It costs $0 for each map set of each region that I want to bicycle in.
  • OSM is constantly updated. I can always download the latest. Free.

 8)  8)  8) Cool cool cool.

I just got my Edge 810 as well—still playing with it. I look forward to exchanging experience with you.

GPS Discussion / Cue Sheet for navigating Ride with GPS routes
« on: April 20, 2013, 11:14:24 am »
This is an Android phone app for navigating routes created with Ride with GPS route planner.

Alas, there is no iPhone version of it just yet. Those with Android phone, please post your feedback of this app. It is free unless you want the premium features.

Gear Talk / Re: Rack mounted tail lights
« on: April 20, 2013, 11:01:00 am »
Take a look at this detailed review of tail lights that includes:
  • Cost
  • Brightness
  • Flash patterns
  • Battery life
  • Mounting mechanisms
  • Ease of installation
  • Ease of battery replacement
  • Special features

I hacked away at this one for a while
Indeed that is tricky. It took a few tries to figure out how to make it take the correct route.

I thought if a picture tells a thousand words, then a video may tell a thousand pictures. I recorded the steps I took to manipulate the route. Note the following about the video:

  • Download the video to get higher quality images.
  • This video is for demonstration purposes only. I do not have the maps for that particular section nor do I know for sure what direction the route should follow. Please check it yourself when you are editing the route.
  • The video will be available for a limited time only. I will remove it after some time in 2–3 months from this posting.

Here are some key steps:
  • Edit the file from ACA as soon as I download it to remove the waypoints. I make two files: one for the waypoints and one just for the routes.I explained the steps earlier.
  • While editing the route in BaseCamp, some route points may be troublesome. I remove them.
  • Other route points, like the one you encountered, are troublesome, but we have to deal with them. I am not sure what is going on with the calculation there in BaseCamp. It took several tries to figure out the correct placement.
I continued to work on this route to finish it. I noticed that past Colonial Parkway, the route seemed to be going off-road on a trail. So I decided to try another approach with online maps. Where you have to deal with trails off-road, I do not know of a good way of dealing with that in BaseCamp. May be others on the forum do and can help.

I edited the route using Ride with GPS. I recorded another video with all the steps. The same notes about the video above apply here.

Here are some key steps:
  • RWGPS does not automatically import route points from ACA files to anchor the route.
  • Sprinkle the route with "anchor" route points as soon as you finish importing it. It does not matter yet that these points are not in the correct spot.
  • Nudge each anchor point, while adding others, to snap the route on the correct roads.
  • Switch to Bike Path view to view bike paths. This is how I got the route on a trail past Colonial Parkway. Note that the map does not distinguish paved versus dirt roads.

Additionally, after doing just a couple of routes/map panels, it seems that the entire project could take nearly as long as the ride itself.
Wow, you must be really fast on the bicycle :)

As you see in the videos, after doing a couple of these, I hope it would only take 10–15 minutes per route.

Is there a way for me to determine whether or not the route data I am working with has already been stripped of unnecessary waypoints?
Indeed. Just open the file using a text editor. Waypoints are indicated with <wpt> tags in the file.

In the example above, I removed the waypoints immediately after I downloaded the route from ACA. None of the resulting files, therefore, had any waypoints.

The route section and name causing the trouble is J0CE90- the very first route westbound beginning in Yorktown.  Specifically, the first oddity is the routing (westbound) between J0C9N0 and J0C9L0, via J0C9M0 (which is skipped and left hanging out as an eastward-deviating spur from J0C9L0).  The route should, according to the ACA map, continue down Colonial Parkway, but instead heads down what I believe is CR 5.
I think I understand what is happening. Note my earlier recommendation in this thread to examine the route for any irregularities after recalculation.

In this case, force the route to take the correct road by adding your own route points. On a Mac in BaseCamp:
  • Position the map so you have a good view of the irregular section of the route
  • Select Tools from the menu bar
  • Select Selector
  • Hold the Option key on your keyboard
  • Click the route and drag it to the correct route
It should recalculate and hopefully position the route correctly. Otherwise, add one or two more points.

Remember that the number of these route points does not deplete your GPS capacity of adding waypoints. Therefore, you can add as many of them as you need (I suppose there is a limit, but I never reached it).

Back to your earlier point about the route showing as straight line on your GPS:
I plotted out a driving route on BaseCamp using a beginning and ending destination.  It gave me driving directions.  When I loaded this into the GPSR, it drew a straight line between the two points.
Try exporting the route as GPX file and load manually onto the unit.
  • Does it still behave the same?
  • Open the GPX file using Text Editor. Is it small with just the two route points, or does it have route details with plenty of coordinates?

GPS Discussion / Re: Copilot Live
« on: April 17, 2013, 10:53:35 pm »
Please do post feedback about your experience with using the phone on a tour & this specific app.

Is this for use for continuous navigation or occasionally at certain intersections? For the former, I am curious how are are planning to manage using the phone in wet conditions, and keeping it supplied with battery power all day.

As for the app, please post some information about loading it with the GPX files, and how it navigates them. Did you use the GPX files as is or manipulate them? How? Looking at CoPilot manual, I did not see much information about importing GPX files. There were some discussions on forums, but did not find definite answers.

You are most welcome Greg.

I spent 45 minutes on the phone with Garmin support today (very friendly, patient, and helpful), but even they were unable to explain exactly why their program processes the ACA data the way that it does, at least not without becoming more familiar with the data itself.
What is the route section & name that is causing trouble? Give me some more information. I can download it and take a look.

While ACA routes structure is complicated, using BaseCamp is not easy either. I often resort to some online tools to fix problems. The online tools try to keep files simple and compatible with many formats.

Let me have a look.

My response below is detailed, and rather long at times. Pick what you need of it.

I intend to use an etrex 30 for the Trans Am, traveling east-west.  I have the very latest version of City Navigator loaded onto the GPSR, and use BaseCamp to correspond with the GPSR and load into it the ACA GPS data.
I assume you also have City Navigator in BaseCamp as well, no?

The etrex 30 has the capacity for 200 routes and 2000 waypoints.  Can I now use the waypoint capacity for the information unrelated to routing, e.g. hotels, campgrounds, etc.?
Exactly. You should be able to use the full waypoint capacity for points of interest. The route should not take any of that capacity. Here is a trick (using BaseCamp v4.1.1 on Mac Computer):
  • Manipulate the route and waypoints as you wish in BaseCamp.
  • Ideally, you make sure that the route is following the road, instead of being a collection of straight lines between route points. Here is how. Note: the steps below are only valid with a detailed map present in BaseCamp, such as City Navigator or OSM.
    • Double-click on the route that you want to follow the road
    • BaseCamp opens a small window with route details. It also displays the full route on the map
    • Take a good look at the route map to remember its layout
    • From the small window, select the round arrow button to recalculate.
    • Take another close look at the route, noticing any irregularities in the calculation. This is common, particularly when the route is supposed to be on a trail off-road that City Navigator does not know about.
    • I believe this exercise is well worth the trouble. While the route is following the road, the GPS will give you exact directions and prompts. It will also accurately calculate the distance to destination, so you know how much is left for you in the day.
  • To keep your library organized, create new lists under My Collection. Create at least one list for routes and other for points of interest.
    • Select My Collection
    • In the box at the bottom left corner of the screen, locate the "gear" symbol next to the title My Collection
    • Select the gear symbol
    • Select View Detailed Data List from the menu
    • Select Routes from the menu of choices at the top
    • Select the routes you want from the list, most likely all of them
    • Using the mouse, drag and drop the select routes into the new list
  • Highlight the list that you created in the previous step for routes.
  • From the menu bar, select File.
  • Select Export <list name>.
  • You should now have a GPX file on your computer.
  • Most likely the file will still have ACA waypoints.
  • Remove them manually per the steps I explain separately.
This file now is strictly for route data, whether following the road or straight lines. It does not take any of waypoints memory.

If so, how do I do this, and how will it display as I am rolling down the road?  Do I have to go into the menu of the GPSR and search through "camgrounds", or will they display automatically as I pass near them?

You have two options to do this. Whichever one you prefer, please test it and write your feedback. I do not have an eTrex, therefore, not exactly positive of its performance.
  • No prompts, default settings:
    • Remember that we earlier created two collections: one for routes and another for waypoints.
    • Review this list, edit it, clean it up, and change it until it contains the waypoints that you like.
    • Export this list to a file and copy the file to the GPS.
    • As you are navigating the route, when you are looking at the map, these waypoints should appear on the map.
    • You will not get prompts when you are near a waypoint, not will you see it on screens other than the map.
    • You can still select it or search for it from the list of locations on your GPS unit.
  • Proximity alerts:
    • Double-click on a waypoints
    • In the new small window, select Advanced
    • Enter a value in the Proximity field.
    • This is the distance that you want to be alerted of the waypoint
    • Notice how BaseCamp shows a red circle around the waypoint based on that distance
    • You can do this for multiple waypoints at a time to set the same proximity distance
    • Export the waypoints file
    • Copy the GPX file to the GPS unit

More generally, is this a way to work around the 2000 waypoint capacity limitation of (in this case) the etrex, eliminating the need for a mid-continent reload of the data necessary to complete the Trans Am?
It should, assuming you have fewer than 2,000 waypoints along the route.

With the routes loaded, does the GPSR care that I am traveling east-west rather than west-east?
Yes, it does care. It follows the route points sequentially. Make sure the routes are in the direction of your travel.

Will the turn-by-turn instructions and proximity alarms function identically regardless of my direction of travel, or do I need to reverse the route in BaseCamp and reload it into the GPSR
Proximity alarm to waypoints as we set them up above should work regardless of how you are traveling.

The turn-by-turn instructions and route map will not display correctly. You must reverse the route in BaseCamp.

Also, will the routes follow each other consecutively, or will I need to select a new route when I have completed the one immediately preceding it (For me, JOCE90 is followed by JOCE70.  Will I need to prompt the GPSR to kick off JOCE7O?).
Indeed, you need to select one route after the other manually. The GPS will not move from one to the next automatically.

I have spent hours working with the etrex and BaseCamp, as well as searching this forum and watching online videos, and still can't seem to grasp quite how this system of navigation is supposed to work.
Great. This is the way to do it. Take the GPS on bike rides, hikes, & even car trips. Get a feel for its prompts, routing, display options, & battery life. Learn how to plan a route and then navigate it. Come back to this forum to share your experience & ask questions.

For a cross country trip, with just a little bit familiarity, the GPS unit can turn into a very trusted navigator that will save you time & frustration.

GPS Discussion / Re: best way to get use a Garmin 800 for cc trip
« on: April 12, 2013, 08:41:53 pm »
Since the 705 only holds 100 waypoints, I had to manually enter each and every waypoint that I deemed useful along my route.
Do you need to enter waypoints for the route?

You should be able to store the entire TransAm route, with full details, following the road, using route points instead of way points. Your Edge will prompt you at each turn, calculate the distance to  next turn, and show you the detailed route on the map.

My relationship with the Edge is 100% pure love :)

I have argued before that the ACA routes should be separate from waypoints & points of interest. Later in that discussion I pointed out that waypoints are waypoints and riding routes are riding routes. There is no mixing between the two. The fact that some waypoints happen to be along the route does not make them part of the route. The routes in the GPX file do not have or mix with any waypoints. Instead, they have route points.

The trick is getting rid of way points from your GPX file so they do not clog the memory capacity.

The easiest way is to remove them manually from ACA GPX file. Here is how:
  • Download the GPX file for your favorite ACA route.
  • Open the GPX file using your favorite text editor, such as Notepad on Windows or Text Edit on Mac.
  • Notice how almost the entire first half of the file is full of way points. These do not constitute routes. Remove them.
  • Select the entire section from the first <wpt> tag to the last </wpt> tag.
  • The last </wpt> tag should be just before the first <rte> tag.
  • It is this second section of the GPX file that matters for navigating. It defines route points using <rte> tags. Leave it as is.
Save the file. Load it onto the Edge. Turn on the Edge. It should have not a single way point from this route. Turn it on demo mode and try to navigate any of the routes. It should work just fine.

Note that the route will still display as straight lines. For it to follow the road and give you prompts for turns, the file needs further manipulation using BaseCamp or an online mapping tool.

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