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Messages - RussSeaton

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46
Not so, if your bike is set up right.

If you are comfortable using the drops while climbing and shifting bar end shifters with your hands still on the bars, then your bars are WAY too high.  You must have a 45 degree angle in your back while using the drops.  And a 90 degree back when using the hoods.  Your bars are way too high and probably your reach is too short.  In case you did not know, which I suspect you did not, when riding in the drops, with a slight bend in your elbow, your back should be flat, horizontal to the ground.  When your hands are on the hoods your back should be about 45 degrees to the ground.

ROFLMAO!  You're wrong, but keep the nonsense flowing, it's really entertaining.

No.  You have a very poorly fitted bike if you are comfortable climbing using the drops.  Unfortunately, poorly fitted bikes are very common.  Drops are used for getting aero.  Minimizing wind resistance.  You have to get your back flat to do that.  You cannot climb with your back flat and your eyes staring down at the road under the front wheel.  Breathing isn't as easy with your back flat.  Yet you claim to climb with your hands in the drops.  So when in the drops, you do not have a flat back.  You ride in the drops with your back at a 45 or 60 degree angle.  That is a poorly fitting bike.  I'd recommend you get a properly fitted bike.

47
Gear Talk / Re: Terry Touring Bikes - Coto Doñana Tour
« on: August 02, 2016, 10:12:29 pm »
Don't know anything about Terry bicycles.  Long ago they specialized in making bikes for small women with 700C rear wheels and small 24" front wheels.  Don't know if they still do that or not.

Your questions:

Is the 20 lb. weight for a custom fit steel frame worth the price (~$3500)?
Are there any drawbacks to a lighter frame?

I'll assume the 20 pounds is for the whole bike maybe including racks and fenders too.  My large man's bike weighs 30 pounds with racks and fenders and pedals and everything else.  So 20 pounds would be light.  But the frame may be much smaller too.  Custom size is good IF you need custom size.  If not, then its more or less wasted money because many higher end tour bike makers use very nice steel and lugs and such to make standard size bikes.  Just like custom makers except the size is standard.  Construction is identical.  $3500 is sort of standard price for custom.  Sort of.  I think Gunnar and Independent Fabrications have custom frames for much cheaper price.

As for potential drawbacks going lighter, it depends on whether the frame is strong enough to handle what you are going to do with it.  If loaded touring, then it will not be light no matter what because the steel needs to be so strong and thick to handle that type of work.  You can get light by going with aluminum or titanium or even carbon frames for touring.  As long as they are made strong enough to handle the loads required.  If you are touring light, then you don't need a loaded touring bike.  Use a light road frame to start with.  You could use a loaded touring bike, but it would not be enjoyable.  I rode a loaded touring bike on RAGBRAI last week, with no bags.  It worked, but I would have preferred riding any of my road bikes instead.  Loaded touring bikes are not great for general riding.

48
Not so, if your bike is set up right.

The previous posts were about using the drops while climbing.  If you are comfortable using the drops while climbing and shifting bar end shifters with your hands still on the bars, then your bars are WAY too high.  You must have a 45 degree angle in your back while using the drops.  And a 90 degree back when using the hoods.  Your bars are way too high and probably your reach is too short.  In case you did not know, which I suspect you did not, when riding in the drops, with a slight bend in your elbow, your back should be flat, horizontal to the ground.  When your hands are on the hoods your back should be about 45 degrees to the ground.  Since you seem to want to ride with your back straight up in the air, I'd suggest you get a recumbent bike.  Lawn chair bike as they are called.

49
Gear Talk / Re: The Newer Cro-Mo Steel Frames
« on: August 01, 2016, 01:34:33 am »
I believe this is why the old steel bikes made with the real stuff, Tange, Tru-Temp, Reynolds etc. have skyrocketed in price.  Something to ponder.

What fantasy imaginary world are you living in?  Old steel lugged frames from the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s have value for "collectors" if they have the right Campagnolo parts on them, and Cinelli stems and bars, and Alfredo Binda toe-straps, and Wolber tubular rims with Clement silk tubulars.  And the right brand name on the frame.  Cinelli, Ciocc, Colnago, Masi, etc.  Otherwise, nobody really wants them.  Even though they are fine frames.  The used price for old Columbus and Reynolds steel frames has not changed much if any in the past decade or two.

50
Food Talk / Re: Malnourishment on a long tour
« on: July 20, 2016, 01:49:42 am »
Vegan would be tough on a tour.  The daily carbohydrates would be easy enough.  Assuming vegans can eat high fructose corn syrup drinks and other "garbage" food that is not healthy unless you are burning calories like crazy on a bike tour.  Guess I am assuming vegans would also be against eating awful foods like Coke, Twinkies, and Hostess fruit pies.  If you are against eating animals I would think you would also be against eating sugar grown in almost slave plantations by big corporate evil enterprises.  Maybe three people died getting a Coke to you and that should be more important than killing a hog for bacon.

51
General Discussion / Re: Bike Touring on Rainy day's
« on: July 20, 2016, 01:39:28 am »
On my lengthier tours I rode in the rain.  I think, but not sure, it was raining when I started the ride.  If it starts raining during a ride, obviously keep riding.  But if it was raining at the start, I suppose you could postpone for awhile.  Never took rain gear on any of my tours because they were all in the summer or a somewhat warm area.  Portugal in November can get cool in the rain, but its not really winter cold.  I guess I have been lucky to always have pretty good weather on my bike tours.

52
I like the idea of getting a lower gear for climbs (22t). A recommendation of crankset here would be much appreciated.

Your bike has a triple crankset with a 74mm bolt circle diameter for the inner chainring.  It can accept as small as 24 teeth inner chainring.  That is it.  Current mountain bike cranksets use a 64mm bolt circle diameter crank.  You can put a 22 tooth inner chainring on those cranks.  You can buy a new 24 tooth 74mm bcd chainring for about $15.  Easy to install yourself (friend) if you have the tools.  Or pay a bike shop $10.  New cranksets are $100-200 to get the 22 tooth chainring.  May or may not need new bottom bracket.  Going from 26 to 24 to 22 is all small incremental changes.  Easily worth $25 or less to go from 26 to 24.  Probably not worth $100-200 to go from 26 to 22.  There are also now old cranksets that used a 58mm bcd inner ring.  They go down to 20 tooth.  You'd have to search to find them.  Doubt anyone sells them retail anyplace.  Again you are $100-200 for new crankset and rings.  20 tooth inner chainring is extra nice to have but it would be a bit of trouble and money to get it.

53
The OP's primary goal is to make the bike as comfortable as possible for long climbs. Don't really see how getting rid of the bar ends would contribute significantly (or even at all) to the attainment of that goal.

The OP stated the following:

"make some modifications to my stock-component 2009 Surly LHT, primarily to make it as comfortable as possible to climb with load for long stretches.... So, my question: what is the single best modification/investment I can make to my Trucker?"

You concentrated on the first statement.  Climbing.  I concentrated on the second statement.  Single best modification.  I ride my touring bike without a load too.  So I want it to be enjoyable to ride/shift then too.  As well as comfortable for climbing.

54
So on touring bikes you have to make a compromise and pick a next best, second choice to make road and mountain components work together.  Thus bar end shifters.  What new bike seller is going to sell a NEW bike with now 5 year old 10 speed STI shifters, and 10 year old 9 speed rear derailleur?  This combination works but is not current.

So Russ, are you advocating "upgrading" a current LHT by putting 5 year old shifters and a 10 year old derailer on it?

And just FWIW, a preference for STI is just like any other preference -- personal.

YES.  It is a great upgrade.  My statement is in reference to NEW bike companies selling NEW touring bikes.  A company cannot sell a NEW bike with 5 year old 10 speed shifters and 10 year old 9 speed rear derailleurs on it.  The person before brought up Trek and a couple other companies selling new touring bikes with bar end shifters.  Yes they do that.  But I explained they do it because it is the only way to offer a new from the factory bike.  Individuals building their own bike or modifying their own bike can easily put 10 year old 9 speed rear derailleurs and 5 year old 10 speed STI shifters on the bike.  And still call it new if they want.  A bike company like Trek cannot call a bike new if it starts with 5 and 10 year old parts.

Personal?  Are you still using 27" wheels instead of 700C?  Are you using freewheels instead of cassettes?  Does your frame have 120mm spacing instead of 130 or 135mm spacing?  Are you using centerpull brakes instead of cantilever brakes?

55
Trek, Bruce Gordon, Peter White, and other highly respected assemblers of touring bikes specify bar end shifters.

As I already stated before, touring bikes are somewhat unique because they require drop road bar and road shifters, with mountain bike derailleurs and cranksets.  For some reason Shimano decided to make their current road and mountain components non compatible.  So on touring bikes you have to make a compromise and pick a next best, second choice to make road and mountain components work together.  Thus bar end shifters.  What new bike seller is going to sell a NEW bike with now 5 year old 10 speed STI shifters, and 10 year old 9 speed rear derailleur?  This combination works but is not current.  So bike sellers sell all new parts on their all new bikes.  Bar end shifters work with everything and are new.  At one time single pivot sidepull brakes and center pull brakes were the standard.  They worked.  But now almost everyone uses dual pivot sidepull brakes.  No center pull brakes are used anymore.  Why?  Something better came along and people realized it and switched.  Same with bar end and friction shifters.  They had their day.  And that day is long past now.

56
Consider the above a very personal opinion.

No.  Not very personal at all.  Almost every single "costly" bicycle sold has combination brake/shifter levers.  Mountain and road bikes.  Both.  If bar end shifters were desired by a majority of people, then the capitalist society we live in would provide them.  If friction shifters were better than the indexed click shifters on every single bike sold, we would have friction shifters.  In a capitalist society, the businesses provide the buyers what they want to buy and will pay for.  That is how capitalism works.  But if you are trying to sell what no one wants, then you won't sell anything.  That is capitalism too.  How many friction or bar end shifters do you see people using?  Almost none.  Touring bikes are somewhat bizarre because they use mountain bike components and need road shifters.  Bar end shifters are an easy way to make this work.  Otherwise you have to mix and match various years and models of road and mountain together to get it to work right.  Go to all your local bike shops.  How many bar end or friction shifting bikes are sold?  None.  Why?  The bike shop is there to make money.  If all their customers want to buy bar end shifters, they would sell all they could.  They would make money and be happy.  But no one wants bar end shifters.  So the bike shop does not sell any.  Very simple.  All the customers want those new fangled (25 years old now) combination shifter/brake do-hickeys.

57
I think the Surly Long Haul Trucker loaded touring bike is considered a good bike for touring.  Most loaded touring bikes are good.  They all perform the same task and all more or less do it equally well.  Its not really complicated.  You want to go on a loaded tour.  So far you have only used the bike for unloaded riding.  Here are a few suggestions to consider.

Tires:  For unloaded riding, you want light, thinner, more supple tires.  They make the ride more fun.  BUT for loaded touring you want heavy duty rough tough thick heavy tires that are indestructible.  So get some tough tires for loaded touring.  They will suck for riding until you get 50 pounds of gear on the bike and are in the middle of nowhere riding through glass and thorns and nails.

Shifting:  The LHT comes with bar end shifters.  Fine choice.  Some love them.  Until they ride a bike with the new fangled modern supposedly delicate and breakable STI shifters.  Then they want to take a hammer to bar end shifters and pound them into junk.  You could make your riding, loaded or unloaded, more fun with STI shifters.

Handlebar tape:  You might want to put two layers of tape on the bars to make them more cushy and comfortable.  But if you have small hands then the extra thickness may make the bars harder to grip.  So don't do it.

I'll assume the gearing on the bike is adequate right now.  And the saddle is comfortable.  And the reach to the bars and bar height is right.  What pedals do you use?  I favor SPD pedals and sandals for riding.  Nothing is as comfortable as that combination.  For fun before your big trip you might want to replace the chain, cassette, chainrings, cables, brake pads.  And oil everything up very well.  But you probably don't need to replace all those parts.  Bike will work fine as is.  Just replace the parts when they wear out or break.  No need to waste money on new stuff when its not needed.  I'll also assume you already own racks and panniers that work well enough.

There really isn't any single best improvement, modification, investment you can make to the bike for loaded touring.  It works well enough as it comes from the factory.  Any changes are minor.  Your question is just like a Toyota Camry owner asking what is the single best improvement I can make to the car?  How can you improve a car that runs perfectly for 300,000 plus miles and never ever breaks down?  And rides and handles fine.  Paint flames on the side of it?

58
Gear Talk / Re: Bike - Light Duty Touring Aluminum vs. Steel
« on: July 14, 2016, 01:20:17 am »
You're asking one bike to do two different tasks.  You want to ride across the country on paved roads carrying minimal baggage and stay in motels.  The best bike for this is a road racing style bike.  It does not have to be a racing bike.  But a bike designed to be ridden only on the road and carry minimal bags.  It should be an easy to ride bike on paved roads.  Lightweight.  Skinny tires for less rolling resistance.  A racing style bike.  With low gears.  It does not have to be a Tour de France race bike.  Just a road only "racing" style bike.

And then you also want a bike that "can handle panniers for shorter bike tours with camping gear".  There are many bikes you can mount a rear rack on and pile stuff on top of the rear rack.  But this usually comes with lots of compromises.  Only loaded touring bikes are really designed for panniers and weight like camping gear.  Other bikes might be able to do this but not well.

All the bikes you listed are sort of cyclocross bikes.  Maybe you could mount racks and panniers to them.  But they really aren't that good for a paved road ride across the country.  They would make it.  Yes.  But a mountain bike would also make it.  Or a BMX bike.  I have a cyclocross bike similar to that Surly you listed.  I enjoy riding it.  But of all my bikes it would be a ways down the list of ones I would pick to ride across the US on paved roads.

Pick one of the things you want to do.  1.  Ride across the US on paved roads with minimal gear staying in motels.  Or 2.  Handle panniers for shorter bike tours with camping gear.  Find a bike that can do one of those things really well and enjoy yourself.  If you later want to do the other, get a second bike designed for that task.

59
Gear Talk / Re: Bike - Light Duty Touring Aluminum vs. Steel
« on: July 13, 2016, 05:10:42 pm »
I'd modify Russ' suggestion to a "light touring" or "sport touring" bike from various manufacturers.  Large saddlebag (perhaps with a seatpost rack to keep it off the tires) and a handlebar bag should be able to hold what you need for so-called "credit card" touring, in which you plan to stay at B&Bs, motels, etc.

The bike I am thinking of is my Cannondale CAAD7 bike.  Its 10-15-20 years old now.  Not sure how old it is.  Aluminum frame and carbon fork with aluminum steerer tube.  No eyelets for mounting racks.  Uses sidepull racing type brakes.  Fits 28mm tires just fine.  Back when it was new it may have been Cannondale's top racing frame.  I have low gearing on it.  13-28 cassette and 52-42-24 triple crankset.  I have ridden it in Colorado many times.  Up and down mountains.  Many centuries on it.  It probably weighs 20+ pounds or so.  Thirty years ago it may have been a high zoot racing bike.  Now I guess it fits the sport touring category.  It would be my first and only choice to put a large saddlebag on and ride across the US staying in motels every night.  I would never ever put panniers or a rack on it and try to carry heavy weight.  Its a great bicycle for riding on paved roads all day long.

60
Gear Talk / Re: Bike - Light Duty Touring Aluminum vs. Steel
« on: July 13, 2016, 03:16:56 pm »
I am planning to ride Transamerica with minimal gear (no or only emergency camping equipment)

Any suggestions for a bike that is lighter weight but can handle panniers for shorter bike tours with camping gear?

You seem to be a bit confused.  You want to ride across the USA with minimal gear.  Any racing bike with a large saddlebag and maybe handlebar bag will work perfectly for this.  Lighter the better.  Assuming it fits.  A light racing bike is much better for this than a heavy duty touring bike ridden with no bags.  But then you want a light bike that can handle panniers?  Panniers and heavy duty touring bikes kind of go together like peanut butter and jelly.  Light bikes do not have the ability to mount racks to hold panniers.  Light bikes cannot operate with heavy panniers hanging on them.  Pick either a light racing bike or a touring bike.  They are both bikes, but they are very different and do not really do the same things.  You want the same bike to win the Tour de France and ride the Rocky Mountain trail.

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