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51
Gear Talk / Re: Terry Touring Bikes - Coto Doñana Tour
« Last post by dkoloko on August 16, 2016, 05:00:03 pm »
I just can't determine the advantage of a custom bike at this point (having no experience), so seems foolish to spend the money on a bike I can't even test and hope it will be 250% better!

You'd be lucky if it was 50% better; you pay a lot for small improvements, custom or stock. You can expect the best values in the most popular models.
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Gear Talk / Re: Terry Touring Bikes - Coto Doñana Tour
« Last post by paddleboy17 on August 16, 2016, 02:24:02 pm »
When I looked at the bike specs, it does say 20.5 pounds without pedals.

If you can afford the trip, I think a factory trip might be in order.  I would be very surprised if you could not visit the factory and meet with someone.  You might not get Georgina Terry, but you should get the time and attention from someone competent.

As for the custom issue...

The Georgina Terry bike has a hand welded frame as opposed to a mass welded frame from Taiwan.  I don't remember the component mix on the LHT and what is currently on the bike you were looking at.  Plus I can't check them right now, so I am no help to you there.  There are a lot of poorly conceived and poorly executed touring bikes out there.  The LHT has a good reputation, but I have never ridden one.  And as I said earlier, I have no idea how Georgina Terry does her bike for 20.5 pounds.  I don't think that if you  bought a Gunnar and build it up yourself, that you would end up with a budget Georgina Terry bike.  You should probably look at Rivendell too (also Waterford frames).  They are on the west coast if that is more convenient for a road trip.

I have a Waterford frame.  I got it, because I had a poorly conceived and executed touring bike.  My original touring bike wiggled with panniers, and was a disaster.  It was a great dirt road ride though.  I can get my Waterford frame to flex, but it immediately dampens out all vibration.  I put good stuff on it, and it stickered out at $5200 (frame was $2300).  The ride is fabulous.

Most bike dealers do not carry touring bikes, so there may not be an LHT in your size to test ride either. 

I think Georgina Terry's set up is in New York, so if you can arrange the trip you should.  I know of someone who spent an afternoon at Co-Motion in Oregon, and someone who spent an afternoon with Seven in Massachusetts.  At one point, my buddies and I were going to make a road trip to Waterford in Wisconsin, but it never happened.
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Gear Talk / Re: Terry Touring Bikes - Coto Doñana Tour
« Last post by OutSpokyn1 on August 16, 2016, 01:53:22 pm »
I suspect the Terry weight is the complete bike minus pedals, but since she won't answer this question directly, it makes it impossible to compare to other bikes. Also, since I cannot test ride her bike and she is reluctant to answer any direct questions and says I should trust her, I am now reluctant to spend that kind of money on this bike, so I will most likely go with the LHT and save weight where I can in other ways. I just can't determine the advantage of a custom bike at this point (having no experience), so seems foolish to spend the money on a bike I can't even test and hope it will be 250% better! Maybe after this initial tour or sometime down the line, I will.
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Gear Talk / Re: Terry Touring Bikes - Coto Doñana Tour
« Last post by paddleboy17 on August 16, 2016, 01:14:19 pm »
Russ, thanks I had not really priced the Gunnar frames/forks, etc. I don't think the 480 frame will work for me (too big) but I should compare the specs with the Terry and LHT and also contact Gunnar, especially if I can save $$.

I compared the Gunnar and Terry websites for the bikes.  It appears Terry has Gunnar make them different sized bikes from the stock Gunnar bikes.  Terry does offer one smaller bike than the smallest Gunnar frame.  You might go custom with Gunnar and work with them to make a smaller frame similar to the smallest Terry frame.  Terry gives you its dimensions.  I'm sort of, kind of against the Terry bicycle simply because it is a Gunnar frame.  Terry even says its a Waterford (Gunnar) frame.  So why not skip the middle man (Terry) and buy the frame from its real maker (Waterford/Gunnar)?

Another person argues against buying a frame and building it yourself because the cost is usually more than buying it direct already built as a complete bike.  With the Terry it is very easy to see if this is true or not.  Terry says it is a Gunnar frame/fork.  Gunnar sells its frames direct to the public and lists its prices.  Price both the standard and custom options.  Terry also lists all the parts on the bike.  Simple to find all those parts on the internet and list their prices.  See if the totals work out right or wrong.  Biggest benefit for building it yourself is you get to pick every part yourself and get what you want.  Not accept a half-arse part you don't want.  Like 32 spokes instead of 36 for a loaded touring wheel.  ???  Or lower and better mid range gearing than what Terry offers.  An 11-36 cassette instead of the 11-34 Terry offers.  A 42-32-22 crankset instead of the 48-34-24 crankset Terry offers.  Wider handlebars.  Correct stem length.  Saddle that fits you.  By the time you pay to change all these parts on a stock bike, its probably better and cheaper to buy it right from the beginning.

I am pretty sure that all the custom frames are Waterford and all the stock frames are Gunnar.  So there is no custom Gunnar.  A Gunnar is always TIG welded, and a Waterford could be TIG welded or lugged (silver soldered).  And if the frames are the same size, and come from the same tube sets, and are both TIG welded, then why is the Gunnar less expensive and is it better than the Waterford frame?  Waterford frames are done one at a time, and Gunnar frames are done in batches.  This is sort of like comparing machine built wheels with custom wheels, done to the the same rim, spokes, and hubs.  Should you not know, there is more attention to details (like spoke tension) in a custom wheel.

I used to be an automotive engineer, so I will throw out an analogy.  Back when cars were more generic, a model might be available as a Ford, a Mercury, or a Lincoln.  So you could find a Ford with the same trim level as Lincoln, and the Ford would cost less than the Lincoln.  I was in engine engineering, so I can't speak to all of the differences between a Ford and a Lincoln, but a Lincoln had to always start on the first crank--a Ford was allowed to stall once.

I would bet that these are Waterford frames done to Georgina's specifications, which includes a smaller frame size than is available from Gunnar.

I want to know how she gets the weight down to 20.5 pounds (does include saddle, does not include pedals, does not include racks).  I think she is making assumptions about a woman's more petite weight, as I would not normally spec a 32 spoke wheel in a touring bike.  Georgina is a pretty straight shooter and has long held a good reputation.  I am more incline to trust Georgina, than I am to trust Trek or Specialized or any of the other big bike companies.

I think our original poster has a misguided perspective on weight.  The frame normally accounts for 4-5 pounds (for a quality steel frame) out of the total weight of the bike.  The rest of that weight comes from the components and wheels.  I would expect a steel touring bike to come in at 23-25 pounds (no racks or fenders).  I don't know why the LHT is 28 pounds.  Maybe the frames are heavier due to the using single butted tube sets able to dampen on frame flex on a loaded bike.  I seem to remember an LHT frame and fork is ~$700, so there has to be reasons why it is $1100 cheaper than a Gunnar.  Sure the welder in Wisconsin gets paid more than one in Taiwan, but shipping cost are down too.

A loaded touring bike is not going to be nimble and it is not going to be quick and that just needs to be accepted.  One can spend $1200 on an LHT and get this and $3500 on a custom bike and get that.  The weight of the load can be reduced by eating out and/or not camping.  Life is full of tradeoffs.
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Routes / Re: Adirondack Park Loop
« Last post by canalligators on August 16, 2016, 12:45:33 pm »
If you are willing to camp somewhere that's not in a designated campground, be aware that camping is generally allowed most places inside the preserve itself:
http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/41282.html

You'll be on your own for sanitary facilities, water, critter protection, etc.  Bear canister recommended, and required in some places.  Not to start a bear flame, but taking precautions with a canister or properly hung bear bag is a good idea.
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Routes / Re: Cycling from Utah to ACA HQ
« Last post by JMilyko on August 16, 2016, 10:47:27 am »
While we do not have a route with those specific endpoints, I suggest you take a look at the routes we have mapped to see which parts you could potentially use. You can view our interactive map and download an Overview Map (pdf) from the page below to see our network and how it intersects with itself:

https://www.adventurecycling.org/routes-and-maps/adventure-cycling-route-network/interactive-network-map/

The next step is to get in touch with the bicycle coordinators for the states in which you will be traveling through and need routing. Many have online resources as well as printed materials. Nearly every state publishes a bicycle map of some sort that they will send out for free and the coordinators often have more information they can distribute for no charge as well. And while the maps aren't as detailed as ours, they generally offer suggested roads for cycling through their state. Here is a link to the contact information for all of the bicycle coordinators:

http://www.pedbikeinfo.org/data/state.cfm

Once you have an idea of routing, you might want to solicit feedback and refinements back here on the forums.

Good luck and have fun planning!

Jennifer
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Routes / Cycling from Utah to ACA HQ
« Last post by CyclingSingle on August 16, 2016, 12:54:59 am »
My main question is does anyone know any back roads or save roads for bicycle touring from Utah all the way to Adventure Cycling Headquarters ? I am attending the Cycle Montana bicycle tour in June of 2017 and I am riding my touring bicycle from Provo Utah all the way to ACA HQ. What is the best maps to use to find my way to Missoula ? Should I try to find whatever I can through ACA maps or is Google Maps my best option to get to Missoula on time and safely ?

Thanks for any advice or hints.

Jake
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Routes / Re: Why does the PC route bypass Olympic Peninsula?
« Last post by adventurepdx on August 15, 2016, 12:39:01 pm »
What it boils down to is route selection is somewhat subjective. We take in as much information as we can, distill it to what we've decided are the most important factors and determine a route from there...What you have to remember for this route in particular is that when it was developed in the 80's, there was a lot of logging going on in the area and US 101 carried much of that traffic with little to no shoulders. Safety is a large factor in our selection process, it won out over other considerations.

Thanks, Jennifer. Yeah, I understand that there's a lot of factors that go into route selection, and no route is going to be perfect. And things change.

But I'm definitely more interested in why the ACA Pacific Coast Route stays so far inland in Washington and does not see the Pacific Coast AT ALL in that state (but does see the Puget Sound.) And I know that route selection and planning is a big process, but is there any plans to reevaluate the route, esp. through Washington? Maybe have it hit the coast towards Aberdeen? Or another possibility is that the Willapa Hills Trail should be complete from the coast (Raymond) to Chehalis in the next few years, which would give folks a traffic-free route. I understand that some people are freaked out by the Astoria Bridge, but there is a bus option that runs over the bridge, or they could detour to the Westport Ferry.
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Routes / Re: Why does the PC route bypass Olympic Peninsula?
« Last post by JMilyko on August 15, 2016, 10:37:31 am »
What it boils down to is route selection is somewhat subjective. We take in as much information as we can, distill it to what we've decided are the most important factors and determine a route from there. There will be some cyclists who like and agree with the routing we choose and others who dislike and disagree with what we choose. We listen and make changes or add new routes/alternatives/options where we can.

What you have to remember for this route in particular is that when it was developed in the 80's, there was a lot of logging going on in the area and US 101 carried much of that traffic with little to no shoulders. Safety is a large factor in our selection process, it won out over other considerations.

Thanks for the lively conversation. Personally, the Pacific Coast is on my bucket list of routes I'd like to ride one day. At this point, I don't know which routing I would choose, inland or peninsula. Something to think about in my daydreams!

Jennifer
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Classifieds / Salsa Fargo Ti Medium 2015 Excellent Condition $3000 OBO Many Extras
« Last post by jimguss on August 14, 2016, 05:56:47 pm »
I bought a Salsa Fargo Ti to use as a comfort road bike because of my back issues. Bike is in excellent shape and has only been on gravel twice. Here's the upgrade list:
Jones Bars (Wil include Salsa Cowbell bars and Sram Shifters)
Sram x9 flat bar shifters and sram brake levers
Budnitz Ti Seatpost
Brooks Cambrium C-17 Carved Saddle
Frame and loop bar bag.
Size Medium $3000 OBO including shipping in continental USA.
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