Author Topic: How to get the AC gps route to overlay the North American maps?  (Read 4717 times)

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Offline mootoxybb

Hello to anyone, I have a Garmin GPS60CSx with a micro sd card that has the North America maps.  I have the paper maps from AC and I have downloaded the GPS data for the Northern Tier route from the AC site.  My questions is.. Since my gps can only load 1000 waypoints and Section 1 map for this route has 365 waypoints, there obviously would not be enough room to load the entire route onto the gps.  I will not be taking a laptop with me to be able to upload the data along the route.  Can I download each map seperatly onto multible micro sd cards, take the cards with me on my trip and download each maps waypoints onto my gps?  If so will this system work and will it overlay onto the NT American maps from Garmin?  To better explain let's say I've downloaded all the waypoint data onto multible sd cards.  I would need to pull out the North American sd card and insert the waypoint sd card that I've previously downloaded and download that onto my gps unit.  Then reinstall the NA sd card so that the waypoints overlay onto the NA maps?  Not sure if I'm explaining this properly.  Basically I want to be able to see the waypoints on the North American maps that I already have knowing that I cannot load the entire route onto my gps.

Any help would be appreciated, I'm sure I'm making this more complicated than it is but I am not that familiar with the whole gps system and not the smartest person computer wise.  I do have Map Source from Garmin already loaded onto my computer.

Thanks for your help,
Bill

Offline Fred Hiltz

Re: How to get the AC gps route to overlay the North American maps?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2012, 10:36:53 pm »
Hi Bill. There's lots of memory for maps. You might get the states of the NT route from the City Navigator series into one 1GB micro-SD card, certainly into two of them.

Those cards can also store track logs, but AFAIK, the storage for 1,000 waypoints is separate, built-in memory. I know you can load that from a computer via a USB cable, but can you load waypoints from a micro-SD card? I see no mention of the latter method in the owner's manual or the reviews.

Either way, you can load overlapping segments of the route as you go along. Using Adventure Cycling GPS Data describes how and points to more details in several posts in this group. In a nutshell, you take a CD or a flash drive containing a simple program like G7ToWin, which runs right off the flash drive without installation, and sets of up to 1,000 waypoints. Find a bike shop or a friendly local cyclist who will let you reload your receiver.

Fred

Offline mdxix

Re: How to get the AC gps route to overlay the North American maps?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2012, 12:32:00 am »
Could you load the maps on the GPS unit without the waypoints? Do you need them on the GPS? Refer to the paper maps as needed along the way for points of interest.

Offline Fred Hiltz

Re: How to get the AC gps route to overlay the North American maps?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2012, 06:45:25 am »
Yes, you could. You would give up the navigation feature, though. The only advantages over the paper map then would be the marker that shows where you are on the map and of course the constant visibility on your handlebar, rain or shine.

I'd really want the waypoints, as they are free and so easy to install. Then you know how far to the next turn and which way to turn. The one time they saved my bacon was late on a drizzly, darkening afternoon when I looked down and saw that I had overshot the campground entrance. Who knows how far I might have gone?

Fred

Offline mdxix

Re: How to get the AC gps route to overlay the North American maps?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2012, 12:19:03 pm »
You would give up the navigation feature, though.
That is curious Fred. As far as I can tell, the GPS will navigate based on the route (and route points), irrelevant of the waypoints it has scattered on the map. Do you think it works differently?

I tested the following for the Green Mountains loop. I stripped the file from all waypoints as follows:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30524605/ACA/GM01v003.gpx

I loaded the file on my Edge 705 and started navigating R01010 as shown in the following image:



In the two panels to the left, you see the navigation route, distance to next, and prompts at turns. In this case, the Edge 705 shows only straight lines. But that is a different topic that we discussed at length.

In the right panel, the list of waypoints is empty.

Is your experience different?

Offline Fred Hiltz

Re: How to get the AC gps route to overlay the North American maps?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2012, 07:45:17 pm »
My experience is different, but only because my older GPSR calculates its own route from the ACA waypoints, rather than using the route that the computer creates.

However, I took mdxix's question, "Could you load the maps on the GPS unit without the waypoints?" to mean using the City Navigator maps without loading any ACA files, given the OP's concern with the limited waypoint storage in the 60CSx.

Mdxix, could you clarify, please?

Fred

Offline mdxix

Re: How to get the AC gps route to overlay the North American maps?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2012, 09:44:24 pm »
Mdxix, could you clarify, please?
My suggestion is to put the ACA route on the GPS unit without the waypoints. You can see the route, navigate, and get prompts for directions.

Fred & Bill, can you try loading the Green Mountains file on your GPS? It is at
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30524605/ACA/GM01v003.gpx

I have stripped this file from any waypoints. Can your GPS navigate its routes? Does it show you that it did not add any waypoints?

Let me clarify with some details. ACA files have two main sections in them:
  • The top section has a list of waypoints. These are scattered all over the map. They are independent of each other. They are not connected to each other in any way. They are points of interest. These are wrapped with <wpt> tags. They have the coordinates and name for each waypoint as the following example:
      <wpt lat="44.4690527" lon="-73.1807019">
        <name>R01020</name>
        <cmt>Holiday Inn</cmt>
        <desc>Holiday Inn</desc>
        <sym>Lodging</sym>
        <extensions>...
        </extensions>
      </wpt>
  • The second part of the file has routes (within <rte> tag) connected by route points (within <rtept> tag), not waypoints. They appear as follows in the file:
      <rte>
        <name>R01010</name>
        <extensions>...
        </extensions>
        <rtept lat="44.4745800" lon="-73.2195100">
          <name>R01080</name>
          <cmt>King St/Bike Path</cmt>

As far as I can tell, when you choose a route to navigate, you are choosing it from the second part of the file, not the first. I know this because I can completely delete the entire first part of the file and still navigate just as well. Only the GPS memory is not exhausted by waypoints. See the screen images I posted earlier.

Does the same happen to you with the sample Green Mountains file?

Offline mdxix

Re: How to get the AC gps route to overlay the North American maps?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2012, 10:07:22 pm »
rather than using the route that the computer creates.
To clarify, the sample Green Mountains GPX file I provided was not calculated or created by a computer. For simplicity, I did the following:
  • Downloaded the file from ACA Green Mountains route web site
  • Opened the file in text editor
  • Deleted the entire first section for the file that contains waypoints within <wpt> tags
  • Saved & loaded on the GPS unit. Voil√†.

Offline Fred Hiltz

Re: How to get the AC gps route to overlay the North American maps?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2012, 03:41:12 pm »
For others looking in, I should explain that Rami (mdxix) and I are exploring some undocumented behavior of certain Garmin software and certain Garmin GPSRs. We do not know how widely this applies, and of course Garmin could change it at any time.

The first part, roughly half, of a GPX file created by MapSource v16 contains a collection of wpt elements called waypoints. The second half contains the routes as rte elements. Each route includes an ordered sequence of rtept elements, which repeat the information in the wpt elements. We call these route points; MapSource names them Map Points on its display.

MapSource does not permit moving or editing Map Points, although one can delete them.

Now, on to what we have found.

To clarify, the sample Green Mountains GPX file I provided was not calculated or created by a computer.

Sure it was, probably by my copy of MapSource, or another volunteer's, maybe by Jennifer's at ACA.

Fred & Bill, can you try loading the Green Mountains file on your GPS? It is at
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30524605/ACA/GM01v003.gpx

I have stripped this file from any waypoints. Can your GPS navigate its routes? Does it show you that it did not add any waypoints?

... As far as I can tell, when you choose a route to navigate, you are choosing it from the second part of the file, not the first. I know this because I can completely delete the entire first part of the file and still navigate just as well. Only the GPS memory is not exhausted by waypoints. See the screen images I posted earlier.

Does the same happen to you with the sample Green Mountains file?

My old GPS-III+ ignores the route points entirely, showing no waypoints and no routes.

My GPSMAP 60CS seems to work like your unit, showing the routes and the route points, but no waypoints. It does navigate the route, in both off-road and follow-the-road modes. No editing, though, except to delete route points, just as in MapSource.

I took it one step further to see what the 60CS does to a route when a waypoint on it is present and is moved by editing in the GPSR but the route is not edited. When asked to navigate the route, the unit follows the change. I'd summarize it by saying that the 60CS uses waypoints info when present, otherwise uses the route points.

The Green Mountains Loop is small enough to fit in Bill's 60CSx without any of these manipulations. I just tried the same procedure on the Northern Tier, which is his concern. Indeed, the waypoint limit of 1,000 is not a problem because there are no waypoints. However, the route limit of 50 in my 60CS was reached. Bill, do you know the route limit on your receiver? If it's 100, and if your receiver will navigate from the route points like Rami's and mine, you could do this in one load. You would give up the ability to edit the route on the road.

My own choice would be to keep the waypoints anyway, maintaining the ability to edit, as reloading once or twice on a 3-month ride is not that large a hurdle. But it could be for you.

Fred

Offline mdxix

Re: How to get the AC gps route to overlay the North American maps?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2012, 08:54:00 pm »
Each route includes an ordered sequence of rtept elements, which repeat the information in the wpt elements.
Route points in ACA files repeat some waypoints. Not all waypoints are present in routes. They are points of interest or reference. For example, in the Green Mountains file, near the beginning of route R01010, near its first route point R01080, there are three waypoints that are not part of the route at all: R0104A (hotel), R01040 (bicycle shop), R01030 (bicycle shop).

To clarify, the sample Green Mountains GPX file I provided was not calculated or created by a computer.
Sure it was, probably by my copy of MapSource, or another volunteer's, maybe by Jennifer's at ACA.
Good catch ;) I meant to say that I did not further process this file, create new content, or use a mapping tool. I simply deleted the waypoints using a text editor.

I took it one step further to see what the 60CS does to a route when a waypoint on it is present and is moved by editing in the GPSR but the route is not edited. When asked to navigate the route, the unit follows the change. I'd summarize it by saying that the 60CS uses waypoints info when present, otherwise uses the route points.
The Edge 705 behaved kept the route intact. I edited the waypoint far off course, and that did not change the route.

What happens when you change a waypoint that does not belong to a route, such as R0104A?

Offline mdxix

Re: How to get the AC gps route to overlay the North American maps?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2012, 08:59:37 pm »
Indeed, the waypoint limit of 1,000 is not a problem because there are no waypoints. However, the route limit of 50 in my 60CS was reached. Bill, do you know the route limit on your receiver? If it's 100, and if your receiver will navigate from the route points like Rami's and mine, you could do this in one load. You would give up the ability to edit the route on the road.
Bill, here is the NT file stripped of all waypoints. I created it for testing. Feel free to use it as needed. Please send us feedback how it worked out for you.

For your trip, remember to download the latest file.

Offline Fred Hiltz

Re: How to get the AC gps route to overlay the North American maps?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2012, 09:45:50 pm »
I took it one step further to see what the 60CS does to a route when a waypoint on it is present and is moved by editing in the GPSR but the route is not edited. When asked to navigate the route, the unit follows the change. I'd summarize it by saying that the 60CS uses waypoints info when present, otherwise uses the route points.
The Edge 705 behaved kept the route intact. I edited the waypoint far off course, and that did not change the route.

What happens when you change a waypoint that does not belong to a route, such as R0104A?

As we would hope, the route does not change. Thank goodness!

Fred

Offline mootoxybb

Re: How to get the AC gps route to overlay the North American maps?
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2013, 01:51:18 pm »
Fred, just wanted to thank you for all your help and useful information.  Unfortunately I had left for my trip before I saw some of the last posts.  I wish I could of tried deleting the waypoints idea.  I loaded the ACA maps to my GPS capacity of 1000 waypoints and just winged it from there and everything worked out just fine like it does in life.
By the way the Northern tier tour was anything short of completely awesome.  49 days 4126 miles of pure bliss.
Thank you everyone and sorry about the late reply.  :)
Now I'm going for the Great Divide this year.