Author Topic: Water bottles and bisephenol-A  (Read 5515 times)

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Offline WesternFlyer

Water bottles and bisephenol-A
« on: May 27, 2008, 01:43:19 am »
What are peoples thought on bisephenol-A and other chemicals leaching from your water bottles into your drinking water while on the road?  Is it a concern or do people even care?  I was searching for a new bottle online and REI had 2 or 3 pages of bisephenol-A free bottles prominently listed.  This plastic additive, which seems to be in lots of plastics we come in contact with every day, may have some pretty serious health effects.

I was looking for a Sigg 1.5 liter bottle and found Sigg is pretty much backordered to Switzerland on many of their products.  Sigg seems to have caught the publics attention in a big way on Oprah where Julia Roberts held up a Sigg water bottle for all the world to see. Sigg claims 0.0% leaching of any chemicals on all of their bottles.

I use a Soma Crystal water bottle for around town riding.  For longer rides I add a Swiss Katadyn Micro Filter water bottle, which pretty much turns tap water from most any source into store bought taste and will filter stream water for bacteria and cysts.  It can even be upgraded for third-world use.  If you normally buy bottled water while on the road it pays for itself, and keeps a lot of plastic out of the landfills.  Both of the above bottles claim to be bisephenol-A free.
As a note my wife uses stainless steel water bottles for her bike.


Western Flyer

A wheel spins in a circle.
The still point at the center
gives it direction.
Be still.

   "The Parents' Tao Te Ching"
Western Flyer

We must ride light and swift.  It is a long road ahead.

King Theoden

Offline whittierider

Water bottles and bisephenol-A
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2008, 03:27:17 am »
I've suspected the problem for years, but have never seen any numbers.  To minimize the danger, I store the bottles with water in them, then pour that water down the drain and rinse and refill before going out for a ride.  That way most of the chemicals that come out of the plastic will go into the water that gets thrown out.  We also keep the bottles for many years, and I expect the rate of leaching is inversely proportional to some power of the age, so they get safer as they get older.


Offline Fred Hiltz

Water bottles and bisephenol-A
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2008, 09:16:47 am »
After some early studies found estrogen-mimicking effects in animals when directly injected into the blood stream (but not when ingested), the media picked up the story and over-hyped it as usual. Thus the power of advertising "bisphenol-free." Later studies question the early results. Bisphenol does leach from plastics into hot liquids, but not appreciably into cold liquids.

The Wikipedia article is a good summary with numerous references to the primary literature.

Fred

This message was edited by FredHiltz on 5-27-08 @ 5:17 AM

Offline driftlessregion

Water bottles and bisephenol-A
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2008, 11:44:13 pm »
" We also keep the bottles for many years, and I expect the rate of leaching is inversely proportional to some power of the age, so they get safer as they get older."

Or, the older the bottle, the more is leaching. Me, I'm going with brand new bottles. Any research on this?


Offline WesternFlyer

Water bottles and bisephenol-A
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2008, 03:17:25 am »
Well thats the problem isnt it?  There is not very much research available to the general public.  I am quite suspecting of Wikipedia in general.  I would trust it to tell me, which is shorter the Trans Am or Northerntier, but not which is more beautiful or has safer riding.  I read the article that Fred cited on bisephenol-A, and had as many or more questions after reading it.

I know the plastic bottle industry suggests not reusing PETA bottles that bottled water generally comes it because it can become abraded with cleaning and leach potentially hazardous chemicals into the refilled bottles.  Maybe they are just trying to sell more designer water! Here is a website for the American Chemical Council.  See if it make you feel any more informed or feeling safer???  http://www.factsonplastic.com


Western Flyer

A wheel spins in a circle.
The still point at the center
gives it direction.
Be still.

   "The Parents' Tao Te Ching"
Western Flyer

We must ride light and swift.  It is a long road ahead.

King Theoden

Offline bogiesan

Water bottles and bisephenol-A
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2008, 10:10:03 am »
Perfect solution: Use glass bottles.

See the wiki for some objective information about this silliness. You
get exposed to more volatile, reactive, immediately harmful, and
absorptive contaminants of one kind or another just mowing your yard
or lubricating your chain. Ever seen what that organic orange peel
solvent does to plastic? The wax in White Lightning is a petrochemical,
contributing to global warming, making us more dependent on foreign
oil, so using a chain lube really messes with any claims you can make
that biking reduces your carbon footprint.

david boise ID


go, ristretto, FCP/AE
"Read the manual."
I play go. I use Macintosh. Of course I ride a recumbent

Offline bktourer1

Water bottles and bisephenol-A
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2008, 05:29:30 pm »
Break down an look at Klean Kanteen.  Beautiful stainless steel.  put in dishwasher to clean and no aftertaste. Several diffferent sizes.  teh 27oz. fit in standard cages and come with sip caps.

Ed


Offline WesternFlyer

Water bottles and bisephenol-A
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2008, 01:00:58 pm »
My wife uses both a Klean Kanteen and a Sigg bottle.  She just competed in her first ever triathlon in eastern Oregon (temperature in the 90s).  She said she had to suck pretty hard to get the water out, but she felt it didnt slow her down.  When it is really hot I like to be able to squirt water into the top of my helmet and down the back of my neck.  Perhaps a dedicated plastic bottle for the hot days.  The water will dribble out on its own from both the Klean and Sigg.

Another issue is unless you can stand metal to metal scraping and clanging you need non-metallic bottle cages.

And for the race:  Silver metal in her age group.  Not bad for a 58 year old grandmother in her first race!!!


Western Flyer

It was to such a land I rode.
       L Eiseley
Western Flyer

We must ride light and swift.  It is a long road ahead.

King Theoden

Offline staehpj1

Water bottles and bisephenol-A
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2008, 01:12:36 pm »
I don't worry about it.  I doubt that it is that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.


Offline DaveB

Water bottles and bisephenol-A
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2008, 01:22:10 pm »
Almost all bicycle water bottles are LDPE (low density polyethylene) and a few are HDPE (high density polyethylene).  Neither have bisphenyl-A in them in any amount.

This message was edited by DaveB on 7-1-08 @ 9:22 AM

Offline whittierider

Water bottles and bisephenol-A
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2008, 01:53:29 pm »
I missed this the first time around.
Quote
Quote
We also keep the bottles for many years, and I expect the rate of leaching is inversely proportional to some power of the age, so they get safer as they get older.

Or, the older the bottle, the more is leaching.  Me, I'm going with brand new bottles.

No, the older, the more the stuff that leaches out is gone.  It's like the new-car smell from chemicals coming out of the upholstery, carpeting, dash board, etc., which have been found to cause cancer.  When the car is older, no more comes out into the air you breathe.  Newer is not safer in that regard.


Offline WesternFlyer

Water bottles and bisephenol-A
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2008, 04:24:50 pm »
I was going to let this topic disappear into the deep ACA archives after the FDA came out officially stating that BPA posses no health risk, and the fact you would be hard pressed,  today, to find any brand name bike bottle that doesnt openly claim to be BPA free.  But in todays Oregonian (Portlands daily newspaper) is an Associated Press story stating the FDAs science when put under peer review was found to be faulty.  It went on to say Canada has banned BPA in baby bottles.

I also know that bottled water clearly states in the fine print not to refill them, and this is supposedly because the rate of leaching increases with the handling of the bottles.  It seems logical that the rate of leaching at some point would have to decrease as the bottles are reused over time.  

Anecdotally: I took a long day ride last weekend and couldnt find my fancy Swiss water bottle so I filled a no-name plastic bottle I was given at the Seattle to Portland, STP, charity ride last summer.  The taste of plastic was very strong.

Western Flyer
Western Flyer

We must ride light and swift.  It is a long road ahead.

King Theoden

Offline bogiesan

Water bottles and bisephenol-A
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2008, 07:51:23 pm »
> I also know that bottled water clearly states in the fine print not to
refill them, and this is supposedly because the rate of leaching
increases with the handling of the bottles.  It seems logical that the
rate of leaching at some point would have to decrease as the bottles
are reused over time.   <

There are many valid and some mythic reasons not to refill such bottles
but the most important is avoiding bacterial contamination, not BPA.

> Anecdotally: I took a long day ride last weekend and couldnt find my
fancy Swiss water bottle so I filled a no-name plastic bottle I was given
at the Seattle to Portland, STP, charity ride last summer.  The taste of
plastic was very strong. <

The taste of plastic implies nothing about the possible presence of
BPA.

david boise ID

go, ristretto, FCP/AE
"Read the manual."
I play go. I use Macintosh. Of course I ride a recumbent

Offline WesternFlyer

Water bottles and bisephenol-A
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2008, 02:47:36 am »
I meant this thread to be somewhat lighthearted reflection of a greater nation wide controversy.  I dont think this forum is the place for an in depth deconstruction of the plastics industrys footprint on the American food chain.  And I am certainly not an expert or even a well studied observer.  I am generally concerned about the chemical soup we ingest on a daily basis.  

I started out trying to buy a 1.5 liter Sigg aluminum water bottle for my bicycle and found I couldnt get one because Julia Roberts showed up on the Oprah TV show with a Sigg bottle in hand and told everybody to get one, and apparently they all did.  This happened at the same time as the State of California came out with studies linking BPA to various maladies in children and babies.  Soon a perfect storm was brewing.  If you dont believe me just look up water bottles on the REI website. http://www.rei.com/

I would have never brought it up here except it was effecting my bicycling.  So I apologize if I caused any undue worries, or my presentation was mostly anecdotal with little scientific footnoting.  


Western Flyer

A wise traveler has no fixed plans and is not intent upon arriving.
           Lao Tzu
Western Flyer

We must ride light and swift.  It is a long road ahead.

King Theoden

Offline Westinghouse

Water bottles and bisephenol-A
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2008, 01:08:52 pm »
To tell you the truth, I have never given the make up of my water bottles any thought. When I am crossing long sretches of desert I keep my water bottles topped off as much as possible, and I drink. Other than that I am not concerned.