Author Topic: selling atlantis (too big) need suggestions pls for a versatile allrounder  (Read 3575 times)

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Offline canali

drats...was seeing a specialist bike fitter today (guru bikes dealer in vancouver bc where I live) and it was determined my atlantis too long (53", pinstripped, honjo fenders, dynamo light,... the works...only 300km on it too)...anyhoo so I am in search of a replacement.

ideally i'd like to get a bike that can be used for both loaded touring if need be but is also spritely enough (even wheel change, remove back rack for less weight) could be a comfortable randonneur, too.

......some ideas....marinoni turismo....gunnar sport (use a trailer instead of panniers for heavier riding)...or gunnar  crosshairs (does higher bottom bracket really make that much of a diff?...and is there that much of a diff? in models?)...or for $300 more get a tweaked waterford gunnar....

cheaper ideas: salsa casserolle....or vaya....or specialized tricross (have only started to research both these bikes)

other thoughts?
cheers and thanks
joe aka canali
vancouver bc

Offline alfonso

Re: selling atlantis (too big) need suggestions pls for a versatile allrounder
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2010, 05:04:27 am »
I wouldn't be too quick to get rid of an Atlantis after 300 km. I'd ride it for 6 mths or a year and see how it feels, especially after some long rides.

Offline Bikermike123

Re: selling atlantis (too big) need suggestions pls for a versatile allrounder
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2010, 07:37:09 pm »
Sorry to hear that beautiful Atlantis is too long for you.  I own a Gunnar Sport and can heartily recommend the bike.
It is both quite spritely and comfortable for all day riding.  I toured on it pulling a trailer this summer and the bike performed just fine.
Good luck finding a new ride.  Test rides are your best friend.

Mike

Offline Pat Lamb

Re: selling atlantis (too big) need suggestions pls for a versatile allrounder
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2010, 10:49:12 pm »
Have to agree with alfonso.  Grant (at Rivendell) has different ideas from conventional wisdom on how a bike should fit.  As long as you've got a long enough stem, you may be able to ride the Atlantis forever, despite what a racer boy fitter would say.

So unless you've got some sort of pain from riding the bike, I'd be inclined to say, "Thank you very much" and keep riding!

Offline whittierider

Re: selling atlantis (too big) need suggestions pls for a versatile allrounder
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2010, 01:24:53 am »

Quote
and it was determined my atlantis too long (53[cm]...)

Like the top tube is too long?  By how much?  I do not agree one bit with the knee-cap-over-pedal-spindle dogma that has been hailed as truth even though it never was more than an arbitrary starting point.  It has been nice to see some major people in the industry say it was a mistake from the beginning.  See:

Keith Bontrager
Dr. James Martin, Ph.D. in Exercise Science  (12th paragraph)
Gary Klein

You might just need to move the seat forward to reduce the reach.  You might find you like it.  It typically helps straighten out your back, and it will be more conducive to a good spin.  For many years I was unhappy with the fact that I couldn't get the seat far enough forward relative to the pedals.  I wanted the pedals farther back, relatively speaking.  I finally found satisfaction with Bontrager's reversible seat posts which let you put the clamping mechanism in the front instead of only the back like most seat posts.  Now I can be comfortable on the bike all day.  My whole family now prefers the reversed seat posts.

Offline ducnut

Re: selling atlantis (too big) need suggestions pls for a versatile allrounder
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2010, 11:02:55 am »
As others noted, I wouldn't give up too quickly.

You didn't mention what length stem you have, seat positioning, or what prompted the visit to a fitter.

There are stems as short as 60mm and reverse seatposts available. They may not be the perfect solutions in a fitters mind, but, they could possibly keep you from starting over and taking a loss on the bike.

I wouldn't go by what one person says about fit. Explore your options until you arrive at a fit that works for you. I've had two fit sessions by two different fitters, neither worked for me. I got there on my own. It may take some time and miles, but, don't give up.

Offline canali

Re: selling atlantis (too big) need suggestions pls for a versatile allrounder
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2010, 11:59:16 am »
my top tube for the 53" is 54.5....i'm using a nitto dirt drop to shoot the bars upwards (80mm but at a huge slant upwards) vs a traditional 80 mm stem...seems my bikefit suggests max toptube of 53....

don't wish to move saddle forward too much as a bikefitter for guru bikes says you're using your knees more instead of your more powerful hips (which grant peterson of rivendell agreed with: he also suggests trying to work with it and that a 53" should be ok).

i might try swapping out the  nitto noodles with moustache bars to bring the bars closer to me, thus that way i could keep the seat positioned back better (it's midway right now on the seat clamp) to use the hips/better pedalling positions as grant suggested.

...and yeah...i' haven't been out much cycling this season,....so maybe it's also just my body feeling 'out of position' for the first while.

RE: '' I finally found satisfaction with Bontrager's reversible seat posts which let you put the clamping mechanism in the front instead of only the back like most seat posts"...I will have to investigate that seat post...thanks!

« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 01:11:39 pm by canali »

Offline staehpj1

Re: selling atlantis (too big) need suggestions pls for a versatile allrounder
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2010, 12:07:15 pm »
Have to agree with alfonso.  Grant (at Rivendell) has different ideas from conventional wisdom on how a bike should fit.  As long as you've got a long enough stem, you may be able to ride the Atlantis forever, despite what a racer boy fitter would say.

So unless you've got some sort of pain from riding the bike, I'd be inclined to say, "Thank you very much" and keep riding!


I like my frames much smaller than Rivendell recommends.  The Rivendell recommended fit is generally two full sizes bigger than I personally prefer.

In spite of my bias toward smaller frames I have to say that many of their customers like the fit that Rivendell recommends, so since you have the bike already I'd say give it a chance.  You just might find you like it.

OTOH, if it is too big even by the Rivendell sizing charts, then yeah replace it for sure.

Offline canali

Re: selling atlantis (too big) need suggestions pls for a versatile allrounder
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2010, 01:14:05 pm »
and no the suggested fit for me was either a 51 (53cm top tube) or a 53 (54.5 toptube)...bike fit later tells me i need a max 53 toptube......

 I'll fiddle with swapping out bars (from noodles to moustache...

.maybe even those butterfly/trekking bars...look weird, i have a pair but they're VERY versatile...only wish they weren't so wide (59cm!!)...

Offline whittierider

Re: selling atlantis (too big) need suggestions pls for a versatile allrounder
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2010, 02:12:23 pm »
Quote
don't wish to move saddle forward too much as a bikefitter for guru bikes says you're using your knees more instead of your more powerful hips
I have to disagree with him.  I have my seat way forward (with seatpost reversed), and my hip muscles definitely feel a good workout.  They can get very tired-- at least as tired as my quads.

I think the fitter is just parroting things he has heard.  Why not just try it and find out if you like it.  If you don't, you can always put it back the way it was.  I'm much happier with my setup since I quit listening to the self-proclaimed experts (there are other experts who contradict them anyway) and did my own experimenting.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 02:18:24 pm by whittierider »

Offline paddleboy17

Re: selling atlantis (too big) need suggestions pls for a versatile allrounder
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2010, 03:40:16 pm »
I am mostly with whittierider on this one.

You will be lucky to get 50% of your investment back on the bike that you have.  Unless you don't care about money, I should think you would be motivated to try and salvage the ride that you have.  The bike guru using his methodology can only get you in the ballpark.  At some point it is up to you to determine what you really need.

Feel free to build a gage so that you get things back to the settings provided by the bike guru.

For the record, I run my saddles a little ahead of the recommended position as I find that it places less stress on my knees.
Danno

Offline canali

Re: selling atlantis (too big) need suggestions pls for a versatile allrounder
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2010, 04:35:04 pm »
thanks...actually even grant (of rivendell) in his reply to me on this inquiry suggested a better riding position is always more back than front for that very purpose (using hips vs knees)...of course this is all personal by one's mechanics, but in general you get my drift i'm sure....

and yes I will continue to tweak...maybe go back to moustache bar...or trekking...or albatross

thanks everyone.....


Offline ducnut

Re: selling atlantis (too big) need suggestions pls for a versatile allrounder
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2010, 08:24:33 pm »
Tri bike geometry places the saddle way forward, compared to a tour bike. Many tri people slide their saddle all the way forward, on top of that. Then, many of them ride even further forward on the nose of the saddle. This maximizes usage of the hamstrings and glutes. Yes, it's primarily to save the quads for the run. But, many of these people are putting out huge watts for 112 miles at time. Reading many training logs, you'll find these competitors regularly putting in as many as 170 miles, on their training rides, on their tri bikes, multiple times per week.

Having a forward seating position does not hurt knees, too low of seat height will. As one slides the seat forward, the distance to the bottom bracket is reduced. So, a seat height adjustment will be in order.

Like "whittierider", I run my seat all the way forward. This rotates the hips up under your body and allows your weight to rest on your sit bones. Having a bike stretched out causes you to ride on your perrineal region-not good.

I'd still suggest working off the components already on the bike. Utilize the adjustments and try different positions. Throwing parts at the bike without experimenting with what you've already got just leads to further confusion.

Offline canali

Re: selling atlantis (too big) need suggestions pls for a versatile allrounder
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2010, 09:13:29 pm »
yet if you're too far forward you also can place too much upper body weight unnecessarily on one's hand/arms/shoulders too, thus causing more fatigue and strain....

it's always a fine balance given the kind of ride (and goals) that you're seeking, as per peter white suggest in his famous and respected article 'How to fit a bicycle' see the 'fore/aft position'...open and scroll down.
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

whittierider:
RE: where to buy couldn't find that interesting sounding ''bontrager reversible seat post'' you mentioned below (couldn't find it on bontragers' website... in the link provided here....http://www.bontrager.com/products/components/seatposts/ i could be blind of course)
"finally found satisfaction with Bontrager's reversible seat posts which let you put the clamping mechanism in the front instead of only the back like most seat posts.  Now I can be comfortable on the bike all day.  My whole family now prefers the reversed seat posts."


Tri bike geometry places the saddle way forward, compared to a tour bike. Many tri people slide their saddle all the way forward, on top of that. Then, many of them ride even further forward on the nose of the saddle. This maximizes usage of the hamstrings and glutes. Yes, it's primarily to save the quads for the run. But, many of these people are putting out huge watts for 112 miles at time. Reading many training logs, you'll find these competitors regularly putting in as many as 170 miles, on their training rides, on their tri bikes, multiple times per week.

Having a forward seating position does not hurt knees, too low of seat height will. As one slides the seat forward, the distance to the bottom bracket is reduced. So, a seat height adjustment will be in order.

Like "whittierider", I run my seat all the way forward. This rotates the hips up under your body and allows your weight to rest on your sit bones. Having a bike stretched out causes you to ride on your perrineal region-not good.

I'd still suggest working off the components already on the bike. Utilize the adjustments and try different positions. Throwing parts at the bike without experimenting with what you've already got just leads to further confusion.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 09:32:12 pm by canali »

Offline whittierider

Re: selling atlantis (too big) need suggestions pls for a versatile allrounder
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2010, 10:42:31 pm »

Quote
whittierider:
RE: where to buy couldn't find that interesting sounding ''bontrager reversible seat post'' you mentioned below (couldn't find it on bontragers' website... in the link provided here....http://www.bontrager.com/products/components/seatposts/ i could be blind of course)

That one may be reversible too, but I haven't seen it in person.  On that page, if you click on the "Race Lite," you'll see one that looks like what we're using.  It's probably not the exact one since I put an aluminum one on for clamping a seat post rack (something I ended up not doing), but I did the same one with the carbon seat post that came with the bike.



Here's mine, where you can clearly see that it is on backwards, with my nearly 2-gallon seat bag for light credit-card touring and the XLab holder for two additional bottles behind the seat: