Author Topic: 17th Cyclist Killed In Tampa Bay/Manatee  (Read 21496 times)

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Offline pptouring

Re: 12th Cyclist Killed In Tampa
« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2011, 06:58:03 pm »
Links? Verification? Where, when, how? I posted an article with reference when I posted about the cycling fatality in Vero Beach. Mine is checkable and verifiable, and yours are not, yet.

Didn't think I had to prove it, but here you go!!

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/bicyclist-dies-in-st-petersburg-after-being-struck-by-two-cars/1157214

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/bicyclist-killed-in-palm-harbor-crash/1157846

Offline Tourista829

Re: 12th Cyclist Killed In Tampa
« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2011, 09:49:18 am »
So now we are up to 14 fatalities, in Tampa, within the last year. I agree, riding at night, even with proper lighting is dangerous, in Tampa, without lights is a suicide mission. We do have many poor or homeless people, who use their bikes for transportation. I would like to see if we can get more lighting into the hands of those who can not afford lighting. There should be a law put in place, like New York State has, that would make it illegal to use a cell phone, while driving. Like cyclist, drivers should only be driving. In Europe, most Europeans, concentrate on driving only. I would also like to see a law in place that there would be an automatic year suspension, of ones drivers license, if convicted of running over a cyclist or pedestrian. It might make some people think. Checking auto insurance rates, when we moved from Ft. Lauderdale to Tampa the rates did not change. Our insurance agent said it was as dangerous to drive in Tampa as it was in South Florida.

Offline indyfabz

Re: 12th Cyclist Killed In Tampa
« Reply #62 on: March 18, 2011, 11:21:07 am »
There should be a law put in place, like New York State has, that would make it illegal to use a cell phone, while driving. Like cyclist, drivers should only be driving. In Europe, most Europeans, concentrate on driving only. I would also like to see a law in place that there would be an automatic year suspension, of ones drivers license, if convicted of running over a cyclist or pedestrian.

I assume you mean if the driver was at fault.  I mean, what if a pedestrian or cyclist were to simply dart out in front of you while driving.  Surely you don't think you should lose you license for a year.

And a cell phone ban does not work if it is not enforced.  We have had one here in Philadelphia for over a year now.  And across the river in NJ, there has been a ban in place for years.  Yet, during my 1.5 mile walk to work, I routinely see at least a dozen people with their hands on their phones doing one thing or another.  (The law prohibits you from operating the handset unless pulled over in a non-driving lane with the car in neutral.)  The city does a terrible job of enforcing the law, so people don't see much risk.  It's just like jaywalking.  So what? I won't get a ticket.  It's my understanding that New York does a much better job of enforcement.

Offline Tourista829

Re: 12th Cyclist Killed In Tampa
« Reply #63 on: March 18, 2011, 12:04:30 pm »
Only driver at fault, something has to be done. It probably wouldn't do any good since not one driver was yet to be charged. There is an aggressiveness down her. On the highway, I am in the far right lane, on a three lane part of I-75, doing 65mph in a 70mph and cars are flashing me. Where am I going to pull over, on the shoulder? Everyone is in a hurry. I saw a few weeks ago, a car hit a barrier taking out two cars. She had passed me on the Howard Franklin Bridge and yes, she was texting, driving fast, and irratic. Young female in her late teens or early twenties. I thought there was an accident waiting to happen. Five minutes later BAM.

Offline Westinghouse

Re: 12th Cyclist Killed In Tampa
« Reply #64 on: March 18, 2011, 02:28:15 pm »
In the two articles I read only one cyclist was verified as not having lights or helmet, but if the other was a poor transient type, I will assume he did not have lights and a helmet either. I have seen quite a few homeless people on bikes around my hometown, and come to think of it, most all did not have lights or a helmet.

HOWEVER, in some conditions, no lights at night is irrelevant. It is a legal technicality, and has nothing to do with collision. If the street lights allow perfectly clear vision, and they press the "no lights at night" issue, I would suspect something is wrong. If the area is pitch dark, the moon is concealed behind clouds, and there is not sufficient room on the road for cycling, the cyclist with no lights is where he should not be, but headlights of cars coming from the rear give plenty of time of visual contact even in the darkest nights.

I use a blinking red light in the back, and a white light in the front.

Many more people die in car wrecks than on bicycles, and many of those deaths are caused or added to by head injuries. You would think that driving a car would require a helmet as much as fastened seat belts, but there is no law requiring it. Why is that? Nearly 1 million people had to be killed in car / truck collisions before they made a law requiring seat belts to be fastened at all times when driving. How many more must be slaughtered before drivers are required to wear protective head gear of some kind.


According to the articles, these guys turned in front of moving vehicles. I could have done that lots of times myself, except that the legal ROW was mine, and the moving vehicles were violating it aggressively. That's what I'm talking about.

I am too safe and careful a cyclist for anything like that to happen to me. I don't pull out in front of anyone.

Robenne: Thanks for the links. I just like to see these things for myself. That's why I posted the news article about the cyclist who was killed in Vero Beach. I did not want to give the impression that I might have been giving inaccurate or dishonest information.

Those two men were on bicycles, and were technically cyclists, but not cyclists like us. I don't think so anyway. I have cycled with people who ride bikes but who were not really "cyclists." The way they cycled and the way I cycled was way different. Cycling isn't rocket science, but there is definitely more to it than many people might understand.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 02:39:00 pm by Westinghouse »

Offline Tourista829

Re: 12th Cyclist Killed In Tampa
« Reply #65 on: March 18, 2011, 04:25:58 pm »
Westinghouse, where I live, few people signal, do not stop when they make right turns on a red, and run red lights. I was not a proponent of red light cameras and still not because they are not effective. I wish they would take some of the fine they collect and put it towards better infrastructure. When we went to the County, before they expanded Bruce B. Downs Bvld and they said "no" to shoulders, on a stretch of that road.

I use two rear lights. A Planet Bike Red Flashing Strobe Light, attached to the adjustment strap of my helmet. I believe the height helps the motorist see. I have a BM light on my rear rack. I also use, from ACO a neon triangle on my rack trunk. I have had people say the flashing strobe and the triangle, they picked up way out. I sometimes use a flashing white strobe up front. I believe in visability.

This is a state where motorcyclists are proud to ride without a helmet. I doubt seriously if they will ever have any laws to mandates helmets. Although under a certain age they do have a law for cyclists. We do have a seat belt law here.

Offline Westinghouse

Re: 12th Cyclist Killed In Tampa
« Reply #66 on: March 19, 2011, 04:35:34 am »
I also have a bright red, goretex rain jacket, weather required, and bright red, long nylon sweat-pants so they can see me thousands of feet away before they get to where I am. I use flashing red on the back, flashing white on the front, or just a bright flashlight, and I wear a fluorescent vest with reflective strips when touring.  I do increase my visibility as best I can.

Not coming to a complete stop before turning right on red (the Hollywood stop) is a very common occurrence I would guess just about everywhere, which is one reason a cyclist cannot just assume he can go because the rules say motorist will have to stop. When it comes to turn signals from motorists, if I had pulled across an intersection based solely on reading turn signals on vehicles in oncoming traffic, I would have been killed a long time ago. To make a life or death decision based on the assumption that all those people in the oncoming traffic will follow the rules would be foolhardy, suicidal even. No. Not me. I am safety conscious. If I ever got hit, it would most definitely be the driver's fault, not that it would be recorded as such though. When I first started cycling I read lots of books on the subject, including books on safe cycling, bicycle touring, mechanics, etc. I didn't just hop on and go.

This is off topic, but right now cycling is the least of the worries. Snipers murdered about 45 peaceful demonstrators a short distance from where I live and work. The yelling and the screaming of the crowd, and the shots were audible to me. The US embassy here is under threat of mass murder, and that threat is serious and very real. Fifteen people were killed there in 2008. Some people set a large fire the full width of the roadway so the demonstrators had no avenue of escape, effectively hemming them in,  then multiple snipers opened fire from rooftops. Most injuries were headshots, neck shots, and upper body shots aimed at killing, not just warning or pot shots. Children were murdered in this. The cousin of one of my students died from injuries.

I realize that has nothing to do with cycling, but when people are being mass-murdered in the neighborhood where you live, it is not easy to keep quiet about it.

Offline Tourista829

Re: 12th Cyclist Killed In Tampa
« Reply #67 on: March 19, 2011, 11:58:00 am »
Westinghouse, where are you in Libya or Bahrain?

Offline johnsondasw

Re: 12th Cyclist Killed In Tampa
« Reply #68 on: March 19, 2011, 01:24:33 pm »
Out of curiosity just how many of you guys use a mirror? My opinion this is the most important bit of kit to keep us safe.


No one has answered this question yet and it was asked a month ago.  Even the moderator tried to squelch it.  Why?  this is totally pertinent to the topic.  I have adjusted countless times over the past 30+ years to what I saw in the mirror, even leaving the road on occasion.  You have to accept that drivers are sometimes not paying attention--eating, texting, etc.  I have even seen a couple engaged in, um, you know, it was oral, and one of them was the driver!   

I would not ride around the block without a mirror.  You have no idea if you are going to get hit without one.  I had a friend tell me he didn't need one because he has exceptional hearing.  You can kind of hear how far behind a car is, but can you discern how close laterally it is coming to you?  We are talking about a difference of just a very few feet here. For me, I feel I am not taking all proper responsibility for my own safety without one.  In addition, I wear all high-vis gear, use multiple lights at night, ride very defensively all the time, trying to anticipate what drivers will do, etc.


So if we are really going to have a valid discussion about cyclists getting hit, this is one component that I feel cannot be ignored.   
May the wind be at your back!

Offline Westinghouse

Re: 12th Cyclist Killed In Tampa
« Reply #69 on: March 19, 2011, 02:10:19 pm »
Westinghouse, where are you in Libya or Bahrain?

Well, some place like that, but I think it would be best not to be specific, this being an open-to-the-entire-world internet forum. A colleague here was interviewed by the BBC--anonymously-- if you know what I mean. You can't be too sure how matters might develop, or what might happen next. The embassy is saying to get out while it is still possible to do so.

There isn't too much cycling in these parts. I have to be ready to evacuate under duress.

Offline Westinghouse

Re: 12th Cyclist Killed In Tampa
« Reply #70 on: March 19, 2011, 02:42:25 pm »
Out of curiosity just how many of you guys use a mirror? My opinion this is the most important bit of kit to keep us safe.


No one has answered this question yet and it was asked a month ago.  Even the moderator tried to squelch it.  Why?  this is totally pertinent to the topic.  I have adjusted countless times over the past 30+ years to what I saw in the mirror, even leaving the road on occasion.  You have to accept that drivers are sometimes not paying attention--eating, texting, etc.  I have even seen a couple engaged in, um, you know, it was oral, and one of them was the driver!   

I would not ride around the block without a mirror.  You have no idea if you are going to get hit without one.  I had a friend tell me he didn't need one because he has exceptional hearing.  You can kind of hear how far behind a car is, but can you discern how close laterally it is coming to you?  We are talking about a difference of just a very few feet here. For me, I feel I am not taking all proper responsibility for my own safety without one.  In addition, I wear all high-vis gear, use multiple lights at night, ride very defensively all the time, trying to anticipate what drivers will do, etc.


So if we are really going to have a valid discussion about cyclists getting hit, this is one component that I feel cannot be ignored.   

The fact is, I have never used a rearview mirror on a bicycle. I am for it 100%, but I haven't used one. I tried using one of those small mirrors that clips on to a cap or helmet, but it bothered me that is was blocking my side vision, and I couldn't stand that. I talked to someone who took a long tour on bike, and he told me that his rearview mirror actually saved his life. I did not know this person, but I remember how he described an experience he had on the road, and I was left with the impression that what he said actually had happened.

Offline whittierider

Re: 12th Cyclist Killed In Tampa
« Reply #71 on: March 19, 2011, 03:11:33 pm »

A safety thread that doesn't mention mirrors would be like talking about the dangers of jumping out of airplanes and never mentioning a parachute.  Helmets have been mentioned but they can't do anything to actually avoid the accident, only try to minimize the resulting injury.

I always use the mirror, but the time I myself think it most likely saved my life was when I was climbing a twisting, very narrow mountain road with no shoulder at all and a sharp dropoff on the other side of the guardrail, and there were lots of RVs whose renters didn't know how wide they are, and lots of trailers pulled by pickups whose drivers forget that just because the pickup clears you doesn't mean the trailer won't kill you.  You cannot tell that by hearing!  I had to continually control the traffic behind me, telling them when they could and could not pass.

Quote
I had a friend tell me he didn't need one because he has exceptional hearing.

So do I, but mirrors are required even in convertibles with the top down where traffic is not habitually passing you (as it is when you're riding bike) and the windshield prevents most of the wind noise in the ears.  They are required for every other vehicle on the road.  Why not bikes?  I got my first mirror in 1982 after getting hit from behind while motionless at a traffic light by a car that sounded like it was going to stop.  I can't tell you how many car-hits-bike accidents I read of that clearly could have been avoided with a mirror.  It's not just to see behind.  When you really learn to use one, you get a surprising amount of control over the traffic behind you.  You also need to know what's behind in order to make the best decision on how to safely avoid or evade a situation developing up ahead.

Offline Fred Hiltz

Re: 12th Cyclist Killed In Tampa
« Reply #72 on: March 19, 2011, 04:21:37 pm »
Out of curiosity just how many of you guys use a mirror? My opinion this is the most important bit of kit to keep us safe.
No one has answered this question yet and it was asked a month ago.  Even the moderator tried to squelch it...

I wrote "Lots of talk about mirrors in other threads. Try a search from the main forum page to check it out." I am sorry you interpret that as squelching Tony's question. It was intended to point out many answers already written.

Fred

Offline Tourista829

Re: 12th Cyclist Killed In Tampa
« Reply #73 on: March 19, 2011, 06:20:54 pm »
Westinghouse, I completely understand. Being over there, and listening to the BBC, one does not want to draw attention. Out of respect, to Fred our moderator, I did not post comments on the mirrors. We use them on all our bicycles. The Ortlieb from ACO Store on our touring bicycles. We like it. We even have two mirrors on our tandem. I have noticed few cyclists, using a mirror, here in Tampa. Congrats on your 700th post.