Adventure Cycling Association Forum
Bicycle Travel => Gear Talk => Topic started by: Alan Kimber on December 31, 2017, 11:08:08 am
-
Hi Folks,
I'm planning part of the GDMBT, south from Banff, next July. My 'go-to' stove is an MSR Reactor. I have either 1litre or 1.7litre pans. My question is..."How many gas canisters to carry, to see me through sections before buying another can?" I don't plan on rushing and will only have freeze-dried grub. One large canister okay between restock? Thanks Alan
-
My question is what makes you think you can buy a replacement cylinder easily when one runs out? I've found canisters difficult to find.
-
You won't have problems in the larger towns of the Divide route. Most of those are mountain/tourist towns catering to outdoorsman. But plan ahead somewhat.
Eureka, Whitefish, Helena, Butte, Steamboat, Breck, Salida will all have them. I'm not as familiar with the smaller towns in between.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
-
I use a Simon stove which is an alcohol burner when camping etc. When I planned my 6 week kayak trip on the Ohio and Tennessee rivers and was trying to figure out how much fuel for the stove was needed I cooked with the stove at home several times. By doing this I learned how much fuel was needed each time I used the stove then did the math to figure out how much to carry and when to resupply.
With canisters you won't be able to measure the volume needed but you should be able to work out how many meals you can prepare per canister. Keep your meal cooking pretty consistent each time and you should come up with a reasonably accurate estimate. I would also recommend carrying one additional canister that you hopefully will not need to use.
-
Thanks for the replies so far. It's good to get as many opinions as possible to form an opinion. I'll also plan ahead and contact the settlements in between and check the distances. Week long sea paddling trips in Scotland, away from towns can use up a couple of big cans, but that is with heavier food to prepare and cook. The MSR Reactor is a very quick stove to boil water for fast-cook food, so maybe five days between cans. As you say, I'll check it out on a week long Scottish off-road trip to see how much gas I use.
-
I cannot comment on the availability of gas canisters in the US, but I've always though it prudent to carry (and easier to pack) two 220g canisters rather than a large one. Used 2-3 times a day to cook oats and heat water for soup, drinks and re-hydrating meals I can usually get at least 6 days out of a canister using the pot-cosy method.
-
According to the specs, 8 0z. of fuel will last 1 hr. 20 min. at max flame. Average boiling time is 3 min. Sounds like a canister will last more than five days if all you are doing is boiling water for dehydrated food once or twice a day.
And while I don't know about Eureka (Was just there last June but didn't pay much attention to what was there), I agree that finding fuel in Whitefish, Butte and Helena shouldn't be a problem. E.g., Bob Ward's in Butte carries MSR, Jet Boil and Optimus stoves. It should have canisters. Montana Army Navy in Whitefish advertises MSR canisters on their website. I think the last time I was in Whitefish and needed liquid fuel I got some at Sportsman & Ski Haus. Both are on U.S. 93 just south of the center of town.
-
FWIW: I used the following setup on the Pacific Coast Route last summer:
Trangia alcohol burner with simmer ring
Vargo Titanium Hexagon Backpacking Wood Stove as a stand
HIGHROCK Lightweight Compact Folding Camp Stove Windscreen (amazon)
3/4 Liter pot
11 inch ceramic coated "fry pan"
1 liter plastic soda bottle for fuel
The alcohol stove is silent and easy. With the windscreen wrapped close around the pot boil times for coffee in the morning were reasonable. The simmer ring would let me cook stuff like eggs, bacon and pancakes.
Canister stoves are great -- but finding canisters out in small towns is uncertain.
Alcohol fuel is really easy to obtain in small towns -- any paint or hardware store sells denatured alcohol Roughly $8 for a quart. I used 1 - 3 oz of fuel per meal -- depending on how elaborate.
-
According to the specs, 8 0z. of fuel will last 1 hr. 20 min. at max flame. Average boiling time is 3 min. Sounds like a canister will last more than five days if all you are doing is boiling water for dehydrated food once or twice a day.
I'd take both of those specifications with a large amount of salt and plan on a lot less actual use time. It's like the weight of bicycle components, a lot of the published specs are created by the Marketing Dept.
-
Thanks folks. I'll be using gas. My MSR multi-fuel stove is good for cold places, but heavy and not so simple to light as a gas stove. The MSR Reactor boils quicker than most (any?) stoves. It's good to hear the various opinions though and thanks for your time. If I run out of gas I can always light a fire, assuming the guidelines for the environment allow.
-
Liquid gas is not as readily obtainable in campgrounds as it used to be. I have bought a gallon at a hardware store, and either sold back half the can to the store, or gave the other half to a bike shop, saying give to next touring cyclist.
-
Liquid gas is not as readily obtainable in campgrounds as it used to be. I have bought a gallon at a hardware store, and either sold back half the can to the store, or gave the other half to a bike shop, saying give to next touring cyclist.
Even selling or giving back half, a half gallon is still an awful lot of fuel to carry IMO. I'd generally not want to carry more than a quart if even that. Coleman fuel is sometimes available in quarts, but not reliably enough that I am willing to use it on multi week or multi month tours.
I like to use a pop can alcohol stove on most trips. The 12 ounce yellow bottle Heet is a nice size to carry and widely available. Folks complain about the alcohol stove taking a few minutes longer, but I don't get why that is such a big deal. Once in camp I don't see a few minutes one way or the other to be a problem. Besides I am typically doing multiple things at a time so I am not going crazy worrying a bout how fast the stove is.
-
Liquid gas is not as readily obtainable in campgrounds as it used to be.
If you use a multi-fuel stove it will work fine on unleaded regular gasoline from any gas station. If you go around to pumps that are not in use you may be able to fill a typical pint or quart fuel bottle at no cost by draining the left-over gas in a few hoses. Otherwise a quart will cost less than $1.
-
Liquid gas is not as readily obtainable in campgrounds as it used to be.
If you use a multi-fuel stove it will work fine on unleaded regular gasoline from any gas station. If you go around to pumps that are not in use you may be able to fill a typical pint or quart fuel bottle at no cost by draining the left-over gas in a few hoses. Otherwise a quart will cost less than $1.
Yes gasoline may be the most frequently and universally available fuel that you can use.
My complaints are that gasoline stinks if spilled on hands, gear, or clothing and the stove is heavier than my pop can stove. Also pressurized liquid fuel stoves tend to be a little more fiddly and much more expensive. Oh, and it seems like it would be a bigger pain to fly with it. I could see getting it clean enough to be sure of getting it and a fuel bottle through TSA inspections
There are a bunch of advantages for liquid fuel stoves though and while when going light I like my pop can stoves, I have often considered buying a Whisperlite for some of my trips. It is about 10 ounces heavier than my pop can setup, but for longer backpacking trip or bike tours with more people along it looks like a great stove. It both has more heat and probably simmers better (but in the reviews I have seen isn't noted for being great at simmering).
Can anyone comment on their experience simmering with the Whisperlite? How about problems with TSA? It would be a shame to have them confiscate a $80-120 stove and bottle.
-
TSA + gasoline stove is tricky. Checked baggage only and you need enough time for all the fuel to evaporate so the NO SMELL remains in the stove or bottle.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
-
As far as half a gallon is a lot to carry, if don't want to carry two quarts, carry one, and sell or give away the rest of a gallon.
As to using regular unleaded gas, if works for you tell us. No smoke? No clogging? A number of alternatives to Coleman fuel can be used with multi-fuel stoves, but are not recommended for extensive use.
As to simmering with Whisperlite, I've used the upgrade model, simmers fine.
As to getting by TSA; done it. Stove and bottle should be clean and odor free.
-
As to simmering with Whisperlite, I've used the upgrade model, simmers fine.
Good to hear. That sets my mind at ease. I only need decent simmering not great simmering.
As to getting by TSA; done it. Stove and bottle should be clean and odor free.
Care to comment on how you cleaned it and how much effort it was? was the cleaning after using gasoline? Also how many times have you been through TSA with it? Do you know if they ever actually inspected it? Did they swab it?
Is cleaning it a bigger deal if you use gasoline or kerosene?
Sorry for so many questions, but I am on the verge of pulling the trigger on a whisperlite and want to have a handle on the issues.
-
Thanks for the input folks. I normally use multi-fuel stoves on big mountain climbing trips, such as Denali, where 'white gas' is available. For cycling I'll certainly be using bottled gas. I'll look more closely at places to restock en-route the GDMBR. If I run out, would a carefully laid open fire be allowed?
-
Just a follow up. I finally did spring for a Whisperlite International and an 11 ounce fuel bottle and am pretty optimistic after testing it a little. It seems well made, easy to use, and not too heavy.
I already had a couple old fuel bottles from the 70's that were larger (20 oz?), but the 11 ounce bottle seems about right for most of my usage. About the only time I'd carry the larger bottle would be if I was backpacking or XC skiing and melting snow for water.
-
I have had TSA confiscate MSR style fuel bottles. The bottle was clean and odor free. They know a fuel bottle when they see one.
-
I have had TSA confiscate MSR style fuel bottles. The bottle was clean and odor free. They know a fuel bottle when they see one.
Given how expensive bottles and stoves are that is a real problem. I plan to mail them to the start and then home at the end when I fly. That or use my pop can alcohol stoves when I fly.
-
Just a follow up. I finally did spring for a Whisperlite International and an 11 ounce fuel bottle and am pretty optimistic after testing it a little. It seems well made, easy to use, and not too heavy.
I already had a couple old fuel bottles from the 70's that were larger (20 oz?), but the 11 ounce bottle seems about right for most of my usage. About the only time I'd carry the larger bottle would be if I was backpacking or XC skiing and melting snow for water.
I would advise caution while using older Sigg fuel bottles with an MSR stove. MSR developed their own line of fuel bottles after the Sigg bottles developed cracks from long term use with MSR stoves. At the very least avoid over pumping
, inspect the bottles carefully and watch out for leaks.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
-
As far as half a gallon is a lot to carry, if don't want to carry two quarts, carry one, and sell or give away the rest of a gallon.
Just another followup...
I also consider a quart to be a lot to carry for an on road bicycle tour. I figure that my 11 oz (10 oz actual useable capacity) bottle is good for a little over 7 days when backpacking and probably a good bit longer on most bike tours. On tour I am likely to eat some diner meals and am less likely to have my morning coffee in camp. I can probably do most of my shorter tours (8 or 9 days) with my 11 oz bottle and no refills.
Since I prefer to restock frequently rather than carry more food and fuel, the 11 oz bottle seems about right for me even on multi month tours. I plan to use gasoline most of the time when restocking on the road and coleman fuel when I have the option of filling at home.
-
As far as half a gallon is a lot to carry, if don't want to carry two quarts, carry one, and sell or give away the rest of a gallon.
Just another followup...
I also consider a quart to be a lot to carry for an on road bicycle tour. I figure that my 11 oz (10 oz actual useable capacity) bottle is good for a little over 7 days when backpacking and probably a good bit longer on most bike tours. On tour I am likely to eat some diner meals and am less likely to have my morning coffee in camp. I can probably do most of my shorter tours (8 or 9 days) with my 11 oz bottle and no refills.
Since I prefer to restock frequently rather than carry more food and fuel, the 11 oz bottle seems about right for me even on multi month tours. I plan to use gasoline most of the time when restocking on the road and coleman fuel when I have the option of filling at home.
With "multi-fuel" versions of the MSR stoves you can burn stuff like mineral spirits, etc sold in paint stores in 1 quart quantities.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
-
It's me again. I recall finding an article on how some threads on gas cans do not fit some stoves. I have lost the link and hope some of you can remind me. Thanks.
-
It's me again. I recall finding an article on how some threads on gas cans do not fit some stoves. I have lost the link and hope some of you can remind me. Thanks.
Some resources:
https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2016/11/can-i-use-any-brand-of-gas-canister.html
https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2012/01/gas-canisters-101.html
-
We 've had 2 or 3 of us do a couple plus weeks of touring on portions of the Southern Tier between San Diego and Phoenix in each of the last 2 years, and carried Kovea Spider Stoves for cooking. The Kovea uses a canister for fuel. I found it tough to find the canisters while touring these areas. But there is an adapter available from Kovea to allow connection to a propane fuel bottle, such as are used on larger Coleman stoves or a propane torch. We were able to easily find these fuel bottles in hardware stores. They worked great. We usually picked up 2 bottles for cooking, as we carried 2 stoves, one for a skillet to brown meat, and one for a pot for cooking pasta and such. Never ran out in the 2+ weeks we rode. I also own a MSR Pocket Rocket and a couple MSR Whisper Light Multi-Fuel stoves. I tried the adapter on the MSR's and they do not work with them. Only on the Kovea.
-
We 've had 2 or 3 of us do a couple plus weeks of touring on portions of the Southern Tier between San Diego and Phoenix in each of the last 2 years, and carried Kovea Spider Stoves for cooking. The Kovea uses a canister for fuel. I found it tough to find the canisters while touring these areas. But there is an adapter available from Kovea to allow connection to a propane fuel bottle, such as are used on larger Coleman stoves or a propane torch. We were able to easily find these fuel bottles in hardware stores. They worked great. We usually picked up 2 bottles for cooking, as we carried 2 stoves, one for a skillet to brown meat, and one for a pot for cooking pasta and such. Never ran out in the 2+ weeks we rode. I also own a MSR Pocket Rocket and a couple MSR Whisper Light Multi-Fuel stoves. I tried the adapter on the MSR's and they do not work with them. Only on the Kovea.
I used to carry a propane stove for backpacking and canoe camping way back in the day, before I started bike touring, but in recent years decided the propane cylinders were way too heavy to make much sense for my style of camping.
Your two cylinders together would weigh almost 4 pounds when full if they were the 16 ounce ones and a bit less if the 14 ounce ones. For those of us who are very weight conscious that is a non-starter. For those who don't care much about packing light another propane option would be the grasshopper stove. I still have one from back in the early 70's and it still works fine, I use it when we are without power in our house after storms.
-
I agree, the propane cylinders are a tad heavy, even for the smaller ones. But we chose to cook and eat together each day. So we divided all the cooking stuff up, as evenly as possible, spreading the weight among the 3 of us. I wouldn't even consider them if I was backpacking, as I like ultralight when doing that. But they were the only ones we could find without going lots out of our way to get to an REI or such that carried the small canisters. We also decided we could make do with 1 stove among the three of us on our next trip next year. I easily was able to carry a total of 54 pounds on my Surly during the trip. Food for our group and my water weren't figured into that total, as that varied daily. But like everyone else, we are always looking at ways to cut weight during our trips. If we weren't eating as a group, I definitely would be carrying a lighter cookset. Probably would go with my alcohol stove, as the fuel is easier to find. And the weight is pretty much nil. But we like throwing together a nice group meal whenever possible in the evenings when camping.