Adventure Cycling Association Forum

Bicycle Travel => Gear Talk => Topic started by: navyfpdoc on February 28, 2012, 04:40:15 pm

 
Title: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: navyfpdoc on February 28, 2012, 04:40:15 pm
Greetings to all!

I'm looking to update from my 2000 Cannondale T2000, considering the Surly LHT, but noted on their website they have a Disc Trucker that I haven't seen reviewed elsewhere.  Anyone care to comment on experience with the latter?  Seems most Surly owners, LHT's in particular, are pretty loyal and give great reviews.  Any input you have is appreciated!

Mark
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: Ailish on February 28, 2012, 06:48:21 pm
The disk trucker is new for 2012, and bikes weren't supposed to be available before this month, so there's probably not too much direct experience with them yet.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: patrickstoneking on April 04, 2012, 01:05:51 pm
I've been riding my disc trucker for the last couple of days and it works as expected. It was a little complicated getting the fenders and Surly racks to fit but in the end everything fit fine.  Rides just like a LHT but stops a lot better.  The only thing I am not thrilled with is that Surly changed from silver components to black for the Disc Trucker.  It was not what I expected when I ordered the bike and frankly I like the silver components much better than the black.  At some level I feel deceived by Surly and probably wouldn't rush to buy another bike from them again without a better understanding of the changes they have made.  Also not super thrilled with the Shimano LX substitution for the former XT deurallieurs.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: paddleboy17 on April 04, 2012, 01:18:32 pm
Patrick,

I am dying to hear what happens when a pannier laden touring bike does a panic stop with disk brakes.  I keep thinking spokes should shear, but I am hoping that you can give us real data. 
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: patrickstoneking on April 04, 2012, 02:26:36 pm
I will know better this weekend after I take a short trek.  However, given my experience with disc brakes on down hill mountain bikes, there is no issue with the wheels being damaged due to the braking force.  I'm not a small guy and I've never seen a wheel damaged this way.

I'll let you know what I learn.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: TwoWheeledExplorer on April 05, 2012, 01:10:02 am
If you look at my profile/avatar picture, I am riding an '07 Novara Safari with disc brakes, fully loaded. Never had any problem at all with the brakes. Much better control on descents, no likelihood of the brakes overheating the rims and blowing a tire. No brake fade. Based on my experience with the Safari, I won't buy any new bike unless it has disc brakes.

Ride safe,
Hans
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: Pat Lamb on April 05, 2012, 08:54:46 am
... no likelihood of the brakes overheating the rims and blowing a tire.

Hans, all your other points can be argued, but I agree a disk brake won't blow a tire.  Though I've met two people who had blowouts on long/steep descents (one of whom was riding a loaded bike), I've never personally blown a tire, although occasionally I have to think about it and change braking behavior to prevent it.  As to the rest, it's a matter of taste.  Properly set up brakes of almost any kind (cantilever, caliper, or disk) give good control on descents.  I've read accounts of disk brakes fading -- after all, a rim is just a large disk, and it's possible to overheat either.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: TwoWheeledExplorer on April 05, 2012, 09:07:29 am
Hans, all your other points can be argued...

I wasn't responding for the sake of arguement. I was responding to paddleboy17's comment, "I am dying to hear what happens when a pannier laden touring bike does a panic stop with disk brakes. I keep thinking spokes should shear..."

I have been riding a touring bike with disc brakes for five years now, front and rear racks, sometimes with a BoB trailer, and have never had any problems with them on descents, paved or unpaved. That was my point, based on my experience.

Ride safe,
Hans
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: patrickstoneking on April 05, 2012, 10:50:17 am
I gave it a try last night and noticed zero issues with approximate 300 lbs (bike, rider, and gear) on the bike.  I have had issues with rim brakes in the past heating an aluminum rim up enough on long descents to damage the rim or blow a tire.  I have also had enough experience with rim brakes not working when wet to convince me to spring for the disc trucker over the LHT.

Regarding fade, my experience with down hill mountain bikes has indicated that the hydraulic disc brakes can experience fade but it is very difficult to do.  The cable disc brakes don't fade at all because the is no fluid to overheat.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: paddleboy17 on April 05, 2012, 12:51:03 pm
Hans, all your other points can be argued...

I wasn't responding for the sake of arguement. I was responding to paddleboy17's comment, "I am dying to hear what happens when a pannier laden touring bike does a panic stop with disk brakes. I keep thinking spokes should shear..."

I have been riding a touring bike with disc brakes for five years now, front and rear racks, sometimes with a BoB trailer, and have never had any problems with them on descents, paved or unpaved. That was my point, based on my experience.

Ride safe,
Hans

It is nice to know that I started a controvery, and it is nice to get a definitive answer to the panic stop question.

My second tour was the Cabot Trail on Cape Breton Island (Nova Scotia).  I still remember a rainy descent down one of their mountainettes (French Mountain) wondering if my rims would overheat (and loose a tire), my brake pads would glaze, or I would tumble over a metal guardrail after taking a curve too fast.  Braking is really important on a touring bike!

When I ordered my Waterford, they offered to prep the frame for disk brakes.  I thought seriously about disk brakes, and worried about snapping spokes.  In the end I went with cantilever brakes, but had a rear disk brake added for use as a drag brake.  The drag brake works great, although I don't use it regularly.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: BikeFreak on April 06, 2012, 03:23:21 pm
Off topic:

Spokes have tensile strength of approx 1100 MPa.
Typical spoke diameter is 2 mm.
Lets assume you have 2 wheels both with 36 spokes. On each wheel 18 spokes act as "braking spokes" due to the spoke pattern. In total you have 36 "braking spokes".

Main formula: p=F/A

where p=pressure=tensile strength
F=Force
A=Cross sectional area

Lets calculate the cross sectional area

A=3,14/4*2^2=3,14 mm^2

F=p*A
F=1100*3,14=3454 N

With a total of 36 braking spokes you have 3454*36=124344 N

which equals 12,6 tonnes.

Now, unless you are able to stop your bike literally within a fraction of a second (=enormous decelleration) I hereby claim that you will never reach the 12,6 tonnes limit. Now, one can extend the calculus with all different kinds of variables, but this was only to show how strong spokes actually are.

As a comparison:

Construction steel tensile strength: 370 MPa
And the beforementioned stainless steel spoke: 1100 MPa

... and even higher for thinner spokes.

Thus, spoke material is 3 times stronger than construction steel.

However, if your spokes have experienced extensive fatigue due to bad/wrong wheel building, a large strain like a downhill brake might just be what is required for a snap. But thats a different story and disc brakes cannot be accused for that matter.

Now, this doesn't mean I run disc brakes myself. I have used disc brakes and they are fun in dry sunny weather in town. I only run hydraulic rim brakes (=Magura). My Maguras have not required any service or a drop of oil for the last 13 years.

Lucas

Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: Gsplfnk on April 06, 2012, 09:47:22 pm
Greetings! Nice to meet you all.

Just took ownership of my Surly Disc Trucker this AM. First build out in of the new Trucker Seattle. I spent quite a bit of time with meet and greet and such, then hauled trucker ass to the ferry for an 80 mile adjustment ride.

I can tell you these things after one day. Never was there a stouter nor more stable ride in this world, and possibly the next. First 80 mile impression, mind you. I turned my Trek 520 over for some major work as I picked up the newbie (not getting rid of the Trek--too wonderful, and very very dear after 20 years). But I have to tell you, everything that Surly and their fans tell you about the Disc Trucker is absolutely true. I have been around the globe four times in miles on my 520, did @14,000 miles a year for each of its first three years --I was gainfully unemployed and rode long every day of every week), so believe me, these words don't come from the brief infatuation of a novice. My Trek is legendary in Seattle in terms of mileage. The problem with it is that it was a big frame to begin with, and in the 20 years since we have been together, it has either grown a lot, or I have lost a couple of inches. (Sad to say, I'm the one who has grown older and shorter during the past 20 years.)

So take it from an extremely fit and somewhat knowledgeable and experienced 63 year-old. The Trucker is heavier than the 520 by lots. So if it's speed you're after, don't go there. But if you want the best riding battleship in the touring fleet, GO THERE! Oh, and my only real sore point (for each and every one of the 20 years) about the Trek was the brakes. If I was loaded down with groceries or books or firewood--which is pretty much all the time (I can drive, but I have never owned a car, so I am demanding of brakes on my rides large and small), the Trek gets pretty harrowing in terms of stop-ability, real fast. The disc brakes on the Trucker have taken all of that stored up angst away today. I made sure I was riding heavy (my four large test-weighted Ortliebs and me), and I am here to tell you that, while I still can't stop on a dime carrying this kind of weight, I can do it if necessary in less than half a block going full-tilt down hill. My warning to children: if you run out of safety room trying to stop at an intersection with this rig and you get killed,  it will have been your own damn fault.

More when there is more to tell.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: TwoWheeledExplorer on April 07, 2012, 12:59:54 am
Here is my disc brake Novara Safari, with full load front and rear. I use Jandd Mountain panniers and an Old Man Mountain front rack. The rear rack is still the standard Novara, although I am thinking of replacing it with a Jandd Expedition rack, for no other reason than I like solid deck racks and the Safari rack is open. Anyhow, that is not the point, again. I bought this bike for the disc brakes, and my next bike will have them too.

(http://www.twowheeledexplorer.org/Safari910.jpg)

Ride safe,
Hans
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: paddleboy17 on April 09, 2012, 01:23:19 pm
Lucas (aka BikeFreak):

This is an interesting analysis.  It sounds like spokes should never ever break, and yet we all have broken them.  One of my buddy's does not break spokes, but he does regularly break spoke nipples.

The failure mode that I always envisioned for a disk brake has the hub clamped into position and the bike still trying to roll because of momentum.  Maybe that would put half of the spokes in tension or all of the spokes in tension.  I think copious ammounts of alcohol are needed to fully understand the spoke. 

I think if the spokes ability to rotate about the hub were impeded that might lead to spoke failure.  I think missing from your otherwise execellent analysis is the effect of butted spokes (cross section is reduced) and coldworking at the right angle bend on the spoke (assuming not a radially laced spoke). 

Got any more thoughts on spoke failure modes? 
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: tksleeper on April 11, 2012, 09:59:35 pm
I've been riding a disc brake Giant OCR Tour bike since 2003 with no real issues.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/6172717388/in/set-72157627604208847/

Disc brakes aren't without their own set of issues.  However I always got where I was going.  They do stop oh so very nice.

Kelli
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: waynemyer on April 13, 2012, 09:14:10 am
This is an interesting analysis.  It sounds like spokes should never ever break, and yet we all have broken them.  One of my buddy's does not break spokes, but he does regularly break spoke nipples.

Got any more thoughts on spoke failure modes?
According to Schraner, Art of the Bicycle Wheel, the rim or hubshell should fail before the a spoke ever breaks on a properly built wheel. In talking with my favorite wheelbuilders, the anecdata seem to underscore this. Some of their loaded touring wheels go 50,000, 60,000 miles before the rim needs to be replaced because of a worn brake track.

Spokes fail when the tension is insufficient. And they almost always fail at the J-bend or the thread. In my experience, they fail upon unloading after a final stressing, e.g. immediately at pedal BDC after accelerating or climbing a hill. If your friend is breaking spoke nipples, I would suggest brass nipples. I have pulled brass nipples through a rim but never broken one.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: alanrogers on April 24, 2012, 12:38:43 am
I bought a 58cm LHT last Nov, and loved it all except for the toe overlap. This was bad enough that I decided to get a larger frame, in order to increase the distance between toe and wheel. I rode the LHT all winter, and have now been riding my new 62cm disc trucker for about two weeks. No long trips, and none with a heavy load.

The larger frame does help with toe overlap. Not hugely: I still have to be careful. But it is now a minor annoyance rather than a serious problem.

So far, the I like the LX rear derailleur just fine. I was worried about this initially, but it seems to shift at least as smoothly as the XT on my old bike. The disc trucker has a 34-tooth rear cog, which the LX (according to its specs) is too small to handle. I asked Surly about this before I ordered and was told (a) that Shimano says it will handle the 34, and (b) that several people at Surly rode the LX for months with a 34 before deciding to use it. My own subjective impression is that the shifts are slightly crisper with the LX than with the XT.  I have no difficulty shifting onto the 34.

The disc brakes have taken some getting used to. My initial impression was that they stopped about as fast as my old cantis but made a horrible squeal while doing so. The web is full of conflicting advice about curing disc brake squeal, but today I found something really useful. One posting claimed that the squeal happens because the brake pads are not sitting square in their slots. His recommendation was to jerk the bike forward and backward a few times while pressing lightly on the brakes. This, he claimed, would properly seat the pads. It worked like magic. My squeal is now gone. And now that I can brake without wincing at the sound, I can verify that yes, it's true, mechanical disc brakes really do stop faster than cantis.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: waynemyer on April 24, 2012, 09:49:14 am
I bought a 58cm LHT last Nov, and loved it all except for the toe overlap.

You must have some serious clodhoppers. I get toe overlap on every bike that I ride because of my pontoon-like feet, so I know the pain.

The disc brakes have taken some getting used to. My initial impression was that they stopped about as fast as my old cantis but made a horrible squeal while doing so. The web is full of conflicting advice about curing disc brake squeal,

It's not the advice conflicts, but that there are so many potential causes. Misaligned calipers, scorched pads, contaminated pads, pads that were worn too far before adjusting them inward again, brake dust, et al. All disc brakes squeal at some point. But nailing down that cause can be a little annoying. I consider it a small price of admission for the increased modulation and fault tolerance, and lower maintenance.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: patrickstoneking on April 25, 2012, 01:47:07 pm
Lucas (aka BikeFreak):

This is an interesting analysis.  It sounds like spokes should never ever break, and yet we all have broken them.  One of my buddy's does not break spokes, but he does regularly break spoke nipples.


I guess I have been lucky.  I have yet to break a spoke in 35 years of road and mountain biking.  Whacked a wheel out of true?  You bet.  Taco-ed a wheel after hitting an obstruction at high speed?  Yep - that's me.  But never a spoke.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: zonesystempro on May 03, 2012, 09:12:46 pm
Considering what you would spend on a Surly or LHT you might consider having a custom bike made. You'd get exactly what you want and a perfect fit to you body size. The money you spend would also benefit your local economy and not China's!
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: RussSeaton on May 04, 2012, 04:03:43 pm
Considering what you would spend on a Surly or LHT you might consider having a custom bike made.

I don't think the prices are that comparable.  $1200 for a LHT at my local bike shop.  Rock Lobster sells a custom touring bike for about $1600 for frame and fork.  Not sure he is the cheapest but pretty close to being the cheapest custom bike maker.  Figure another $800 at least for parts for the touring bike.  You are looking at about double the price for a custom over the LHT.  Not saying you should not get the custom touring bike.  It may be the best, finest, greatest bike ever.  But it will cost you at least double what the LHT costs.  Prices for steel utilitarian bikes are not comparable between custom and a big factory bike maker.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: adventurepdx on May 05, 2012, 02:58:20 am
Considering what you would spend on a Surly or LHT you might consider having a custom bike made. You'd get exactly what you want and a perfect fit to you body size.

While I don't disagree that having a custom bike would possibly fit you better, I agree with Russ regarding price issues. You can get an LHT complete for around $1200, whereas most complete custom touring bikes I've seen are in the $3000 and up range. We're talking two to three times as much as an LHT. That's a significant difference.

The money you spend would also benefit your local economy and not China's!

Actually Surly bikes are built in Taiwan, not mainland China. Built by Maxway, I believe.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: paddleboy17 on May 07, 2012, 01:33:48 pm
The couple of people I know (self included) who went the custom bike route have paid closer to $5000 to get a custom bike.  Granted we all went for the tanderm wheel sets, and that usually mean $1000 on just the wheels.  So there is no getting around the fact that an LHT is much cheaper.

I have seen a lot of LHTs, but I have never seen one with panniers on it.  The tubing diameter looks small to be stiff enough to tour on.  I ended up with a custom touring bike because my light touring  bike that came from the LBS wiggled with 60 pounds of gear on it.

Anyone really tour on an LHT with full packs?   Is the frame stiff enough for full packs?

Credit card trips don't count.  Supported trips don't count either.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: Pat Lamb on May 07, 2012, 01:47:21 pm
I have seen a lot of LHTs, but I have never seen one with panniers on it.  The tubing diameter looks small to be stiff enough to tour on.  I ended up with a custom touring bike because my light touring  bike that came from the LBS wiggled with 60 pounds of gear on it.

Anyone really tour on an LHT with full packs?   Is the frame stiff enough for full packs?

FWIW, some 40-50% of the tourists I passed on my 2009 TransAm were riding LHTs, all with full panniers.  The overwhelming majority had both front and rear panniers.  All the LHT riders we chatted with loved their bikes, and not one complained about the bike not being stiff enough.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: adventurepdx on May 07, 2012, 01:54:52 pm
Anyone really tour on an LHT with full packs?   Is the frame stiff enough for full packs? Credit card trips don't count.  Supported trips don't count either.

Yep.
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6172/6172822972_6017aa873c_z.jpg)

Almost 4,000 miles on tour last year. Front and rear panniers plus more. No support, though I did pull out my credit card from time to time... ;)
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: RussSeaton on May 07, 2012, 04:46:36 pm
I have seen a lot of LHTs, but I have never seen one with panniers on it.  The tubing diameter looks small to be stiff enough to tour on.  I ended up with a custom touring bike because my light touring  bike that came from the LBS wiggled with 60 pounds of gear on it.

Cannot speak for the Long Haul Trucker specifically.  But I had a 1991 Trek 520, their touring bike.  It had a steel frame with skinny tubes like the LHT.  I never experienced any wiggling of the frame descending mountains at 40 mph with front and rear panniers, handlebar bag, and rear rack bag.  I tend to think all bikes are more than stiff enough for anything.  People who complain about stiffness of a bike says more about them than the bike.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: paddleboy17 on May 07, 2012, 11:52:22 pm
Cannot speak for the Long Haul Trucker specifically.  But I had a 1991 Trek 520, their touring bike.  It had a steel frame with skinny tubes like the LHT.  I never experienced any wiggling of the frame descending mountains at 40 mph with front and rear panniers, handlebar bag, and rear rack bag.  I tend to think all bikes are more than stiff enough for anything.  People who complain about stiffness of a bike says more about them than the bike.

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you--sometimes it is the bike and not the rider.  Most sub $2000 touring bikes are sold to people who never put panniers on them and the bike companies know that and cut corners knowing that they can get away with it.  I work with a guy that owns a 520 which is slightly older than yours (old enough to be 27" instead of 700c), and he has had wiggle issues.  Neil Gunton over at CrazyGuyOnABike has owned several bikes that have had ride issues when loaded down with panniers.  And I have had wiggle issues with my first touring bike, a Bianchi Volpe.  I am confident that all three of us were capable of getting the weight in our panniers balanced, that we know how to spin our pedals smoothly, and that we make sure that our wheels are properly seated, true, and round.

I may have misspoke when I talked about frame stiffness.  I can make my Waterford frame flex, but vibrations immediately dampen out.  I will have to talk to my mechanical engineering buddies to find out what material property describes the ability to dampen out vibration.  I don't know how Waterford does it, but it is a beautiful thing.  Sad thing is that I would expect every touring frame to do that.  Cheaper touring bikes might weigh more and do come with crappier components, but they ought to be tour ready.

I am glad to hear that your 520 works for you.  And I glad to hear about those glowing LHT testimonials.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: Slammin Sammy on May 31, 2012, 01:24:30 pm
I'm a newbie to this forum, and I'm coming into this thread a little late... But back to discs on fully loaded tourers-

Andy Blance of Thorn bikes in the UK is dead against discs on blade forks, claiming they won't take the torque. Not the spokes or tyres, but the forks! He won't supply them except on tubular forks (very rigid and uncomfortable) or shocks.

Comments?
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: waynemyer on June 01, 2012, 03:44:23 pm
Andy Blance of Thorn bikes in the UK is dead against discs on blade forks, claiming they won't take the torque. Not the spokes or tyres, but the forks! He won't supply them except on tubular forks (very rigid and uncomfortable) or shocks.
The materials engineering for disc forks is solid. The Kona Project 2 disc fork (Kona Sutra) is plenty cushy and comfortable. If these were so failure prone, you would hear a lot about it, rather than seeing Kona continue to produce the Sutra and the Project 2. Salsa, Surly, Trek (Portland), and so on... all these manufacturers have comfortable disc forks. This past weekend, I took my Salsa Fargo 2 on a 260 mile fully loaded trip over chip seal, dirt roads, and nasty pavement. Plenty of steep descents with hard braking.

Andy Blance is demonstrating (pick one or more): his bias; his ignorance; his inability to source a good fork; his inability to design a proper fork. The issue is taking a non-disc fork leg and slapping a disc mount fork end on it. The leg will snap.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: Bike Hermit on July 18, 2012, 08:17:19 pm
After writing my recent post on the Disc Trucker I realized I could not come up with a lot of downsides. As to the fork's ability to withstand the disc brake forces I will say that even though the Surly crew bolsters the image of being a bunch of beer swillin' yahoos, they have top notch engineers.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: TwoWheeledExplorer on July 18, 2012, 11:04:39 pm
Anyone really tour on an LHT with full packs?   Is the frame stiff enough for full packs?

We see about a half-dozen fully-loaded LHTs every summer in the park where I work. Front and rear panniers, front bags and a BoB, large rear bags only. We are a nice ride from the end of the commuter rail line. People will ride the train out from the Twin Cities (MN), and then trek the 20 miles to Lake Maria State Park or 12 to Sand Dunes State Forest campgrounds on their bikes.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: staehpj1 on July 19, 2012, 06:57:08 am
I have seen a lot of LHTs, but I have never seen one with panniers on it.
You must tour where there are few to no other tourists.  Lately it seems that a very substantial portion of the tourists I meet are on a loaded LHT.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: goalie on July 25, 2012, 10:15:47 am
Anyone really tour on an LHT with full packs?   Is the frame stiff enough for full packs?

We see about a half-dozen fully-loaded LHTs every summer in the park where I work. Front and rear panniers, front bags and a BoB, large rear bags only. We are a nice ride from the end of the commuter rail line. People will ride the train out from the Twin Cities (MN), and then trek the 20 miles to Lake Maria State Park or 12 to Sand Dunes State Forest campgrounds on their bikes.

You might see me rolling by on my way from Minneapolis to Perham next weekend.  :)  (On a fully loaded LHT that rides just fine under load)
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: Joe B on July 25, 2012, 03:36:29 pm
1/3 of the way through a Triple Cross (sort of) Anacortes-Norfolk-Key West -Boston-San Diego on ....
....wait for it......
...Yup....
A LHT with full front/rear ortliebs
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: goalie on August 11, 2012, 08:09:40 pm
Anyone really tour on an LHT with full packs?   Is the frame stiff enough for full packs?

We see about a half-dozen fully-loaded LHTs every summer in the park where I work. Front and rear panniers, front bags and a BoB, large rear bags only. We are a nice ride from the end of the commuter rail line. People will ride the train out from the Twin Cities (MN), and then trek the 20 miles to Lake Maria State Park or 12 to Sand Dunes State Forest campgrounds on their bikes.

You saw me with a fully-loaded LHT a week ago.  :)

That storm was epic in a hammock, and the LHT frame was just fine pounding out 91.5 miles the next day to just past Osakis where we camped, all into that 20+ mph wind.

 ;)
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: TwoWheeledExplorer on August 11, 2012, 10:03:46 pm
You saw me with a fully-loaded LHT a week ago.  :)

That storm was epic in a hammock, and the LHT frame was just fine pounding out 91.5 miles the next day to just past Osakis where we camped, all into that 20+ mph wind.

 ;)

Oh man, yeah, I remember. I told my boss I had put two guys on bikes in site B-5, and he said nobody came up to him with problems in the morning. I patrolled through the park by truck as the storm was ending, but nobody flagged me down. We had a few limbs down at both locations, nothing major, no property damage or injuries.

He also told me, in the future it's okay to put touring cyclists in the lake picnic area, so next time, whether it's you or anyone else, that's what I'll do. At Sand Dunes I would put you in one of the Pineview group sites.

Glad you had a good trip. Hope it was somewhat cooler on Sunday, and that you and your son-in-law got some quality time together.

Ride safe,
Ranger Hans
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: goalie on August 12, 2012, 12:01:51 am
You saw me with a fully-loaded LHT a week ago.  :)

That storm was epic in a hammock, and the LHT frame was just fine pounding out 91.5 miles the next day to just past Osakis where we camped, all into that 20+ mph wind.

 ;)

Oh man, yeah, I remember. I told my boss I had put two guys on bikes in site B-5, and he said nobody came up to him with problems in the morning. I patrolled through the park by truck as the storm was ending, but nobody flagged me down. We had a few limbs down at both locations, nothing major, no property damage or injuries.

He also told me, in the future it's okay to put touring cyclists in the lake picnic area, so next time, whether it's you or anyone else, that's what I'll do. At Sand Dunes I would put you in one of the Pineview group sites.

Glad you had a good trip. Hope it was somewhat cooler on Sunday, and that you and your son-in-law got some quality time together.

Ride safe,
Ranger Hans

Actually, that campsite (B5) was perfect.  We had a great evening, and I actually enjoyed the storm, as I made sure there were no dead branches above me when I set up.   I am also trying out a bigger tarp than usual for better rain coverage over the hammock when bike-camping (it's too heavy for backpacking though) and it worked rather well with the storm.  The stock tarp probably would have left me a little wet in that much wind and rain. 

We had a great Sunday doing only 65 miles, with about 40 on dirt/gravel/minimum maintenance roads with almost zero wind.  I'm sure we'll do that trip again, as we've already had people from work ask us about coming along next time.   :)

Thanks again for the great campsite.  It was beautiful, and we didn't see anyone else all night.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: sspeed on October 02, 2012, 03:44:54 pm
Anyone really tour on an LHT with full packs?   Is the frame stiff enough for full packs?

Credit card trips don't count.  Supported trips don't count either.

Surly had this on their site:

http://surlybikes.com/info_hole/faqs/what_is_the_cargo_weight_limit_for_the_long_haul_trucker

What is the cargo weight limit for the Long Haul Trucker?

There are too many variables involved for us to supply a straight, hard numbers type answer. Rider weight, rack type, terrain, cargo weight distribution, and more all come into play. Very generally speaking, we feel comfortable with combined rider and cargo weight of up to about 300lbs/136kg. However, if you're 150lbs (68kg) you probably are not going to like the handling of a bike carrying 150lbs of stuff, so be reasonable. The Big Dummy can haul more because it is awesome. And our Trailer can haul about 300lbs give or take.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: speedracerxx on January 09, 2013, 11:03:42 pm
just my 2 cents I'm 6'6" 285 lbs my last tour was the gap and c&o trail to dc.
I have a disc trucker size 62 cm front and rear racks .my bike loaded for my trip 95
lbs .the bike worked fine the fork did not fail . disc brakes all the way.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: bikeman on January 13, 2013, 04:20:11 pm
My Cannondale F600 Mtn bike with disc setup with Burley touring trailer had serious overheating brake fade problems on very STEEP and long downhills. Only on very LONG STEEP down hills, gradual USA down hills no problem, overseas unregulated hwy design down hills were a problem. Reminds me to hookup both disc/lever on my Specialized Stumpjumper disc/canti lever wheels, should be bullet proof combination, could be a problem if braking causes some unknown wheel wobble or rim warping. Hmmmmm sounds like a spring project?
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: Dr. John on January 21, 2013, 06:11:36 pm
Looking at pictures of the disc trucker fork, it appears that the left fork should be stiffer than the right fork as one might expect.  I am wondering if any owners of disc truckers have had any problems with a tendency to turn to the right?  If you have a disc trucker are you limited to circular tours or can you do a point-to-point tour?  Perhap if you wanted to do a tour in a counter-clockwise direction you could find a custom frame-builder to design a fork for you for maybe $500 with the disc caliper mounted to the right fork, thus making it easier to turn left (or you could put that $500 into your tour).  I'll have to talk to my mechanical engineering friends about it.  Seriously though, has anyone mounted a Tubus Tara rack to the disc trucker fork and fenders with normal stays?  I have a trucker deluxe, with which I tour and commute 200 miles/week sometimes loaded with 40 lbs. of most likely very unbalanced groceries with no problems other than when I went through snow and didn't realize that ice had accumulated on my rims - slowed down my stopping a bit.  Thought I might switch to a disc up front, but only if it is not too much a hassle.  I don't really see the need for a rear disc brake as I can lock up the rear wheel with a caliper brake just fine.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: DwarvenChef on February 21, 2013, 04:59:34 pm
4 mo's ago I picked up a DT, upgrading from a Trek 7100... Ya big upgrade :p  I don't have a front rack yet but carry a bit of weight up front daily and have not had trouble with pulling to the right yet.

I stopped driving a year ago for health reasons and really have no intention to going back to the car untill I can't peddle anylonger :p I use a BOB and rear paniers for shopping and all so while I have not put out very long rides, just local overnights, I have clocked 2k miles already. But my area is farking flat land... I'll be moving to Santa Barbara soon and look forward to all my old stomping grounds :)

I have not seen or played with the LHT yet but I would like to just to feel the difference myself. I went with the DT because I have some long downhill rides planned and after seeing a bike blow out on 154 due to rim fatigue... Ya I just feel better with the disc breaks :)
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: 26surlydisc on June 30, 2013, 01:02:59 pm
Fenders for surly 26" disc with surly racks front & rear?

Anyone know which fenders will fit this bike?

Tried a few different brands ....  will not work.

Thanks for any help out there.

Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: johnwilldo on July 02, 2013, 04:42:25 pm
I bought my Surly Disc Trucker in Berkeley where I wintered this year and put on several hundred miles before relocating to northeastern Pennsylvania.  I am still riding it unloaded while I am slowly accumulating racks and panniers.  I have very hilly rides back east and love the disc brakes, but do not find that they are much different from the rim brakes on my Trek 7.2 or my Kestrel Evoke road bike.  The ride on the trucker is springy and enjoyable compared to my other bikes, even with the stock saddle.  I have purchased a Brooks Flyer saddle but have yet to put it on.  I also want to mount fenders but have not decided which are the better choice.  All in all, the Tucker gets five stars out of five for ride and handling.  Thanks to the folks at the Missing Link Bicycle Cooperative in Berkeley for a great fit!  I have about 500 miles on it now and am very pleased.  I have given my Trek to my son and may just sell the Kestrel since the Surly is the only one that I ride since coming back east.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: sspeed on July 02, 2013, 05:12:11 pm
Seriously though, has anyone mounted a Tubus Tara rack to the disc trucker fork and fenders with normal stays?

Don't know about the Tara, but I had a Tubus Duo on there with big fenders and all was well.  I'm selling the Duo though, my rear bags are so big I can get everything in there.
Title: Fenders for the 26" Disc Trunker
Post by: johnwilldo on July 02, 2013, 07:41:53 pm
I want to add fenders to mine also, but have not researched fenders as yet. I wonder if the Bike planet hybrid pair that I saw at Performance Bikes would work?  There was a shop in Portland Oregon (http://www.joe-bike.com/commuter-bikes/surly-disc-trucker/) that had a picture of a Disc Trucker with Planet Bike Grasshopper Bamboo fenders, Brooks Flyer honey saddle and bar tape to match.  Looked pretty impressive.  Guess who also bought a Brooks Flyer saddle?  The matching tape will have to wait for the next budget period.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: Old Guy New Hobby on July 03, 2013, 08:04:59 am
I wonder where I could find that matching tape?
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: johnwilldo on July 03, 2013, 10:39:17 am
Almost any local bike shop that carries Brook saddles.  On line:  Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=brooks+leather+bar+tape&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=9111372699&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9509681831386778782&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_2htrq7ccvd_b
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: Old Guy New Hobby on July 03, 2013, 08:43:32 pm
It's not cheap.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: johnwilldo on July 03, 2013, 09:43:20 pm
No, it is not cheap and I rarely see the Brook bar tape go on sale.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: RussSeaton on July 03, 2013, 10:45:13 pm
The leather Brooks bar tape is not a good idea.  Leather is slick when wet.  Wet from sweat or rain.  It will be very hard to hold onto your bars.  The leather used for the bar tape is also very thin.  It has no padding.  It will be about like grabbing the hard aluminum bar directly.  No comfort at all.  About like the old time Benotto plastic handlebar tape.  There is a reason different materials are used for different parts of bicycles.  Leather is not a good idea to use for handlebar tape.  The foam stuff used for tape now days works good.  It provides cushion so its comfortable.  And it has some texture to it so you can grab it when its wet and not have your hands slip off.
Title: Re: Surly Disc Trucker v. LHT
Post by: johnwilldo on July 04, 2013, 08:03:53 am
Very good point, especially since I am hoping to do long distance trips where perspiration and precipitation become a factor.