Adventure Cycling Association Forum

Bicycle Travel => Gear Talk => Topic started by: peterharris on July 12, 2012, 11:40:32 am

 
Title: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: peterharris on July 12, 2012, 11:40:32 am
I've got a fairly new steel-frame bike and have been caught in a couple of torrential downpours. After the first time, I didn't think much about it, wiped the bike down, and put it in the shed until the next ride. The next time I got ready to ride I tilted the bike up for some reason and orange water poured out through the weep holes on the chainstays - maybe as much as a tablespoon for each side. I started asking around for suggestions on how to protect the interior of the frame. I got rained on hard the other day but before putting the bike away I made sure to tilt it up and drain any water out - maybe 1-2 teaspoons each this time.

My LBS initially suggested a product called "Frame Saver" but they're a small biz and don't seem to be able to get their hands on any of the stuff for another month or two. They do have Boeshield T-9 which the mfgr claims is good for "inside frame" as well as for chains, derailleurs, etc: "Solvent Base flushes out old lubricants. Penetrates deeply to thoroughly coat inner pins and rollers. Dries to a clean Paraffin Wax film so it will not pick up dirt. Lubricates and protects for 150 to 200 miles per application."

Thoughts? Opinions? Ideas? I'm not sure I want to use it as a general-purpose lube or chain lube but I may be interested in it as a frame-saver.


(>> I just checked a couple of on-line bike shops and Frame Saver seems to be on back order. I checked Amazon and they don't have it but the first product that popped up when I did a Frame Saver search was ... Boeshield T-9).
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: DaveB on July 12, 2012, 12:53:10 pm
I've used Frame Saver and it works well but is pricey and often hard to find locally.  However, there is a great "alternative", Amsiol HDMP, which is available at many independent auto parts shops and NAPA auto parts stores. 

HDMP is absolutely identical to Frame Saver and I'm certain Weigel just has it repackaged with his name on the cans.   HDMP comes in a larger spray can then Frame Saver and costs less and applies and works the same way.  I've used it on two frames with great results and I highly recommend you get some and use it. 
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: Pat on July 12, 2012, 03:57:22 pm
Our LBS used boiled linseed oil.  They buy it by the gallon, and use it to coat the insides of everything.  They swear by it.

Pat
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: DaveB on July 12, 2012, 05:31:37 pm
Our LBS used boiled linseed oil.  They buy it by the gallon, and use it to coat the insides of everything.  They swear by it.

Pat
Linseed oil is a coating but that's all.  It's only advantage is low price and availability from any paint or hardware store.  It's also more difficult to apply properly, particularly to the chain and seat stays and fork blades and is very slow drying.   

Frame saver and HDMP contain rust inhibitors as well as a wax coating and are very thin and spray easily into even tiny vent holes and then are easy to distribute evenly before they dry which is rather quickly
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: Pat on July 13, 2012, 12:27:36 pm
Cool Dave - if that works for you.

Happy trails,

Pat
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: DaveB on July 13, 2012, 06:17:15 pm
Cool Dave - if that works for you.

Happy trails,

Pat
Actually, it works for anyone who uses it if you apply it properly.
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: waynemyer on July 13, 2012, 06:29:15 pm
Treating modern steel frames is just a talisman and products such as Frame Saver are only necessary to separate cyclists from their dollars. Unless you are regularly immersing your frame or exposing your frame to other catalysts, specifically salt, CrMo frames will form a small amount of surface oxidation and that's it. Seriously, when was the last time you even heard of a steel frame developing more rust than surface scaling?

More importantly, grease your seatpost and put on full coverage fenders. No more water in frame.
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: DaveB on July 14, 2012, 09:53:18 am
More importantly, grease your seatpost and put on full coverage fenders. No more water in frame.
The OP didn't find that to be the case
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: BobG on July 15, 2012, 08:23:55 pm
Seriously, when was the last time you even heard of a steel frame developing more rust than surface scaling?



I did about 20 years ago on my Bill Vetter touring frame. It had been professionally re-painted a couple of years before and looked brand new so I had no concerns about rust in the near future. A bubble of paint appeared on the top tube and this is what was below. I'm not certain, but I think the rust started on the surface perhaps caused by sweat dripping from above. It served me well though. One Trans Am and several long trips through the Rockies and France.



(http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae253/3bikes/Bill%20Vetter/rustout.jpg)
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: waynemyer on July 16, 2012, 03:42:19 pm
I did about 20 years ago on my Bill Vetter touring frame. It had been professionally re-painted a couple of years before and looked brand new so I had no concerns about rust in the near future. A bubble of paint appeared on the top tube and this is what was below. I'm not certain, but I think the rust started on the surface perhaps caused by sweat dripping from above. It served me well though. One Trans Am and several long trips through the Rockies and France.

So there's one.
More importantly, grease your seatpost and put on full coverage fenders. No more water in frame.
The OP didn't find that to be the case

I read the OP repeatedly. I don't see anything saying that the seatpost has been explicitly greased.
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: DaveB on July 16, 2012, 07:51:45 pm
More importantly, grease your seatpost and put on full coverage fenders. No more water in frame.
The OP didn't find that to be the case

I read the OP repeatedly. I don't see anything saying that the seatpost has been explicitly greased.
The OP didn't have problems with water getting into the seat tube.  He  wrote; "I tilted the bike up for some reason and orange water poured out through the weep holes on the chainstays."  Greasing the seatpost wouldn't have helped this. 

Actually, I don't expect a steel frame will rust through in any reasonable time unless subject to very frequent rain and/or salt conditions as in the Pacific Northwest or if ridden throughout the winter in the Northeast or Midweast.   However, Frame Saver/Amsoil HEDP are so cheap and so easy to apply that I see no reason to avoid them and they can do  a world of good if you really want to protect a steel frame long term.   

Case in point: I have an '83 Trek 400 lugged steel frame that was my rain/errand bike for many years.  I treated it with Frame Saver when I first got it (1998) and after 12 years of rain and abuse it is still completely solid and rust free.  And, yes, I've poured water out of the frame tubes after a heavy rain despite a lot of grease on the seatpost.  Cheap insurance.   
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: paddleboy17 on July 17, 2012, 12:01:29 pm
Treating modern steel frames is just a talisman and products such as Frame Saver are only necessary to separate cyclists from their dollars. Unless you are regularly immersing your frame or exposing your frame to other catalysts, specifically salt, CrMo frames will form a small amount of surface oxidation and that's it. Seriously, when was the last time you even heard of a steel frame developing more rust than surface scaling?

More importantly, grease your seatpost and put on full coverage fenders. No more water in frame.

In my neighborhood, they use road salt in the winter time, and I worry about my frame rusting out.  So I bought and applied frame saver.  It left a thick film on the inside of the frame, and I expect it to extend the life of the frame.
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: cara2u on September 15, 2012, 11:33:24 pm
   I use LPS on my steel frames. I think any of the above products are better than nothing at all.
Cara
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: dkoloko on September 16, 2012, 08:36:02 am
"Linseed oil is a coating but that's all.  It's only advantage is low price and availability from any paint or hardware store.  It's also more difficult to apply properly, particularly to the chain and seat stays and fork blades and is very slow drying."

Boiled linseed oil is boiled to accelerate drying.   
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: DaveB on September 16, 2012, 10:53:51 pm
"Linseed oil is a coating but that's all.  It's only advantage is low price and availability from any paint or hardware store.  It's also more difficult to apply properly, particularly to the chain and seat stays and fork blades and is very slow drying."

Boiled linseed oil is boiled to accelerate drying.
Yes but that doesn't make it dry fast, only faster than raw oil which takes forever to dry.   Also linseed oil is only a coating and has to rely on a film free of voids to work.  Frame Saver and Amsiol not only dry in a tiny fraction of the time of any type linseed oil but also contain specific corrosion inhibitors that protect far better than linseed oil.
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: rockermike on September 17, 2012, 11:45:36 am
so how long does it take to apply a coat of frame saver?  I assume you have to remove seatpost, bottom bracket, and fork? sounds like a 6 hour project to me? But I just got a new Surly and am heading to Africa. want to do it right before I leave.
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: DaveB on September 17, 2012, 06:19:46 pm
I've applied it to new completely bare frames or an older frame stripped completely with nothing on it but the headset cups.    It only took about 20 minutes to apply it but I gave it 24 hours to dry plus a seconf application the next day and an additional 24 hours to dry.  I rotated the frame several times after each application to insure even distrivution of the coating.  It's not something you do the day before leaving on a trip.
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: rockermike on October 11, 2012, 03:29:53 pm
yea the spraying and drying is one thing. but I'm worried more about the time to unbuild and rebuild the bike. I assume the fork and crank spindle have to be removed to do it correctly?
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: DaveB on October 12, 2012, 09:38:17 am
yea the spraying and drying is one thing. but I'm worried more about the time to unbuild and rebuild the bike. I assume the fork and crank spindle have to be removed to do it correctly?
Yes, at the least the fork, seatpost, and bottom bracket should be removed so you can reach the interior of all of the main tubes and stays.  You can leave the headset cups in place and any overspray or runs will clean up with mineral spirits, kerosene or WD-40.

Disassembly, if you have the needed tools and knowledge, shouldn't take more than 15- 20 minutes.   Reassembly will not be a whole lot longer.  If, for convenience, you disconnect all of the brake and shift cables to allow the bars and styem to be placed aside, add a bit of reassembly time to get the brakes and shifting reset.   Since this is a one-time job, doing it right is worth the effort.
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: irwin7638 on October 21, 2012, 06:01:19 pm
There is also a product called "LPS-3" which is an industrial strength rust inhibitor.  It's available at many ACE Hardware stores (find it near lubes like Boshield).  It really creates a nice coating and is a little cheaper than Boshield.  I use it ever couple of years on any bike I ride in the winter. It leaves a heavy duty wax based coating on metal.  There are two lighter grades, LPS-1 and 2, the LPS 1 makes a nice light spray lube which doesn't attract dirt.

Marc
Title: Re: Frame Saver or T-9?
Post by: DaveB on October 21, 2012, 08:35:21 pm
There is also a product called "LPS-3" which is an industrial strength rust inhibitor.  It's available at many ACE Hardware stores (find it near lubes like Boshield).  It really creates a nice coating and is a little cheaper than Boshield. 
LPS-3 is tweedle-dum/tweedle-dee with Frame Saver and Amsoil HDMP.  All three of them are basically the same product and do exactly the same thing the same way. Use whichever of them you can find locally.