Adventure Cycling Association Forum

Bicycle Travel => General Discussion => Topic started by: fiveonomo on November 16, 2015, 08:11:28 pm

 
Title: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 16, 2015, 08:11:28 pm
Hello all, I have a dilemma and thought I would post it here for some help.  I am going to build a touring bike and I am stuck on the Surly LHT.  With that said, I want the 700C wheels and not the 26".  The frames are built for 26" wheels through 54CM, 56CM starts the 700C wheels.  I ride a 54CM comfortably and was fitted to that size bike, a Cannondale Super Six. 

None of the shops in my area stock the Surly so I cannot go sit on it.  I am concerned about it fitting me, mainly the top tube.  It is extremely important for a bike to fit properly.  Many times the stem and or seat can be adjusted to make it work, however I feel like the proper way to get it right is to start with the correct sized frame.

My question is, I am 5'10" 215lbs.  I know there is a lot more that goes into fitting on a bike but I need to start somewhere.  Is there anyone out there riding a 56CM LHT that is my size?  If so are you comfortable?  Any help is appreciated.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: DaveB on November 17, 2015, 09:12:54 am
Some people make a fetish of this but I think agonizing over minute differences in frame dimensions is not necessary.  Measure the toptube length, standover, etc.  on your Cannondale and compare it to Surly's published geometry for the LHT.   Minor stem length and spacer adjustments and seatpost settings can easily make up for the differences and give you a comfortable ride.

Surly uses 26" wheels on their smaller frames to decrease standover height and minimize toe overlap for smaller riders while not having to modify frame geometry too much.   
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 17, 2015, 10:17:55 am
Thanks Dave, I think there is an argument for both sides of this discussion.  However I am leaning towards exactly what you replied.  I would love to hear any other thoughts.  I am new to this site and just paid for a membership, I am really loving it here, thanks. 
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: paddleboy17 on November 17, 2015, 01:07:15 pm
You really need to find a good bike shop to work with. 

They would have you come in with your current bike, watch you ride it and then extrapolate to the geometry of the LHT.  It is highly unlikely that some else that is  5'-10" has your torso length and leg length.  So I would not draw any conclusions from their experience.

I am a smart guy, but I cannot look at geometry charts for frames and say what will fit who.  I do know people who can, and they are generally people trained to fit custom frames.

Please find a good bike shop with a staffer you trust.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 17, 2015, 01:44:53 pm
Exactly what I was speaking of in reference frame size.  I am surrounded by really good shops, no one has the LHT on the floor.  I spent 4 hours with a gentleman when I was fitted for my Cannondale, he does not work for a bike shop but himself.  After the last 40 years racing bicycles in some way shape or form he has settled down and runs a fitting business, the guy is through.  I have this very long sheet of paper with all of my measurements and the tweaks and changes he did to my Cannondale, but that paper is not the same as sitting on the bike.  If I needed to re-set my bike now that paper would do it perfectly, but this is a different bike.  Not sure which way to go.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: paddleboy17 on November 17, 2015, 01:48:16 pm
Can you go back to the guy who fit you for your Cannondale and say "Will this LHT work?".
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 17, 2015, 01:55:10 pm
Thats a good idea, I think I will give him a call.  Not sure if he can help without having the bike but its worth a shot.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RussSeaton on November 17, 2015, 02:51:23 pm
I ride a 54CM comfortably and was fitted to that size bike, a Cannondale Super Six. 

My question is, I am 5'10" 215lbs.

I have a couple Cannondales.  Older CAAD7 and 9 aluminum models.  Maybe Cannondale sizes bikes differently now.  I am 5'11" tall and normal sized.  I ride 58cm Cannondale frames with a 12cm stem.  About 57cm toptube.  If you are a normal sized 5'10" tall, then your Cannondale is one size too small.  You should be on a 56cm Cannondale.  And a 56cm Surly LHT.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 17, 2015, 03:23:31 pm
Yeah, I have had people say I look big on the 54CM.  I was fitted for it and he said it fit nicely, I bought it used so it was what I had to work with.  I have put about 2000 miles on it and it is very comfortable, including a century or two and one back to back.  However I am a normal looking 5'10".  I stood over my cannonade and there is about an inch maybe before it is crammed into my crotch, maybe 1 1/2".
 
It's always neat to see the different opinions of people concerning frame/bike size.  Even from one pro fitter to another, I wish I could find that black and white answer but with all the variables that is just not possible.

The correct way is to get on the bike I intend to buy while on a trainer.  At this point make all of the adjustments and size corrections to see what fits and what does not.  Maybe I will extend my search for a shop that has a Surly LHT on the floor.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RussSeaton on November 17, 2015, 09:05:38 pm
Yeah, I have had people say I look big on the 54CM.  I was fitted for it and he said it fit nicely, I bought it used so it was what I had to work with.  I have put about 2000 miles on it and it is very comfortable, including a century or two and one back to back.  However I am a normal looking 5'10".  I stood over my cannonade and there is about an inch maybe before it is crammed into my crotch, maybe 1 1/2".

Your current bike was purchased used, so the fact it is not the right frame size is not surprising.  I used to have a 21 inch Trek 520 bike.  It fit me after I put a 12cm Nitto Technomic stem on it, raised to its maximum.  And modified the aluminum rails on my Ideale saddle to slide it backwards an extra inch.  I toured on the bike many thousands of miles.  It fit perfectly after my modifications.  But it was still not the right size bike for me.  I should have been on a 23 inch Trek 520 frame.  You can get many bike sizes to fit you.  And your 54cm Cannondale is not extremely small for you.  So with just a 13 or 14cm stem and raising the seatpost an extra inch or two, it will fit OK.  Professional bike racers often ride frames that are really one size too small for them.  And they use extra long stems and tall seatposts and it fits them.  They end up in the right position to ride 100s of miles day after day.  But it still does not mean its the right size bike for them.  At a normal 5'10" you need a bike frame with a 56 or 56.5cm toptube.  I am a normal 5'11" and I ride bikes with 57 or 57.5cm toptubes.  And 12cm stems.  And setback seatposts with the saddles slid all the way back.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 17, 2015, 09:16:58 pm
Thanks Russ.  The guy that did the fitting told me that he would have put me on a 54, I don't know, he didn't really have anything invested to tell me that.  I was inclined to make the 54 work anyway, I got lucky and found a $5000 bike a couple years old for $1800.  I got a few other things with the deal, a kirk kinetics trainer and roof rack.  Na, it wasn't stolen, my profession allows me to check things like that and besides my co-worker would have been charged with the crime, not good for his career path.

I really feel like the 56 will work.  I may go order the frame and build it, if it doesn't work maybe I can sell it but I really think the 54 will work fine.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RussSeaton on November 18, 2015, 01:26:57 pm
You are "lucky", in that both the 54 and 56cm frames can fit you without too extreme of measures.  On the 56 you will look right by everyone who sees you.  If a frame fits you, you will look right on it.  On the 54 you may have to use a longer stem than really ideal.  Maybe a bit more seatpost sticking up.  Maybe the saddle pushed way back further than on the 56 frame.  Maybe extra spacers to get the bars high enough because the 54 frame will have a shorter headtube and the bars will therefore be lower.  If you add all these somewhat easy and normal modifications together, people looking at you on the bike may say "the bike is a little too small".  Not extremely too small, but still too small.  Doing one of these modifications to get the frame to fit, that is OK.  But you may have to do all of them to get the slightly too small frame to fit.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: indyfabz on November 19, 2015, 10:01:16 am
The frames are built for 26" wheels through 54CM, 56CM starts the 700C wheels.

A point of clarification in case it matters to you: For the regular LHT, you can get the 26" version across the full range of sizes. In the Disc Trucker, you can get 26" version up to 58cm. Thus, if you can get a 56cm for either 700c or 26".
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: DaveB on November 19, 2015, 10:44:52 am
The frames are built for 26" wheels through 54CM, 56CM starts the 700C wheels.

A point of clarification in case it matters to you: For the regular LHT, you can get the 26" version across the full range of sizes. In the Disc Trucker, you can get 26" version up to 58cm. Thus, if you can get a 56cm for either 700c or 26".
Yes but the OP is trying to AVOID 26" wheels.  His problem is that the 54 cm Disc Trucker only comes with 26" wheels and he wants 700c which start at 56 cm. 
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 20, 2015, 07:00:04 pm
DaveB is exactly correct.  Today I ordered the 56 and paid for it, I should have the frame and fork on Tuesday.  First thing is off to the powder coat guys to work their magic.  Now I need to figure out what part to build first.  I was looking at the Cane Creek Head Sets but I am not sure exactly what I am looking at.  Some are longer than others, I understand this is because you can change the size or fit, i'm just not sure what to get.  Since I am building this bike without actually sitting on one.  I am confident that I will be ok, worst case scenario I try to recoup some of my money and sell it, but that is a last...last....last resort.

Any ideas on the headset?  I think I need to have bearings pressed into the frame, not sure.  This is my first build and will be a learning process but I think in the end it will be worth it as I should learn quite a bit along the way.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RussSeaton on November 21, 2015, 12:18:08 am
Looking at the Surly website, it appears your LHT frame takes normal 1 1/8" headsets.  It has a top and bottom cup that is pressed into the headtube.  These cups hold the bearings.  Fork goes up the center of the bearings.  Surly puts a Cane Creek 40 headset on the bikes they sell complete.  You can buy that and be pretty sure it will work.  Or another normal headset.  You can take the cups and frame to a bike shop and they can press the cups into the frame in about 1 minute.  Or you can buy your own headset press and press the cups in.  Or do it cheap and buy a long bolt or threaded rod.  12 inches or so.  Then use this bolt and washers and nuts to press the cups in yourself.  There isn't anything complicated about it.  I have a 2 foot threaded rod about 1 inch diameter.  Has a couple nuts on either end and four big washers about 2 inch diameter.  Works fine on the half dozen or so headset cups I have pressed in over the years.  Normally once you press in the cups, you never take the cups out again.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 21, 2015, 06:58:01 am
Thanks Russ, I really appreciate it.  I have been around bikes my whole life, but now turning 45 in a few days I would like to build one.  This bike will carry me on some tours and when I retire in 12 years I want to take a long extended tour and this will be the bike I plan to ride.  By building it I should understand how the whole thing works, so I really appreciate the help.
The cups (bearings) that get pressed in....Do they come with the Cane Creek Headset that I buy or are they separate? While we are on bearings/cups are the same type of cups/bearings pressed into the bottom bracket?  I found a bottom bracket that fits but I am guessing that has bearings pressed in to.
Thats a great idea about the threaded rod.  I see know reason why that would not work, maybe I will try that.     
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 21, 2015, 07:00:18 am
I think I am going to pick up that Park Tools repair manual from my shop today, that has to be of some help.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 21, 2015, 07:36:11 am
I watched a video and it looks like the bearings/cups are part of the headset you buy.  So I am guessing If I buy a Cane Creek 40 (comes stock on this bike) I will have all the parts that I will need to install the headset.  Am I correct?
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: DaveB on November 21, 2015, 09:36:09 am
As Russ noted, the LHT takes a conventional press-in 1-1/8" threadless headset (not an "integrated" type) and the Cane Creek 40 would be an excellent choice.  So would a Chris King if cost is not a factor. Those headsets comes with all the needed parts but not the installation tools.  Since headset installation is usually a one-time thing for most riders, I recommend you have a bike shop do it.  The specialty tools (and skills) needed to press in the cups and seat the crown race can be home made or purchased but aren't worth it for the infrequent use. 

The shop could also cut the fork steerer to your required length after you determine what that is.  Initially, leave the steerer extra long and use spacers above and below the stem until you determine where you want your handlebars to be.  Even then, leave a bit of extra steerer length to allow a 10 mm or so spacer above the stem after the steerer is cut to allow later adjustment.  You can always cut it shorter but I've never discovered how to cut it longer.  :D

As to having the frame powder coated, unless you find the stock color unacceptable, be aware that Surly's are now factory powder coated so the finish is durable and not fragile as they were in the past. It also means your powder coater will have to remove the factory powder so be certain they are aware they are dealing with thin wall tubing and don't do irreparable harm by too aggressive blasting.  Not every powder coater knows how to handle bike frames properly.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 21, 2015, 10:49:23 am
Thanks Dave, solid advice and I really appreciate the help.  This sounds terrible but I just cannot do the color.  I figured since I was building the bike I would truly make it mine.  The powder coat company is very well known and has a great reputation.  They do bikes and when speaking to the guy it sounded like he knew exactly what I was talking about.  Im going to call him back, maybe this morning, and make sure he clearly understands.  Thanks again for the advice and knowledge.  I will keep this thread up to date on my progress.
Title: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RonK on November 21, 2015, 04:58:35 pm
Park Tool offers a home mechanics headset press (http://www.parktool.com/product/home-mechanic-bearing-cup-press-hhp-3), but you will see that it is little more than the threaded rod with plate washers mentioned in previous posts. I have one and it works well.
Chris King headsets are great but you will also need the special CK pressing kit and a crown race installer.
The Cane Creek 40 is a good choice for a home build since it has a split crown race so the headset press is the only tool required.
Having recently purchased a Cane Creek 40 I think I can anticipate your next question. Which one? It is offered in 40 standard configurations. Upper and lower assemblies are also sold separately to add to the likely confusion.
However I believe configuration used in the LHT is the 40.EC34 (http://www.canecreek.com/products/headsets/forty).
The type of bottom bracket will be determined by your choice of chainset. Square taper cartridge type bb's are the most commonly used on touring bikes, but modern chainsets may use a hollow axle  and external bearings. Both are easy to install but you will need the right tools for each one. It is worth consider the purchase of a home mechanics toolkit which would usually include standard bb tools and more.
Steerers are easily cut to size with a hacksaw using a pair of worm drive hose clamps as a cutting guide, but my tip would be to leave it uncut if possible. On a touring bike the rule of thumb is for handlebar height to be roughly the same as saddle height. You may need an angled stem to achieve this even with the steerer uncut.

I have acquired most of the components I need for my third bike build. It is satisfying and addictive.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RussSeaton on November 21, 2015, 05:09:11 pm
The bottom bracket is similar to the headset.  Except you thread in the bottom bracket cups instead of pressing the cups in the headtube.  Bearings just slip into the cups once installed.  Your Surly frame will have standard British/ISO threading on the bottom bracket.  The threading is different on both sides.  Here is what Park Tool says about the threading on your Surly frame.

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/#article-section-2
"Most modern bikes use an ISO thread standard for the bottom bracket. The left side thread is a right-hand direction thread, which tightens clockwise and removes counter-clockwise. This standard is also called English or BSC. The right side (drive side) thread is a left-hand thread, which tightens counter-clockwise and remove clockwise."

Tighten the cups by turning towards the rear wheel.  Loosen by turning towards the front wheel.

Any normal mountain or road crankets and bottom brackets will work in the frame.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: DaveB on November 21, 2015, 07:00:21 pm
Your Surly frame will have standard British/ISO threading on the bottom bracket.  The threading is different on both sides.  Here is what Park Tool says about the threading on your Surly frame.

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/#article-section-2
"Most modern bikes use an ISO thread standard for the bottom bracket. The left side thread is a right-hand direction thread, which tightens clockwise and removes counter-clockwise. This standard is also called English or BSC. The right side (drive side) thread is a left-hand thread, which tightens counter-clockwise and remove clockwise."

Any normal mountain or road crankets and bottom brackets will work in the frame.
Mostly correct.  Yes the Surly will definitely have an English threaded bottom bracket which installs as the Park Tool web site describes.  However, there are a lot of non-"normal", non-English compatible bottom bracket and matching cranks out there these days.  There are several competing and mutually incompatible press-fit designs that take 30 mm spindles and won't fit the more common 24 mm Shimano Hollowtech II cranks or older square taper cartridges. 

So, be sure you a crank compatible with an English threaded square taper or English threaded external cup bottom bracket.   
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 21, 2015, 09:23:50 pm
Thanks for the help guys!  RonK that was my next question as the web site is somewhat intimidating.  I picked up the Park Tools maintenance manual this evening, looks like an awesome book.  Im excited! 
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RussSeaton on November 22, 2015, 12:48:12 pm
"Any normal mountain or road crankets and bottom brackets will work in the frame."

When I say normal I imply Shimano cranks and bottom brackets.  The dominant name in bike parts.  All Shimano bottom brackets and cranks use the external cups that thread into the bottom bracket threads.  The cups hold the bearings and the cranks go through the bearings.  Two piece crank with the non drive side tightening everything together.

No press fit cranks or bottom brackets will work with the threaded Surly frame.  Press fit requires the frame to have a space molded into the frame so you can press the bearings directly into the frame, no separate cups involved.  Generally only higher end road/race bikes use this system.  Not Surly.

As for square taper bottom brackets, those have not been made in almost 15 years.  I'm guessing Shimano still makes some for the cheapest parts they sell.  But they are almost rare now days.  If building a bike new, you won't even come across these cranks and bottom brackets.  You would have to search in the attic, inside the trunk, under the newspapers to even find a square taper bottom bracket and crankset.  Its about like talking about freewheels, 5,6, or 7 speed, if someone asked about building a rear wheel and what gearing to use on their bike.  Phil Wood still makes and sells hubs for freewheels.  Not sure who makes the freewheels.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: DaveB on November 22, 2015, 01:44:39 pm
Everything you wrote is correct and I'm well aware of all of it except it's too simplified. 

Certainly Shimano is the dominant name and supplier of OEM and aftermarket bike parts and Hollowtech II (24 mm spindle) in various product lines is a de facto standard.   But they are not alone.  FSA is a very common supplier of OEM cranks as a cost savings measure and many of them use non-English bottom bracket designs.  Also, SRAM and many others also use 30 mm spindles and one of the many press-fit variations and none of these fit an English threaded shell.

Shimano has pretty much abandoned the touring triple road market, SRAM was never in it and Campy doesn't under stand touring bikes at all so finding a usefully geared crank is not nearly as easy as it once was.  The closest touring suitable road Shimano triple crank  you can now get is a 10-speed FC-5603 (105) or 9-speed FC-4503 (Tiagra) which retain 130/74 BDC drilling so you can use a granny down to 24T to replace the factory 30T.  These are both out of production so you have to find either one as NOS.

Shimano's "Trekking" cranks have suitable touring gearing and English compatible Hollowtech II bottom brackets but aren't distributed in the US and you have to get one from a European (mostly German) dealer. MTB cranks are still a possibility but are also moving to odd-ball bottom brackets and strange gearing choices.

Square taper may indeed be "obsolete" except Suguino still makes several high quality cranks using that bottom bracket type and some (e.g. XD600 and XD2 Triples) are particularly suited to touring bikes so you can't write them off as a non-issue. In fact, they may be the best choice currently available.

 
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RonK on November 22, 2015, 03:27:51 pm
As for square taper bottom brackets, those have not been made in almost 15 years...

You would have to search in the attic, inside the trunk, under the newspapers to even find a square taper bottom bracket and crankset.
Err no,  square taper bb's are common, cheap, and widely available, and for those reasons remain the choice of cycle tourists.

And they are original equipment on the Long Haul Trucker (http://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker/bike_specs).

Crankset
Andel RSC6, 26/36/48t. Square taper interface. Silver

Bottom Bracket
Shimano UN-55, Square taper interface. 68 x 118mm
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 24, 2015, 01:21:41 pm
Hey guys, I was looking at the brakes for my Disc Trucker.  The spec sheet lists Avid BB7 G2's 160mm rotors.  I like these brakes a lot and will probably stay with them.  I think these are mountain brakes, am I correct?
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: indyfabz on November 24, 2015, 03:49:24 pm
The frames are built for 26" wheels through 54CM, 56CM starts the 700C wheels.

A point of clarification in case it matters to you: For the regular LHT, you can get the 26" version across the full range of sizes. In the Disc Trucker, you can get 26" version up to 58cm. Thus, if you can get a 56cm for either 700c or 26".
Yes but the OP is trying to AVOID 26" wheels.  His problem is that the 54 cm Disc Trucker only comes with 26" wheels and he wants 700c which start at 56 cm.
DOH! Sorry. Missed that crucial detail.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: indyfabz on November 24, 2015, 04:07:37 pm
This sounds terrible but I just cannot do the color.  I figured since I was building the bike I would truly make it mine.  The powder coat company is very well known and has a great reputation.  They do bikes and when speaking to the guy it sounded like he knew exactly what I was talking about.  Im going to call him back, maybe this morning, and make sure he clearly understands.

Do they do Cerakote applications? Back in May I had my custom ti road frame colored with Cerakote. It's a ceramic coating that is allegedly stronger and lighter than paint. Some of the builder's MTB customers have been using it. The colors are matte, but if they are custom blended them with the gloss white you get a sort of pearl finish. The downside is that if you do get a chip you cannot purchase touch up "paint."

The stuff is primarily used to coat firearms, but more and more people have been using it for bikes:

http://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/gallery/?category_id=249

This is the bike my builder built for himself last year. The photo doesn't do it justice:

http://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/gallery/detail/10744/Cerakote-Custom-Mix-of-H137-Gloss-White-and-H169-Sky-Blue/

Paintbytodd also did my frame.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 24, 2015, 04:49:23 pm
Indy that bike is sweet.  I have not asked but it says on their web site that they do ceramic instead of powder coating if you choose to go that way, not sure if it is the same thing.

I just got my frame today.  The blue is not that bad, as a matter of fact nowhere near as bad, but I still want my custom color.  I didn't realize it but my frame comes with the place to mount shifters on the down tube.  I was not planning on putting them there.  Do you guys know if all the Disc Trucker frames come that way?  I guess if I didn't want to mount my shifters there I don't have to.

Oh well, what a pretty frame.  I really appreciate this site and having a means to talk to you guys through this process.  Thanks to everyone for their input.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RonK on November 24, 2015, 10:21:54 pm

I didn't realize it but my frame comes with the place to mount shifters on the down tube.  I was not planning on putting them there.  Do you guys know if all the Disc Trucker frames come that way?  I guess if I didn't want to mount my shifters there I don't have to.
That is where you mount the cable stops, but you could mount downtube shifters there if that was your preference.

Sounds like you haven't thought about shifters yet?
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: DaveB on November 24, 2015, 10:29:18 pm
I didn't realize it but my frame comes with the place to mount shifters on the down tube.  I was not planning on putting them there.  Do you guys know if all the Disc Trucker frames come that way?  I guess if I didn't want to mount my shifters there I don't have to.
Those downtube mounting bosses are standard on nearly all Surly road frames.  Both my Cross Check and Pacer also have them. 

They are a feature, not a bug, and you are by no means limited to downtube shifters.  Shimano (and others) make cable housing stops that bolt to these bosses and let you use nearly any type of shifter you wish including brifters, barends, Retroshifts, etc.   Note these strops come in rounded back type for "standard" (1-1/8") diameter downtubes and flat back for larger diameter downtubes.

Also, a pair of these came with every Shimano aftermarket STI sets and most barend sets.  So, many bike dealers have a bunch of these as surplus and will sell them cheaply or even give them to you if you are a good customer.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 24, 2015, 10:49:15 pm
Thanks guys.  I have thought of shifters just haven't made up my mind.  I was thinking of something more up to date but I understand that those systems can be a little tougher to fix in a pinch.  My Di2 system on my Super Six would not be a good fit.  I am going to install the shifters on the down tube, I like that idea.  Since there is a place for them to be mounted it just makes sense.  I don't want bar end, down tube it is.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: DaveB on November 25, 2015, 09:48:54 am
Thanks guys.  I have thought of shifters just haven't made up my mind.  I was thinking of something more up to date but I understand that those systems can be a little tougher to fix in a pinch.  My Di2 system on my Super Six would not be a good fit.  I am going to install the shifters on the down tube, I like that idea.  Since there is a place for them to be mounted it just makes sense.  I don't want bar end, down tube it is.
Having ridden quite a lot with downtube shifters in the past, I recommend that you reconsider using them for a touring bike.  They are reliable and precise but about as inconvenient as you can get if you need to shift in a hurry because you got surprised by the terrain.  Barends are better but not by much.  Brifters are, by far, the most convenient shifters but, as you note, can be difficult to impossible to fix if they fail. 

So, an alternative:  Check out  gevenalle.com  (formerly Retroshift).  They make brake lever mounted brackets that come with mounted shift levers (or accept your own downtube levers or barend shift levers) and are available in 9,10 and 11-speed versions and with brake levers for road/cantilever/road disc or V-brake/MTB disc brakes.   These levers also offer a friction option for rear shifting in the unlikely event the indexing is a problem due to damage, etc.   They offer the convenience and rapid accessibility of brifters with the durability and low replacement cost of downtube levers.    I have them on three bikes, two 10-speed and one 8-speed, and for convenience, cost and reliability, would never go back to anything else.


Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 25, 2015, 03:32:27 pm
DaveB thanks.  I really appreciate the insight.  I have never even ridden a bike with shifters on the down tube or the bar ends.  I have not been to crazy about the thougth of bar end shifters, I just dont think I would like them.  I wasnt crazy about the down tube either but I have to admit, at least for me, there is something sexy about that retro look and the simplicity of shifters on the down tube.  It makes perfect sense about what you say and I do beleive that you are correct.  I would love to hear from someone who is using down tube shifters, just another opinion.  Im coming from the Di2 electronic shifting so allof this will be new to me.

I will definately have to check out gevenalle.com.  I am not sure I understand exactly, it's not your explanaion just me.  I am going to you tube them and maybe I can find something there.  Thanks again. 
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 25, 2015, 03:46:28 pm
DaveB I went and looked at the gevenalle shifters, nice!  I have never seen those before.  Youtube has some good videos showing them in action.  One guy mounted a shifter on the down tube, for the chainrings and then had the one for the rear cogs on the right brake.  Pretty cool.  I am going to do some more research, I like these.

What do i do with the spot on my down tube?  The place for the shifters to mount.  Do I just cap these things?  Thanks for sharing this.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RonK on November 25, 2015, 04:23:29 pm

What do i do with the spot on my down tube?  The place for the shifters to mount.  Do I just cap these things?
As previously posted, you mount the cable stops on them. That is the point where the cable housing ends.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 25, 2015, 04:51:27 pm
Thanks Ron, im an idiot.  I remember someone saying that earlier.  I found a picture of that on the net, thanks.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 26, 2015, 10:16:29 am
Ok, ordered the Cane Creek headset, any thoughts on a stem and bars?  I think I want the standard drop bars but not sure what companies to start with.  What I have read tells me that the stem needs to fit to the bars and stem to headset.......obviously.  What are the name of the bars that look like regular old drop bars but the drops kind of flare out a little?  What exactly is there purpose?  I had never seen them until I started building this bike. 
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RonK on November 26, 2015, 04:22:11 pm
I think the flared bars you mentioned are probably Salsa Woodchippers. These are intended for MTB's and adventure bikes such as the Salsa Fargo I'm currently building.
I suggest you consider a Nitto Noodle bar or Randonneur bar.
The Noodle bar has slight backwards sweep. I have it on my tourer and find it quite comfortable.
The Randonneur bar has a slight flare to the drops. 
If you do choose Nitto, take care when ordering that you get the right diameter. There are two. Which diameter doesn't much matter as long as it matches the stem.
A Nitto stem would be nice but not essential.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RussSeaton on November 26, 2015, 04:49:14 pm
Regarding the flared drop handlebars.  Rivendell sells the Nitto bars mentioned.  Velo-Orange also has a few flared handlebars.  A Google search for "Randonneur" handlebars may also turn up flared bars.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 26, 2015, 05:10:33 pm
Thanks guys.  Do those bars serve a special purpose or are they just another set of bars?  I guess what I am asking is are they built specifically for a certain riding style?
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RonK on November 26, 2015, 05:22:48 pm

Thanks guys.  Do those bars serve a special purpose or are they just another set of bars?  I guess what I am asking is are they built specifically for a certain riding style?
They are built for a frame with a short top tube and a long head tube such as the Fargo
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 26, 2015, 06:04:18 pm
Thanks Ron.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 26, 2015, 06:36:46 pm
I just remembered I had a brand new stem that I got when I bought a bike used from a guy.  It was one he had laying with the bike and threw it in.  I saw online that it fits the 1 1/8" fork tube (my bike) and can fit 1" with the shim.  It is a Profile Design ARIS, it has some numbers on it but I am not sure what they mean.  On the end that connects to my fork tube it reads  9- 10N.m and under that line E:100mm +25 degrees.  Then where it connects to the bars (funny symbol) 31.8, under that line: 5-6N.m, under that line:  H1203A.

Im sure those markings tell me what fork tube I should be using and what size handlebar I just don't know.  The stem has quite the lift but I would think that would be good as I am trying to achieve a more comfortable riding position.  You guys think this stem is usable?
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 26, 2015, 08:16:37 pm
I did a little reading in the Park Tools manual and looked at the net.  The stem size and the bar size should match, a difference of 0.1 is acceptable but no other.  My stem is a 31.8 so I need the bars to be 31.8.  Sounds right.
Title: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RonK on November 26, 2015, 10:38:10 pm
Yes, you will need a 31.8mm diameter handlebar to go with that stem.

The numbers refer to the tightening torque of the screws (in newton-metres), the length, angle, and bar clamping diameter. 

At 100mm it may be a bit long, although the angle will effectively shorten it.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 27, 2015, 11:05:23 am
Thanks Ron.  Since I already have it I think I will try it and then I can make the change if I need to.  It also has a sticker on the underside that gives you all of the torque settings.  As always, thanks for everyone's help and advice, Im definately learning.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: DaveB on November 27, 2015, 11:06:31 am
I did a little reading in the Park Tools manual and looked at the net.  The stem size and the bar size should match, a difference of 0.1 is acceptable but no other.  My stem is a 31.8 so I need the bars to be 31.8.  Sounds right.
31.8 mm handlebar and stem clamp sizes are almost the norm these days so finding matching ones is very easy.  Be aware that you will see some handlebars and stems listed as 31.7 mm but these are identical to and interchangeable with "31.8 mm"  The difference is that the true diameter is 1-1/8" or 31.75 mm.  Most makers round the diameter up to 31.8 mm.  A few round down to 31.7 mm but I've always thought this was a bit of a scam to make you think you have to buy both their bars and stem together. 
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RussSeaton on November 27, 2015, 01:48:15 pm
Do those bars serve a special purpose or are they just another set of bars?  I guess what I am asking is are they built specifically for a certain riding style?

They are handlebars for a bike.  Road style bike.  The purpose today is they are for the older, slower long distance rider.  Randonneur is a long distance riding style.  If you look at the historical (40s 50s) pictures of European bicycle racers, you will often see flared handlebars on their bikes.  And more upright riding positions with stems showing.  The tiny bike with the seat as high as possible and the bars as low as possible is a newer look.  In olden times the racers raced 100+ miles everyday for 8 months on less than smooth roads.  Sometimes dirt or gravel roads.  So having a comfortable bike was more important than a super aerodynamic bike.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 27, 2015, 09:11:21 pm
Thanks guys.  I like the Randonneur bars, will they work with the retroshifters brake caliper mounted levers?
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: DaveB on November 28, 2015, 09:01:48 am
Thanks guys.  I like the Randonneur bars, will they work with the retroshifters brake caliper lever mounted levers?
Yes, they have the same diameter at the brake lever mount area as other road bars. 
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: CanvasAndSteel on November 28, 2015, 09:06:27 am
After reading through all of this I have two recommendations for you. One would be to Google "LHT Build." That will give you umpteen thousand iterations of how different people built up their LHTs. The other would be to go the the Surly Bicycles group on Facebook. The members will be able to give you immediate and accurate advice (meaning you won't be told that square taper bottom brackets are no longer made or that they are, but just basic, inexpensive ones). By the way, you'll love your bike. I built up Surly Trolls for my wife and me.

Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: CanvasAndSteel on November 28, 2015, 10:07:11 am
An addendum to my recent post. This goes into good detail on why square taper and ISIS bottom brackets, that use larger bearings, are more durable than Hollowtech, etc that use smaller bearings. https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/skf-bottom-brackets-after-5-years/.

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Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RussSeaton on November 28, 2015, 06:01:43 pm
(meaning you won't be told that square taper bottom brackets are no longer made or that they are, but just basic, inexpensive ones).  I built up Surly Trolls for my wife and me.

I'll admit I was surprised Sugino still makes square taper cranks.  I have not heard of Sugino since the mid 1980s.  Did not even know they still existed.  As for the ones Surly uses on its complete bikes.  They are some Chinese company I have never heard of.  Shimano abandoned square tapers on its upper models in the late 1990s or so.  They may still make square taper cranks for the cheapest bikes they equip.  But not on the upper levels.  I have several Dura Ace square taper cranks.  And Campagnolo square taper cranks.  All over 15 years old.  Not sure I would recommend someone build up a bike using parts 15 or more years old.  Just like I would not recommend someone build up a bike using 7 or 8 speed parts.  The biking world has moved on.

Not sure how square taper bottom brackets can use larger bearings than Shimano Hollowtech.  Square taper bottom brackets go inside the bottom bracket shell on the frame.  Its a tube about 1.375" diameter.  Hollowtech shells are about 1.875" diameter.  About half inch larger because the Hollowtech shells that hold the bottom bracket bearings are outside the frame's bottom bracket tube, which is about 1.375" diameter.  With the larger Hollowtech shell you end up with more and bigger bearings.  But anyway, bottom brackets are fairly durable and rarely give any problems.  The problem with square taper sealed bottom brackets is there are not many or any higher end cranks built for them anymore.  The Sugino mentioned above are probably nice.  I have good memories of Sugino from about 30 years ago.

Jan Heine, the link you provided, runs a magazine and a bicycle parts company.  A company that sells the square taper bottom brackets you are fond of.  He might have a vested interest.  Kind of like when a bike magazine recommends a bike and then you see advertisements in the magazine from that same bike brand.  Makes you wonder if the magazine selling advertisements to the bike company can be trusted to do an objective review of the bike.  They are paid by the bike company.

You say you are a Surly owner.  Do you know anything about Surly?  Surly is a brand name created by QBP.  QBP is the largest bike parts distributor in the US.  QBP is based in Minneapolis.  QBP supplies all the stuff to your local bike shop.  QBP saw an opportunity in the biking world.  People were fond of old biking parts for some reason.  Not sure why because old bike parts never worked as nicely as newer parts.  But QBP wanted to capitalize on this fondness people had for the old days.  So they created the Surly brand.  All Surly stuff is made in China.  QBP has many contacts in China because they import all the stuff they distribute from China.  QBP knows China very well.  QBP had Surly bike frames made in China from cheap Chinese steel.  China is a huge steel producer.  Hopefully QBP monitors closely the Chinese factories making the Surly frames.  QBP can sell its Surly frames pretty cheaply in the US because it makes them very cheaply in China and still make a good profit.  Good business plan.  QBP already distributes to every bike shop in the US so they have the distribution network already established.  Sell Surly frames and parts to the same shops they already serve.  QBP saw the niche for old style nostalgic bike parts and they filled it with the Surly brand creation.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: DaveB on November 28, 2015, 06:15:12 pm
An addendum to my recent post. This goes into good detail on why square taper and ISIS bottom brackets, that use larger bearings, are more durable than Hollowtech, etc that use smaller bearings. https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/skf-bottom-brackets-after-5-years/.
ISIS had a well deserved reputation for being an unreliable and fragile bottom bracket design since the patent was in the public domain and anyone could, and did, make them. Most SIS bottom brackets were cheap and unreliable.   Shimano's Hollowtech I Octalink design was similar but far better constructed and more durable.   Both used smaller bearings than either square taper or external bearing designs.   Like Russ, I take Jan Heine's recommendations with a lot of salt.

As to Surly, I think Russ gives them too little credit.  Yes, they are a QBP house brand provide many niche products the big makers (Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, etc.) neglect and provide durable  well made frames at very reasonable cost.   They are not made of "cheap Chinese steel" but of decent quality Chinese Cr-Mo steel and assembled with good quality welds and properly aligned.  They are far more than "nostalgic" and, indeed, pretty much invented the current "Fat Bike" design.
Title: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RonK on November 28, 2015, 07:05:05 pm
It takes little effort to discover that many of the world's best touring bikes are still built with square taper cranks.

The reasons for this are simple - they are cheap, reliable and easily sourced. Replacement parts and the tools needed to fit them are available almost anywhere in the world.

And it's not only low end Chinese manufacturers that produce them - Phil Wood components are about as high end as you can get. For anyone setting out in a world tour, Phil's bb (and hubs) would probably be the best choice.

As far as cranksets go, there is no shortage of quality square taper cranksets available which are perfectly suited to the demands of touring.

In fact a simple Google search will return countless offerings.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: CanvasAndSteel on November 28, 2015, 07:42:25 pm
(meaning you won't be told that square taper bottom brackets are no longer made or that they are, but just basic, inexpensive ones).  I built up Surly Trolls for my wife and me.

I'll admit I was surprised Sugino still makes square taper cranks.  I have not heard of Sugino since the mid 1980s.  Did not even know they still existed.  As for the ones Surly uses on its complete bikes.  They are some Chinese company I have never heard of.  Shimano abandoned square tapers on its upper models in the late 1990s or so.  They may still make square taper cranks for the cheapest bikes they equip.  But not on the upper levels.  I have several Dura Ace square taper cranks.  And Campagnolo square taper cranks.  All over 15 years old.  Not sure I would recommend someone build up a bike using parts 15 or more years old.  Just like I would not recommend someone build up a bike using 7 or 8 speed parts.  The biking world has moved on.

Not sure how square taper bottom brackets can use larger bearings than Shimano Hollowtech.  Square taper bottom brackets go inside the bottom bracket shell on the frame.  Its a tube about 1.375" diameter.  Hollowtech shells are about 1.875" diameter.  About half inch larger because the Hollowtech shells that hold the bottom bracket bearings are outside the frame's bottom bracket tube, which is about 1.375" diameter.  With the larger Hollowtech shell you end up with more and bigger bearings.  But anyway, bottom brackets are fairly durable and rarely give any problems.  The problem with square taper sealed bottom brackets is there are not many or any higher end cranks built for them anymore.  The Sugino mentioned above are probably nice.  I have good memories of Sugino from about 30 years ago.

Jan Heine, the link you provided, runs a magazine and a bicycle parts company.  A company that sells the square taper bottom brackets you are fond of.  He might have a vested interest.  Kind of like when a bike magazine recommends a bike and then you see advertisements in the magazine from that same bike brand.  Makes you wonder if the magazine selling advertisements to the bike company can be trusted to do an objective review of the bike.  They are paid by the bike company.

You say you are a Surly owner.  Do you know anything about Surly?  Surly is a brand name created by QBP.  QBP is the largest bike parts distributor in the US.  QBP is based in Minneapolis.  QBP supplies all the stuff to your local bike shop.  QBP saw an opportunity in the biking world.  People were fond of old biking parts for some reason.  Not sure why because old bike parts never worked as nicely as newer parts.  But QBP wanted to capitalize on this fondness people had for the old days.  So they created the Surly brand.  All Surly stuff is made in China.  QBP has many contacts in China because they import all the stuff they distribute from China.  QBP knows China very well.  QBP had Surly bike frames made in China from cheap Chinese steel.  China is a huge steel producer.  Hopefully QBP monitors closely the Chinese factories making the Surly frames.  QBP can sell its Surly frames pretty cheaply in the US because it makes them very cheaply in China and still make a good profit.  Good business plan.  QBP already distributes to every bike shop in the US so they have the distribution network already established.  Sell Surly frames and parts to the same shops they already serve.  QBP saw the niche for old style nostalgic bike parts and they filled it with the Surly brand creation.
Wow. That's quite a rant.

Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: CanvasAndSteel on November 29, 2015, 02:57:53 pm
Now that I'm at my keyboard and not thumbing on my phone I can give a fuller response.

Yes, Sugino makes some very fine square taper bottom brackets, as does Stronglight.  Shimano, as you noted, makes squre taper for their more affordable cranks, as does Origin 8, Sram and several others.  But the bike industry has not moved on from square taper because of performance issues.  Indeed, square taper bottom brackets will outperform and long outlast and external bottom brackets, partly because of the difference in size of the bearings (significant difference with loose or caged balls, less so with cartridge bearings). 

The cycling industry was not addressing a performance issue when it moved on from square taper, but a production issue.  With external bottom brackets they needed to make only one size and hand out spacers with them, whereas square tapered bottom brackets required different length spindles.  A one size fits all solution allowed parts companies to save money.  It also simpliefied things at the shop, as anyone with a torque wrench and the special bb tool for each different bottom bracket could install it.  There was no skill or experience required, such as preloading the cup on the square taper.  Spin a well adjusted crankset on a square taper and watch the think go round 15-20 times.  Do the same with an external bb and it will go around 2, maybe three times.

As for quality cranks for square taper bottom brackets, there are a few out there.  There are clearly fewer than for the external bottom brackets, but how many does one need?  And, even better, they aren't of the ugly aluminum pie plate sort so common with modern cranksets (certainly my personal opinion).

As for durability, most external bottom brackets are basically disposable, with the best of them lasting for a few years of hard use and the worst of them requiring replacement after every season.  Square taper bottom brackets can easily last for decades and many thousands of miles.  Most people would prefer to replace their bottom brackets than do the maintenance that will keep a square taper bottom bracket spinning as new, but it's not a quality or performance issue.

As for QBP and Surly, yes, I know of QBP (I live in the Twin Cities), and, yes, I'm aware Surly is a subsidiary of QBP.  But Surly has been responsible for significant innovation in the last decade or so.  And appeal of their bikes is broader than retro grouches.  As another poster mentioned, they (along with 9-Zero-7) are almost singularly responsible for fat bikes.  The Troll is a more versatile frame than anyone else is building.  I could go on.  As for "cheap Chinese steel," 4130 Chromoly is 4130 Chromoly, and I can't fault the welding at the tube joints.  In addition, it's only specialty builders and a small number of production companies that don't have their frames made of "cheap Chinese steel." 

For the record, I put XT Hollowtech cranksets and bottom brackets on both the Trolls I built, but for a major tour I am planning in the summer of 2019 I will switch to a square taper bottom bracket and crankset.  I haven't yet decided whether it will be SKF, Phil Wood or White Industries.

 
(meaning you won't be told that square taper bottom brackets are no longer made or that they are, but just basic, inexpensive ones).  I built up Surly Trolls for my wife and me.

I'll admit I was surprised Sugino still makes square taper cranks.  I have not heard of Sugino since the mid 1980s.  Did not even know they still existed.  As for the ones Surly uses on its complete bikes.  They are some Chinese company I have never heard of.  Shimano abandoned square tapers on its upper models in the late 1990s or so.  They may still make square taper cranks for the cheapest bikes they equip.  But not on the upper levels.  I have several Dura Ace square taper cranks.  And Campagnolo square taper cranks.  All over 15 years old.  Not sure I would recommend someone build up a bike using parts 15 or more years old.  Just like I would not recommend someone build up a bike using 7 or 8 speed parts.  The biking world has moved on.

Not sure how square taper bottom brackets can use larger bearings than Shimano Hollowtech.  Square taper bottom brackets go inside the bottom bracket shell on the frame.  Its a tube about 1.375" diameter.  Hollowtech shells are about 1.875" diameter.  About half inch larger because the Hollowtech shells that hold the bottom bracket bearings are outside the frame's bottom bracket tube, which is about 1.375" diameter.  With the larger Hollowtech shell you end up with more and bigger bearings.  But anyway, bottom brackets are fairly durable and rarely give any problems.  The problem with square taper sealed bottom brackets is there are not many or any higher end cranks built for them anymore.  The Sugino mentioned above are probably nice.  I have good memories of Sugino from about 30 years ago.

Jan Heine, the link you provided, runs a magazine and a bicycle parts company.  A company that sells the square taper bottom brackets you are fond of.  He might have a vested interest.  Kind of like when a bike magazine recommends a bike and then you see advertisements in the magazine from that same bike brand.  Makes you wonder if the magazine selling advertisements to the bike company can be trusted to do an objective review of the bike.  They are paid by the bike company.

You say you are a Surly owner.  Do you know anything about Surly?  Surly is a brand name created by QBP.  QBP is the largest bike parts distributor in the US.  QBP is based in Minneapolis.  QBP supplies all the stuff to your local bike shop.  QBP saw an opportunity in the biking world.  People were fond of old biking parts for some reason.  Not sure why because old bike parts never worked as nicely as newer parts.  But QBP wanted to capitalize on this fondness people had for the old days.  So they created the Surly brand.  All Surly stuff is made in China.  QBP has many contacts in China because they import all the stuff they distribute from China.  QBP knows China very well.  QBP had Surly bike frames made in China from cheap Chinese steel.  China is a huge steel producer.  Hopefully QBP monitors closely the Chinese factories making the Surly frames.  QBP can sell its Surly frames pretty cheaply in the US because it makes them very cheaply in China and still make a good profit.  Good business plan.  QBP already distributes to every bike shop in the US so they have the distribution network already established.  Sell Surly frames and parts to the same shops they already serve.  QBP saw the niche for old style nostalgic bike parts and they filled it with the Surly brand creation.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 29, 2015, 08:29:28 pm
Thanks for all of the input guys.  I started with other sites and still frequent them and get some information from there but I really like it here.  I like the guys I'm talking to on this forum, the have been a big help.  So as long as everyone wants to share their thoughts and experiences I'm listening. 

I take the bike to the powder coat guy tomorrow, pretty excited to get it done.  I will post a picture when I get it back.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: Datsdad on November 30, 2015, 05:21:49 pm
I had the exact same dilemma when I purchased my LHT. I wanted the 700 tires but my normal fit is a 54CM bike. I was able to go to another town a couple of hours away which had Surly's in stock for a test ride. I had no problems fitting on the larger bike for the 700 tires. I've done about 3000 miles so far on my LTH. I'm 60+ in age, stand 5'9" and weight approx. 195. My pants have a 30" inseam.

Hope that helps...
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on November 30, 2015, 07:46:41 pm
I had the exact same dilemma when I purchased my LHT. I wanted the 700 tires but my normal fit is a 54CM bike. I was able to go to another town a couple of hours away which had Surly's in stock for a test ride. I had no problems fitting on the larger bike for the 700 tires. I've done about 3000 miles so far on my LTH. I'm 60+ in age, stand 5'9" and weight approx. 195. My pants have a 30" inseam.

Hope that helps...

Datsdad, yes that helps a bunch!  Thanks.  Im an inch taller, 20 lbs. heavier, and 15 years younger, so the bike should fit me well then.  I dropped it off at the powder coat company today and I should have it back in 2 weeks in International Orange.  Im getting the stem done as well and I should have my cane creek headset in a few days. I was pretty impressed by the powder coat guy, it is apparent that he has done bicycles many times before.  I feel a lot better now that I have spoke to him in person. 

Thanks again for the information, I was hoping that I hadn't put all this time and money into a bike that was a little to big for me. 
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on December 26, 2015, 10:14:47 pm
Got my bike back from the powder coat company and man this thing looks great.  I will try to post a picture real soon.  I got the headset as well, along with my spacers and my brass bell from Velo Orange.  Now I have Christmas and birthday money and I want to purchase the Chain set/BB.  SO many choices I just still am not sure where to start. 
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on December 27, 2015, 10:06:38 pm
Alright guys, I may have found my crankset.  I am looking at the Shimano Deore M590 9Speed Crankset, 26-36-48.  Can this be considered a touring crankset?  I like the reviews on it and the price is good.  My touring will be most of the time loaded down.  Not sure about the terrain as I have many places I want to go ride.  I look forward to hearing from you all.  Thanks.
Title: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RonK on December 28, 2015, 01:23:02 am
Yes - but since you have a choice, opt for the 44-32-22.

A 26t chainring is too big for hilly routes.


Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels (http://wheelswhisper.blogspot.com.au/)...
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: DaveB on December 28, 2015, 08:13:55 am
Yes - but since you have a choice, opt for the 44-32-22.

A 26t chainring is too big for hilly routes.
I agree the 22T chainring would be better but a 26T granny ring paired with a 32T or 34T rear cog does give a suitably low gear (22 gear-inches or 21.6 gear-inches)
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RonK on December 28, 2015, 04:27:54 pm

Yes - but since you have a choice, opt for the 44-32-22.

A 26t chainring is too big for hilly routes.
I agree the 22T chainring would be better but a 26T granny ring paired with a 32T or 34T rear cog does give a suitably low gear (22 gear-inches or 21.6 gear-inches)
Not low enough for me. I have 22x34 (17.5 gear inches) and still find myself walking at times.


Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels (http://wheelswhisper.blogspot.com.au/)...
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: Pat Lamb on December 28, 2015, 06:41:32 pm
I agree the 22T chainring would be better but a 26T granny ring paired with a 32T or 34T rear cog does give a suitably low gear (22 gear-inches or 21.6 gear-inches)
Not low enough for me. I have 22x34 (17.5 gear inches) and still find myself walking at times.

You can never be too thin, too rich, or have bikes geared too low.

(Unless maybe you get to a point you can't keep the bike upright while pedaling, but that's another topic.)
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RussSeaton on December 28, 2015, 07:42:56 pm
I am looking at the Shimano Deore M590 9Speed Crankset, 26-36-48.  Can this be considered a touring crankset?

This is a 9 speed crankset.  Around $62 from Merlin Cycles in 44-32-22 rings.  Why pick the odd 48-36-26 combination instead of the much better rings/crank I listed?  It costs $20-25 for a better 22 inner ring.  Yes it will work fine for touring.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on December 29, 2015, 06:48:33 pm
Not sure Russ, can't seem to find what you suggested.  I would like to stay with Shimano if I could.  I would like to stay around $200 if I could.  I would like the whole crank color to be black, or mostly black.  The color seems insignificant but I'm building it so why not build what I want.  If you get a chance please let fill me in on what you suggested Russ.  This whole crankset choice thing is a little tougher than I thought it would be.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on December 30, 2015, 07:09:27 am
Performance has the Shimano M442 Crankset 22-32-44 for $49.99.  Good reviews including a guy who put it on a Surly LHT and has nothing but good to say about it.  Save some money maybe...I don't know.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: RussSeaton on December 30, 2015, 01:20:16 pm
This is the crankset I found on Merlin Cycles.  Typed in "Shimano Deore M590 Crankset" to Google.
https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano-deore-m590-9-speed-chainset-44899.html?utm_campaign=googlebase-US&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shopping&utm_term=Chainsets&gclid=CPXe352XhMoCFQEIaQodNSYKoA

Friends and I have ordered from Merlin and lots of other British and European internet websites.  Never a problem.  Always much lower prices than US sellers.
Title: Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
Post by: fiveonomo on December 30, 2015, 03:20:27 pm
Thanks a lot Russ.  I think that is the route I am going, very nice price as well.  Thanks for the link, I've never ordered from overseas but I think I might give it a shot.  I don't know much about the Hollowtech BB that it comes with.  Will that BB fit my surly?  Any advice on the cassette?  I may order that as well.   9 speed 11-32?  9 speed 11-36?  I know I am asking a bunch of what may seem like silly questions to you but its just me, a park tools manual and youtube.  Im learning as I go.  This site has been very helpful as well with folks like yourself sharing their knowledge and experience.  Thanks a ton for taking the time to respond to my posts, I really appreciate it.