Adventure Cycling Association Forum

Bicycle Travel => General Discussion => Topic started by: Biketouringhobo on March 08, 2017, 04:33:51 pm

 
Title: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: Biketouringhobo on March 08, 2017, 04:33:51 pm
How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on your Bicycle Touring Trips??

I am having right shoulder pain and upper back pain Sleeping on a Thermarest Trail Pro Sleeping pad 72X20X2 and I am looking at Nemo Tensor insulated 20R Sleeping pad 72X20X3

Note: it is not my Bike fit and I have not been riding since 12-15-2016 in Southern California and my Shoulder pain is about 6 to 8 week killing me Sleeping on my right Shoulder
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: paddleboy17 on March 09, 2017, 12:17:31 pm
Sounds like you might want to try a camping hammock.
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: Biketouringhobo on March 09, 2017, 04:16:52 pm
Sounds like you might want to try a camping hammock.
I don't like hammock tents! and I live in Southern California and Stealth Bicycle Camping/Bicycle Touring in Southern California and very little trees to no trees
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: Manilishi on March 09, 2017, 05:28:47 pm
I went to the larger size sleeping pad for the extra width- on a 20" wide pad my elbows were not on the pad they were on the ground- as a result I was sleeping more on my side less comfortably- even my mummy bag is more comfortable when I'm sleeping on my back. I now sleep more comfortably on my new pad a neo air with the new speed valve  (purchased at an REI garage sale) 
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: walks.in2.trees on March 11, 2017, 09:06:57 pm
Sounds like you might want to try a camping hammock.
I don't like hammock tents! and I live in Southern California and Stealth Bicycle Camping/Bicycle Touring in Southern California and very little trees to no trees
Sounds like you might want to try NoGround Poles with a hammock!

Sent from my SM-T817V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: etsisk on March 13, 2017, 02:56:03 pm
Sounds like you might want to try a camping hammock.
I don't like hammock tents! and I live in Southern California and Stealth Bicycle Camping/Bicycle Touring in Southern California and very little trees to no trees
Horses for courses, I reckon. I have a terrible back and when I climb OUT of my hammock after a night's sleep, I feel better than I did when I climbed INTO the thing. That is most certainly not the case with a regular tent and sleeping pad set up.

That said, unless I'm on a trail where I know there will be trees, I take the half-dome 2+, because I know it will work. I have a cool hammock stand that breaks down to the size of a set of tent poles (for a large tent), but it requires a lot of stakes, and there are places out west where it's terribly difficult to pound in a stake, much less 18 of 'em...

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: ERS on March 21, 2017, 09:41:59 am
Have you considered an air mattress??? Just got one (Big Agnes, Air Core C, MUMMY) that although I haven't sleep a night on, feels good testing it out. Replacing an old ~3/4 inch thick 1984 Thermorest!
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: Biketouringhobo on March 21, 2017, 04:44:28 pm
Sounds like you might want to try a camping hammock.
I don't like hammock tents! and I live in Southern California and Stealth Bicycle Camping/Bicycle Touring in Southern California and very little trees to no trees
Sounds like you might want to try NoGround Poles with a hammock!

Sent from my SM-T817V using Tapatalk
Like I have said "I don't like hammock tents!"
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: Biketouringhobo on March 21, 2017, 04:51:43 pm
Have you considered an air mattress??? Just got one (Big Agnes, Air Core C, MUMMY) that although I haven't sleep a night on, feels good testing it out. Replacing an old ~3/4 inch thick 1984 Thermorest!
I am using a Thermarest Trail Pro Sleeping pad 2016 72x20x2 in Big Agnes Emcampment Sleeping bag and I am looking at Nemo Tensor insulated 20R Sleeping pad 72X20X3 and I don't think it is my Sleeping pad! and I sleeping on my right side and very little sleeping on my left side and I am full time sleeping in my Tent doing Stealth Bike Camping in Southern California and I am Homeless by Choice since 11-2008
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: joe_guilbeau on April 08, 2017, 07:09:54 pm
Sounds like you might want to get your shoulder checked. Make sure that it is not medically related.
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: mentalfuzz on April 09, 2017, 03:09:00 am
Two thoughts to consider:
1. Get a wider pad. My 20" wide Thermarest NeoAir leaves my arms "hanging" off the pad when I sleep on my back. I am considering a wider (25") air mattress/pad - maybe I won't sleep on my side so much if sleeping on my back is more comfortable.
2. Evaluate your pillow. I am a side sleeper most of the time. I haven't yet found the "right" camping pillow. Maybe when you sleep on your side, your neck is "tweaked" a little. Also, try pulling the down side shoulder forward a little bit so that you're more on the back side of the shoulder, as opposed to laying right on the shoulder (on the deltoid muscles).
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: walks.in2.trees on April 09, 2017, 02:37:53 pm
Sounds like you might want to try a camping hammock.
I don't like hammock tents! and I live in Southern California and Stealth Bicycle Camping/Bicycle Touring in Southern California and very little trees to no trees
Sounds like you might want to try NoGround Poles with a hammock!

Sent from my SM-T817V using Tapatalk
Like I have said "I don't like hammock tents!"
I wasnt trying to be a jerk... I know you said that, but the thing is, you may not like them now, but your pain may disappear if you get off the ground.

Using the No-Grounds poles, which are trecking poles that have extension pieces that allow them to support your weight in a hammock and string up a tarp, I can hammock-camp on sand (though it takes a lot of prep, and the correct stakes, for success) with no trees. Heavy compared to an Ultalight ground system (I think a 2 pole system weighs about 3lbs) , but if you're mainly staying in one spot for long periods of time and only change locations occasionally, the weight only comes into play occasionally, and not needing trees more than makes up for the weight and cost.

I won't lie, there's pain issues you can run into in a hammock, too, if it's not set up properly. When I first started hammocking I slept great, but as that first summer went on, I started noticing that I was getting a pain on one side of my back and neck. At first, I attributed it to my job, because I carry equipment all day that hangs from my belt on that same side. But then in the autumn I changed locations so I wouldn't be discovered by hunters during hunting season and the pain went away. Over time I noticed that it depended on how the hammock was hung wether I would start experiencing pain after a few weeks. If it's hung too tight you get shoulder squeeze; a little looser and you can sleep at an angle but if it's still too tight, it causes a shelf to form in the side fabric. I would use this as a pillow, and I think this was causing my pain over time; now I hang even looser, and I know by feel what is the optimum tightness of hang.

For you, it could be a similar thing: maybe you need a pillow, or maybe the pillow you have is too thick, or maybe it's the location you've chosen... Maybe there's a slight depression or crest in the ground that you can't see that is just enough that your pad can't compensate for it... Or as someone else pointed out, maybe it's an actual medical condition and nothing will fix it without surgery or therapy.

I guess it comes down to: do you want solve your problem or don't you?
If you come over to the hammock forums, you see all kinds of posts from people that just can't sleep on the ground anymore due to medical issues, and many even put up hammocks in their bedrooms and got rid of their frame beds all together because they're comfortable in a hammock but experience discomfort or even pain in a bed. It goes the other way too, some love to sleep in hammocks but can't anymore due to pain

I have been stealth-camping full-time, 4-season, in a hammock for three years now, and ¾ of the time, 3-season for two years prior to that. Granted, I'm also in Upstate NY where there's more trees, but that's what No-Ground Poles are good for. They break down into two trecking poles that I mount on my front racks, and a stuff-sack that doesn't need to be protected from rain, so it can be strapped on anywhere.

Sure, hammock vs ground there's a little more effort required to find a good location where your setup won't be noticed, and you won't be bothered, and where you can get in and out without someone taking notice and wanting to investigate. But all of that's already an issue if you're sleeping on the ground anyway. And you can still sleep on the ground with a hammock kit, use the same pad in the hammock, the only difference between the two systems is the hammock itself and the taller height of the final setup.

If I remember right, you said your in So. Cal., so a pad is all you need for under insulation, and you can use the same top insulation on the ground or in the hammock
If you DIY, Ripstop-by-the-roll now offers custom design printing... So you can literally take a photo from each approach to your camp and have it printed on a tarp... Best cammo ever if you're like me and staying in relatively the same location, but other people have come up with some interesting cammo designs for different environments too.

As to advantages of hammocks:

★ I'll sleep dry no matter what: I can sleep over an upland bog if I want... due to mosquitos that would be a last resort for me, but I could do it, I could sleep over standing water and still keep all of my gear dry. This is not to say that I haven't made setup mistakes I'm my early days and gotten wet, I did, but I won't ever be wet again.

★ I will never experience waking up to find that my air mattress has deflated in the night and there's a rock or root poking at me uncomfortably

★ a hammock is also a chair: I will always have a dry comfortable place to sit.

★ my hammock packs up to the size of a softball, my winter tarp the size of a small Nerf football, as do each of my 0° Down quilts. My Summer Series Down Quilt-set includes a top and bottom, together packs down to what just one of my winter quilts will.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170409/05aa5dd5c7987cccdf5e5ff20c628d5e.jpg)

In the end, it doesn't matter to me what you do, what you like, or don't like... You asked a question, and you got answers. What you do with them is up to you ;)

Sent from my SM-T817V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: Biketouringhobo on April 09, 2017, 02:52:20 pm
Sounds like you might want to try a camping hammock.
I don't like hammock tents! and I live in Southern California and Stealth Bicycle Camping/Bicycle Touring in Southern California and very little trees to no trees
Sounds like you might want to try NoGround Poles with a hammock!

Sent from my SM-T817V using Tapatalk
Like I have said "I don't like hammock tents!"
I wasnt trying to be a jerk... I know you said that, but the thing is, you may not like them now, but your pain may disappear if you get off the ground.

Using the No-Grounds poles, which are trecking poles that have extension pieces that allow them to support your weight in a hammock and string up a tarp, I can hammock-camp on sand (though it takes a lot of prep, and the correct stakes, for success) with no trees. Heavy compared to an Ultalight ground system (I think a 2 pole system weighs about 3lbs) , but if you're mainly staying in one spot for long periods of time and only change locations occasionally, the weight only comes into play occasionally, and not needing trees more than makes up for the weight and cost.

I won't lie, there's pain issues you can run into in a hammock, too, if it's not set up properly. When I first started hammocking I slept great, but as that first summer went on, I started noticing that I was getting a pain on one side of my back and neck. At first, I attributed it to my job, because I carry equipment all day that hangs from my belt on that same side. But then in the autumn I changed locations so I wouldn't be discovered by hunters during hunting season and the pain went away. Over time I noticed that it depended on how the hammock was hung wether I would start experiencing pain after a few weeks. If it's hung too tight you get shoulder squeeze; a little looser and you can sleep at an angle but if it's still too tight, it causes a shelf to form in the side fabric. I would use this as a pillow, and I think this was causing my pain over time; now I hang even looser, and I know by feel what is the optimum tightness of hang.

For you, it could be a similar thing: maybe you need a pillow, or maybe the pillow you have is too thick, or maybe it's the location you've chosen... Maybe there's a slight depression or crest in the ground that you can't see that is just enough that your pad can't compensate for it... Or as someone else pointed out, maybe it's an actual medical condition and nothing will fix it without surgery or therapy.

I guess it comes down to: do you want solve your problem or don't you?
If you come over to the hammock forums, you see all kinds of posts from people that just can't sleep on the ground anymore due to medical issues, and many even put up hammocks in their bedrooms and got rid of their frame beds all together because they're comfortable in a hammock but experience discomfort or even pain in a bed. It goes the other way too, some love to sleep in hammocks but can't anymore due to pain

I have been stealth-camping full-time, 4-season, in a hammock for three years now, and ¾ of the time, 3-season for two years prior to that. Granted, I'm also in Upstate NY where there's more trees, but that's what No-Ground Poles are good for. They break down into two trecking poles that I mount on my front racks, and a stuff-sack that doesn't need to be protected from rain, so it can be strapped on anywhere.

Sure, hammock vs ground there's a little more effort required to find a good location where your setup won't be noticed, and you won't be bothered, and where you can get in and out without someone taking notice and wanting to investigate. But all of that's already an issue if you're sleeping on the ground anyway. And you can still sleep on the ground with a hammock kit, use the same pad in the hammock, the only difference between the two systems is the hammock itself and the taller height of the final setup.

If I remember right, you said your in So. Cal., so a pad is all you need for under insulation, and you can use the same top insulation on the ground or in the hammock
If you DIY, Ripstop-by-the-roll now offers custom design printing... So you can literally take a photo from each approach to your camp and have it printed on a tarp... Best cammo ever if you're like me and staying in relatively the same location, but other people have come up with some interesting cammo designs for different environments too.

As to advantages of hammocks:

★ I'll sleep dry no matter what: I can sleep over an upland bog if I want... due to mosquitos that would be a last resort for me, but I could do it, I could sleep over standing water and still keep all of my gear dry. This is not to say that I haven't made setup mistakes I'm my early days and gotten wet, I did, but I won't ever be wet again.

★ I will never experience waking up to find that my air mattress has deflated in the night and there's a rock or root poking at me uncomfortably

★ a hammock is also a chair: I will always have a dry comfortable place to sit.

★ my hammock packs up to the size of a softball, my winter tarp the size of a small Nerf football, as do each of my 0° Down quilts. My Summer Series Down Quilt-set includes a top and bottom, together packs down to what just one of my winter quilts will.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170409/05aa5dd5c7987cccdf5e5ff20c628d5e.jpg)

In the end, it doesn't matter to me what you do, what you like, or don't like... You asked a question, and you got answers. What you do with them is up to you ;)

Sent from my SM-T817V using Tapatalk
My answer is that I am a side Sleeper and I am using Thermarest Trail Pro Sleeping  pad 72X20X2 in Big Agnes Encampment 15deg Sleeping bag abd I sleep on my right side and BOTH SHOULDERS are in pain! and I see my Doctor on 4-17-17
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: etsisk on April 09, 2017, 02:54:34 pm
Walks.in2.trees, what hammock/tarp/bug screen setup do you use? My Hennessy Hammock is a fair bit bigger than that...

I have a system similar to that which you describe for treeless hanging, but a lot of stakes are required. Out west that could be a tough thing to use, given how hard the ground can be.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: walks.in2.trees on April 09, 2017, 04:43:44 pm
Walks.in2.trees, what hammock/tarp/bug screen setup do you use? My Hennessy Hammock is a fair bit bigger than that...

I have a system similar to that which you describe for treeless hanging, but a lot of stakes are required. Out west that could be a tough thing to use, given how hard the ground can be.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
There's ways... The person who makes them lives out west, and that's why she made them, wanting to hammock in treeless places, she has video where she had to get creative about placement, wedging one or two in boulders, etc

I presently use an ENO Double-Nest with a DIY bottomhentry bug-net (AKA "Fronkey Net") with Wilderness Logics OldManWinter tarp, WildernessLogics Summer Series DownQuilt-set, and Underground Quilts 0° +5oz Zepplin & Renegade for winter.

This year though, I'm planning to get a wide Chameleon from Dutchware Gear once it goes live on his site.

Sent from my SM-T817V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: jittery on March 03, 2021, 01:59:40 pm
I often have back pain, just like you, which makes it difficult for me to fall asleep. The doctors advised me to do more sports, preferably more stretching. The doctor also prescribed me pills. With the help by pill identifier, I read the full description of  pills and learned that these pills have side effects. The most terrible side effect is that the liver function deteriorates. I decided to stop taking the pills and began to stretch every day. Stretching and swimming help me get rid of the pain.
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: ray b on March 03, 2021, 03:49:59 pm
How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on your Bicycle Touring Trips??

I am having right shoulder pain and upper back pain Sleeping on a Thermarest Trail Pro Sleeping pad 72X20X2 and I am looking at Nemo Tensor insulated 20R Sleeping pad 72X20X3

Note: it is not my Bike fit and I have not been riding since 12-15-2016 in Southern California and my Shoulder pain is about 6 to 8 week killing me Sleeping on my right Shoulder

Will throw in my 2 cents as an old sports medicine and sleep medicine physician.

Premises:
Mechanical problems often have mechanical solutions.
The body can generally heal if we avoid further injury and stay away from anti-inflammatories including ibuprofen and corticosteroid injections.

If you haven't done so, a physical therapist can check your sleeping position. (This is considered routine for back and shoulder issues.)
Just as we spend a lot of time on bike fit and form to avoid injuries from riding (how did you injure your back and shoulder?), we can also get professional advice on how to get through the day and night with sufficient joint and back stability to avoid further injury.
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: HikeBikeCook on March 03, 2021, 05:35:42 pm
Crunches will strengthen your core and may help with your back issues. I have damaged discs from a motorcycle accident and they help me. I am NOT a Doctor so suggest you get checked out by a professional. I also suffer from osteoarthritis in by shoulders and went to touring handlebars with an adjustable stem angle to take some of the weight off my shoulders. I can drop the angle to be more aerodynamic on this days with persistent headwinds.
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: Westinghouse on March 05, 2021, 05:19:50 pm
Certain kinds of sports stretches should solve that problem. There are books in the library, and articles online.
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: Rixtoy on March 28, 2021, 10:56:45 pm
This is the answer a member of this forum turned me onto and I love it.
- Best 2 1/2 pounds I carry
- Gets me 6" off the ground and I side sleep comfortably (with a torn rotator cuff)
- Pricey , but worth every dollar

Helinox lite camping cot:
- breaks down into a stuff sack which is very packable . . .
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: Smudgy on April 01, 2021, 12:19:51 am
I have shoulder, neck and upper back pain sometimes. My situation is probably totally different from yours, but here goes. I have a disc issue in my lower neck, an old sports injury. It puts pressure on a nerve that effects my left arm and shoulder. It became so painful, I almost had to stop riding. I went to a chiropractor and he said I needed to change my riding position. When the head is out in front of the shoulders it puts stress on the neck. A normal healthy neck, no problem, but my neck is a problem. I adopted a more upright riding position. I ride with my head over my shoulders. This puts less strain on the neck muscles. Therefore less pain in my arm and shoulder. In addition, I was riding with very bad position. I'm not a trained cyclist. I had my hands wide apart, arms straight with shoulders shrugged. I found out this causes my arms, shoulders and neck to act as a shock absorber, transferring every bump directly to my spine. I now ride with narrow hands, arms bent and low shoulders. This puts almost no weight on my hands and I'm not a human shock absorber any more. I also have no more hand pain or numbness. BTW, numbness in the hands can sometimes be from a problem in the neck, not the hands. Of course the upright riding position is less efficient and I probably ride slower, but I'm old and I was never built for speed anyway. The added benefit of a more upright position is that I can see my surroundings better. For years I rode all hunched over and mostly saw the road 3 feet in front of my wheel.
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: staehpj1 on April 01, 2021, 07:48:23 am
You need to exercise more often. Daily workouts will help you get rid of back pain
Seriously?  The guy asked a sleeping pad/shoulder pain question 4 years ago.  He was set to see a doctor 4-17-17.  I doubt he is anxiously awaiting suggestions.
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: Westinghouse on June 13, 2021, 11:38:07 pm
If all else fails, try a couple of cold 16 ounce beers.
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: staehpj1 on June 14, 2021, 08:36:09 am
This is a four year old thread reopened by troll with a link to dubious link to Pill web site.  It was nudged again by another troll with only two posts (the other included a link to a spammy supplement site).

I don't get why resurrecting's these old threads is allowed or why these accounts aren't disabled after they pop up posting spam to newly reopened old threads in their first or second post.  To be fair I guess some of the other troll accounts were disabled.
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: KathyE on June 16, 2021, 12:25:03 am
I see your point staehpj1, it is an old thread. But some useful information still came out of it. The OP doesn't care and will ever see it but newer folks like me will. And that cot idea looks mighty tempting. :)
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: staehpj1 on November 17, 2021, 08:03:54 am
Mods, can't you please look into locking of old threads.  Barring that or possibly at least flagging them in some fashion.  The bots and trolls seem to love ressurecting old threads for some reason.  If someone has a legitimate reason to refer to one they could link to it then at least it would be obvious that they were linking to another thread and it would be more obvious that it wasn't a current topic.

Also given the influx of bots and trolls, possibly not allowing these new users to post links until they have show that they are interested members of the touring community.
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: BikeliciousBabe on November 17, 2021, 01:38:22 pm
Best way to get mods' attention is to use the report function.
Title: Re: How do you deal with back pain and shoulders pain Sleeping on a Sleeping pad on
Post by: staehpj1 on November 17, 2021, 05:40:58 pm
Yep, I do that all the time and they do usually remove the links from the bot posts of sometimes the whole post.