Adventure Cycling Association Forum

Bicycle Travel => General Discussion => Topic started by: hikerjer on August 23, 2018, 01:19:34 pm

 
Title: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: hikerjer on August 23, 2018, 01:19:34 pm
Has anyone come across a source that can reliably cite the number of folks who do a cross country bicycle tour in a year?  This question came up in a discussion at a LBS the other day. No one seems to know. Just curious.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: John Nettles on August 23, 2018, 02:04:59 pm
I too have wondered this for decades.  However, I think it would be pretty hard to get a firm number as the number is relatively small compared to the population. If 25,000 individual people bicycle tour (any length of tour) in the USA in a given year, that would be only 0.00083% of the USA population, way to small for an accurate measurement I would guess.

Also, some questions pop to mind in trying to do the study.  Do you include only citizens of that country (easier to survey but then not realistic), how would you define "cross country", i.e. east to west coast is pretty easy but what about NYC to Brownsville, TX?  Then there is the proverbial what is a "tourer" (I DO NOT want to start a flamefest) question, i.e. ranges from must be totally self-contained and sleep out all the way to a fully supported credit card tour?  Must it be totally self-propelled or can they take a bus/train/plane for a section of it (how big of a section)?  Do they have to complete it or only INTEND to complete it but never did (got sick, in an accident, etc.)?  How do contact them as some might miss the survey since they are out touring when the survey arrives? 

I would think though that ACA would have a somewhat good base number based on map/app sells.  Then the only issue is trying to determine how many tour and do not use ACA maps and/or use a used ACA map (already counted) and/or share a map with someone (not counted).  Then you just have to determine how many tour in other commercial cross-country groups.

I actually think it would be a very cool idea if groups like ACA, WarmShowers, and the Bicycle Tour Network would send a JOINT survey out to their members (and their customers if a commercial entity) to study this (let some college student do the study).  While not a totally accurate number, it would probably cover 75+% of "cyclotourists".

My guess is 1,298,074 people do some form of bicycle touring for at least one night at some point during 2018 in the USA.  They are just hard to find!   ;D

Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: Pat Lamb on August 23, 2018, 04:11:44 pm
My guess is 1,298,074 people do some form of bicycle touring for at least one night at some point during 2018 in the USA.  They are just hard to find!

I think you're off by 329.  Maybe a little more.  ;)

I vaguely remember reading an article 15-20 years ago comparing the Appalachian Trail to the Adventure Cycling Trans-Am route.  The author of that article stated that about 10,000 hikers started the AT every year, and about a quarter of them finished it.  At that time they estimated "most" of the 2-3,000 or so cycle tourists that started the Trans-Am every year finished that route.

Obviously, that neglects those who take the Northern Tier, Southern Tier, ride with a commercial operator, or just pick their own route.  AC could (if they were willing) provide numbers for how many sets of TA, NT, and ST maps (and perhaps L&C or WE) they sell in a year -- possibly throwing in numbers north-south routes for good measure.  That's probably the best proxy for number of riders: you'll have small groups (a family, for instance) riding off one set of maps, and other people buy the map set and don't complete a route or never get started.

I suspect the commercial operators add up to no more than a few dozen riders each year.  There's perhaps a half dozen operators who advertise a cross-country route, and their numbers are typically a dozen or three riders who go all the way.  My gut feeling is that there are not many more who develop their own routes for a cross-country ride; most of the posters here who ride on their own have started doing one of the developed routes, and only a very small fraction of the people who've done a long ride will turn around and do another coast-to-coast route on their own.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: John Nettles on August 23, 2018, 05:48:21 pm
I suspect the commercial operators add up to no more than a few dozen riders each year.  There's perhaps a half dozen operators who advertise a cross-country route, and their numbers are typically a dozen or three riders who go all the way.
I would guess 500+ people cross using commerical and/or non-profit groups cross (E-W & N-S) each year.  One group, can't remember name but they are a college age non-profit that sends kids out rehabing houses along the way, in 3-5 groups of maybe 12-20 each.  There is at least 50 right there.

The hikers have it easy as they can't wander as easily  :D .  They just have to sit by the trail and count.  We cyclists are a like an unleased dog who wanders everywhere.
 
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: DaveB on August 23, 2018, 06:45:00 pm
I expect the only reasonably reliable statistics on bike tourist numbers would come from the commercial and non-profit tour operators.  They certainly know how many customers they have in any given year.  For independent tourists, all we can do is guess.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: John Nelson on August 23, 2018, 10:12:26 pm
When I was in Missoula years ago, I asked Greg Siple. He said they didn't know. All they know is the number of maps they sell. But since some do it without maps, some use one set of maps for a group, some borrow maps from somebody else, some buy the maps and never go, some start and never finish, etc., the number of maps sold can't really be extrapolated to number of people.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: hikerjer on August 24, 2018, 11:53:09 pm
"We cyclists are a like an unleased dog who wanders everywhere. ;D  More like herding cats, I'd say.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: Westinghouse on September 16, 2018, 01:53:40 am
How about defining cross country. From FL to CA is definitely cross country. The Transam route is  cross country. NY to Brownsville is too, but what about Jacksonville, FL to Brownsville? I did that once. If that is, what about FL to Brownsville to  El Paso, TX?

In 1987 I did 2600 miles of the northern tier as mapped by ACA. I met maybe 25 cyclicts, 10 or 15 of which were in a Bikecentennial group. On the ST, on ACA and mostly off, I have crossed 5 times and saw very few cyclists on tour. On one crossing or maybe three I saw  no touring cyclists at all, and that was winter.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: Westinghouse on September 16, 2018, 02:02:51 am
I too have wondered this for decades.  However, I think it would be pretty hard to get a firm number as the number is relatively small compared to the population. If 25,000 individual people bicycle tour (any length of tour) in the USA in a given year, that would be only 0.00083% of the USA population, way to small for an accurate measurement I would guess.

Also, some questions pop to mind in trying to do the study.  Do you include only citizens of that country (easier to survey but then not realistic), how would you define "cross country", i.e. east to west coast is pretty easy but what about NYC to Brownsville, TX?  Then there is the proverbial what is a "tourer" (I DO NOT want to start a flamefest) question, i.e. ranges from must be totally self-contained and sleep out all the way to a fully supported credit card tour?  Must it be totally self-propelled or can they take a bus/train/plane for a section of it (how big of a section)?  Do they have to complete it or only INTEND to complete it but never did (got sick, in an accident, etc.)?  How do contact them as some might miss the survey since they are out touring when the survey arrives? 

I would think though that ACA would have a somewhat good base number based on map/app sells.  Then the only issue is trying to determine how many tour and do not use ACA maps and/or use a used ACA map (already counted) and/or share a map with someone (not counted).  Then you just have to determine how many tour in other commercial cross-country groups.

I actually think it would be a very cool idea if groups like ACA, WarmShowers, and the Bicycle Tour Network would send a JOINT survey out to their members (and their customers if a commercial entity) to study this (let some college student do the study).  While not a totally accurate number, it would probably cover 75+% of "cyclotourists".

My guess is 1,298,074 people do some form of bicycle touring for at least one night at some point during 2018 in the USA.  They are just hard to find!   ;D

Intending to do a transcontinental bike tour, but not completing  should not count because anyone can say they intended to. That is unless they went a very long way and had to quit, say From Saint Augustine to eastern CA and had to quit the tour. But Saint Augustine to Louisiana might not count. It is not easy to fairly define cross country. I think NY to Brownsville would qualify. Cross country seems to say across the country, not the state or three states or five.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: canalligators on September 16, 2018, 11:08:27 pm
I think that the number of people who “cross the country” isn’t a terribly useful metric.  It can’t really be used in comparison to anything else, such as tourism spending, highway usage, or infrastructure spending.  Total tourist-miles per year would probably be more useful.  And a harder value to determine!
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: Westinghouse on September 17, 2018, 07:39:10 pm
I think that the number of people who “cross the country” isn’t a terribly useful metric.  It can’t really be used in comparison to anything else, such as tourism spending, highway usage, or infrastructure spending.  Total tourist-miles per year would probably be more useful.  And a harder value to determine!


It is a simple question of how many people cross the US by bicycle each year. I am not sure how those other matters are relevant to it. I did not see anyone arguing that it was a terribly useful metric for anything. Just how many. Regardless of any "metric" it may or may not be, it is probably impossible to determine with a high degree of accuracy. I mean, who is out there counting?
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: BikePacker on September 18, 2018, 08:30:56 am
 
It is a simple question of how many people cross the US by bicycle each year.
[/quote]
A really, really worthy question Westinghouse & Hikerjer.
I have long wondered, as well as, long decided
that if ACA can't conservatively accurately estimate this figure then,
probably (? :-), no one can?
I'd love to see it estimated in some of these subsets:
1.  Atlantic - Pacific (either direction).
2.  Canada - Gulf or Mexico (either direction).
3.  End to end in one trip, aka non-stop.
4.  End to end via more than one trip (i.e., not non-stop).
5.  Has to be by year completed, or else the calculation could never arrive at your above 'each year.'
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: lvmelini@comcast.net on September 18, 2018, 09:32:01 am
My wife Julie and I thru-hiked the Appalachian trail (AT) in 2016. We were 2 of approximately 900+ hikers that thru-hiked the trail that year,(a 20-25% completion rate of those that start). The number reported on this forum I believe is way off the mark. The Appalachian Trail Conservancy (ATC) uses a volunteer registration and reporting method to obtain statistics; 1. the number that have hiked the trail even over several years 2. the number of thru-hikers having hiked the trail within one year of starting which is approximately the number of "2000-milers". The ATC currently states in the FAQ'S that 15,000 people have ever hiked the AT in their estimate. The numbers are further broken down by age, sex etc. For example, I hiked the trail at age 65 knowing that 3% of the thru-hikers are over 60. Given that the AT is part of the National Park system, I do not know if the statistics help with funding. In 2018 Julie and I biked the entire TransAmerica (TA) bike route. In Virginia it is requested on the TA maps to sign a register in Virginia that would help gather numbers to help with funding in that state. A voluntary reporting system would be interesting for the Adventure Cycling Association to initiate.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: John Nettles on September 18, 2018, 11:05:48 am
The number reported on this forum I believe is way off the mark.
Are you talking about the AT or bicycling?  If bicycling, what number do you believe is way off other than my joking of 1,298,074?  Again, what is your number based on, i.e. JUST the TransAm, ALL cross-country routes (border to border), or ?
If AT, I have no knowledge of that other than to say that I think AT hikers are tougher than TA bikers.  I would not like to go days without a shower. :)
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: lvmelini@comcast.net on September 18, 2018, 11:38:24 am
Are you talking about the AT or bicycling?  If bicycling, what number do you believe is way off other than my joking of 1,298,074?  Again, what is your number based on, i.e. JUST the TransAm, ALL cross-country routes (border to border), or ?
If AT, I have no knowledge of that other than to say that I think AT hikers are tougher than TA bikers.  I would not like to go days without a shower. :)


I was referring to the statistics presented in reply #2 regarding the Appalachian Trail.  With regards to the TransAmerica or all cross-country routes, the Adventure Cycling Association could set up some guidelines. For example, on the TransAmerica bike route maps there is a statement that one can "report your ride completion if you rode 90% of the TransAmerica bike route". Or perhaps a "cross-country" ride would be counted if one rode "x" amount of miles across the country, with "x" being and arbitrary number such as 3600 or perhaps 4000.

The several days on the AT without a shower was not to our liking either. And another yes that the AT was more difficult than the TA but that may be in part due to the time difference- 176 days for the AT; 71 days for the TA.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: John Nettles on September 18, 2018, 11:48:58 am
I think the idea of an online "tour register" is a great idea.  Plus ACA could get some cheap, easy PR.
Various categories/routes could be done.  A permanent list could be established so 25 years from now, people would be still be able to look it up.  It could even try to contain enough data for other purposes/surveys, i.e. % of camping/hotel, what states did you ride in (doesn't even have to be across), links to journals, number of days it took, rest/riding days, favorite spot/attraction/place/cafe, etc.

Are you listening ACA?
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: lvmelini@comcast.net on September 18, 2018, 12:48:28 pm
John: one more statistic and opinion.  There are 11 National scenic hiking trails. These are "protected" trails and I believe receive some funding from the Government as a result of the National Trails System Act of 1968. The Appalachian Trail is one such trail. Wouldn't it be nice if the TransAmerica trail, the oldest Adventure Cycling bike route, could be designated as a "national scenic trail" under the Act of 1968. Statistics and number of users would need to be obtained.

Lou
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: Westinghouse on September 18, 2018, 07:34:09 pm
I think the idea of an online "tour register" is a great idea.  Plus ACA could get some cheap, easy PR.
Various categories/routes could be done.  A permanent list could be established so 25 years from now, people would be still be able to look it up.  It could even try to contain enough data for other purposes/surveys, i.e. % of camping/hotel, what states did you ride in (doesn't even have to be across), links to journals, number of days it took, rest/riding days, favorite spot/attraction/place/cafe, etc.

Are you listening ACA?

Any method of counting would be limited to the point that an accurate estimate would be impossible. It interests me anyway. I mean, I think that I have done these coast to coast and S to N cross country tours for years. I wonder what proportion of the overall population actually do this. Surely it is a very small fractional minority. An online register would get some numbers. The problem  is many would not register or would not know about registering. And how do we know what they register is true? I have crossed by bicycle many times. Most often I saw nobody at all obviously engaged in a long distance tour.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: John Nettles on September 18, 2018, 07:42:18 pm
I totally agree the number would not be accurate but it would still be neat.  Also, assuming most AT hikers know about the AT register, the biking register MAY get more accurate as time goes on and it gets more known.  I would guess relatively few AT hikers do not complete the register if they have invested 6 months of time hiking it.  Perhaps the same thing would happen with cross-country cycling.
Anyway, I still think a register would be neat regardless of the the completeness/ thoroughness of the register and/or the number or percentage using it.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: Westinghouse on September 18, 2018, 08:02:16 pm
I totally agree the number would not be accurate but it would still be neat.  Also, assuming most AT hikers know about the AT register, the biking register MAY get more accurate as time goes on and it gets more known.  I would guess relatively few AT hikers do not complete the register if they have invested 6 months of time hiking it.  Perhaps the same thing would happen with cross-country cycling.
Anyway, I still think a register would be neat regardless of the the completeness/ thoroughness of the register and/or the number or percentage using it.

It would be something better than nothing.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: BikePacker on September 19, 2018, 05:45:41 pm
What makes it nice for the AT hiking and related registration of 'end to end
(i.e., full length e-v-e-n-t-u-a-l-l-y  :) accomplished in multiple sections)' or
'thru-hiking' is that it is one route.
With bicycling coast to/fro coast or north to/fro south it is, of course, the innumerable routes possible.
Simply an observation (of maybe the obvious :- ).
Where I suppose I am going with this is that it seems to me that Adventure Cycling would be the completely most common sense promoter, collector & manager of "statistics on cross country tourers." 
IF ACA, John, IS listening maybe they could give it to an intern or find someone who could legitimately make it some part of graduate study of some type.
Such stats would then be, of course, beneficial IF ACA wished to pursue obtaining Ivmelins's suggested Federal National Trails Systems Act designations for any of the ACA routes.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: DaveB on September 19, 2018, 06:17:02 pm
I totally agree the number would not be accurate but it would still be neat.  Also, assuming most AT hikers know about the AT register, the biking register MAY get more accurate as time goes on and it gets more known.  I would guess relatively few AT hikers do not complete the register if they have invested 6 months of time hiking it.  Perhaps the same thing would happen with cross-country cycling.
Anyway, I still think a register would be neat regardless of the the completeness/ thoroughness of the register and/or the number or percentage using it.

It would be something better than nothing.
Not if it's misleading.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: lvmelini@comcast.net on September 19, 2018, 09:09:01 pm
At this time no one can say if 200 people ride coast to coast or 2000. Maybe the number is 3000. Currently one can register their ride on the the ACA website, but I don't know what the ACA does with that data. As I envision it, and I could be completely wrong, but a simple email to the members asking "Did you ride coast to coast in the past 5 years"; If so "what year". Did you ride the Northern or Southern Tier, The TransAmerica route, or another route that took you from one ocean to another". From that, a ballpark number of cross country riders could be obtained, not perfect but at least a figure to work with.  From that group further data could be collected such as age, gender, direction of travel or whatever one wants to ask such as "did you intend on riding cross country but were unable to complete the ride". The largest hurdle would be getting people to respond. A small response rate would be disappointing, and probably misleading. With regards to the Appalachian Trail, people seemed excited to register their thru-hike, there was a level of excitement, therefore the AT numbers are fairly credible. One receives a "2000-miler" certificate from the Appalachian trail Conservancy for registering your hike plus a couple of small patches that could be sewn to your backpack.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: BikePacker on September 20, 2018, 09:40:07 am
One receives a "2000-miler" certificate from the Appalachian trail Conservancy for registering your hike
Sort of similarly, The Blueridge Parkway Foundation provides their "End to Ender" certification for registering a trekker's completion of said 469 mile ridge ride,
albeit, the accomplishment can be by bike, car, foot, whatever, and it can be performed in multiple sections over time.
Here is the link for anyone who might wish to learn more specifically on how The Blueridge Parkway Foundation manages/promotes this / fyi:
https://www.brpfoundation.org/content/join-our-end-ender-club
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: jsieber on September 20, 2018, 01:28:26 pm
Interesting discussion! We do have a few items on the website that can help people get an idea of how many people are riding cross country. As mentioned earlier in the thread, we have the Ride Registry that allows people to register their tour. Not all of these are cross country rides, but many are. You can also look at statistics across all of the rides or by a specific route.

https://www.adventurecycling.org/resources/ride-registry/

We also keep a running count of how many cyclists visit our offices each year while on tour. Not all of these riders are going cross country but again, many are.

https://www.adventurecycling.org/about-us/visit-missoula/#vistingcyclists

We also have the photos of the visiting cyclists that list the trip they are taking.

https://www.adventurecycling.org/resources/visiting-cyclists/

As there are many routes to cross the country it does become more difficult to track the total number. I think this is something we plan to discuss internally.

Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: hikerjer on September 20, 2018, 10:15:26 pm
"I think AT hikers are tougher than TA bikers."  - I wouldn't argue that for a second - lack of showers, far fewer food options, and it takes a lot longer to complete
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: hikerjer on September 20, 2018, 11:16:56 pm
"I think that the number of people who “cross the country” isn’t a terribly useful metric.  It can’t really be used in comparison to anything else, such as tourism spending, highway usage, or infrastructure spending.  Total tourist-miles per year would probably be more useful.  And a harder value to determine!" ---

Jeeze?  ??? All it was was a simple question which I was merely curious about.  Let's not over think this.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: netdomon1 on September 27, 2018, 07:05:25 am
wowww
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: Nyimbo on September 27, 2018, 03:39:08 pm
jsieber: I did a cross country over the last two summers but I didn't realize there was a ride-registry on the site.  So yeah, if I'm a frequent forum and site visitor and didn't know, it makes me think it would be a little bit hard to get registry word out to all the travelers.
Regarding registering at the Missoula offices, when I was crossing w-e I hit the intersection at Lolo at about 4:30pm on a Friday and since the map set said the offices were closed on weekends I decided to turn right. I decided to skip the overnight stop at Missoula since I didn't want to wait until Monday morning for the visit to the ACA offices. 
(by the way - not complaining, I'm glad you all take weekends off) But I am mentioning you might be missing a large percent, maybe 10-20% in your reporting numbers just because of the weekend thing?
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: jsieber on September 28, 2018, 12:31:04 pm
Regarding registering at the Missoula offices, when I was crossing w-e I hit the intersection at Lolo at about 4:30pm on a Friday and since the map set said the offices were closed on weekends I decided to turn right. I decided to skip the overnight stop at Missoula since I didn't want to wait until Monday morning for the visit to the ACA offices. 
(by the way - not complaining, I'm glad you all take weekends off) But I am mentioning you might be missing a large percent, maybe 10-20% in your reporting numbers just because of the weekend thing?

We do have Saturday morning office hours during the summer months specifically for traveling cyclists that are coming through on tour. We keep the summer hours updated on the website here: https://www.adventurecycling.org/about-us/visit-missoula/
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: netdomon1 on October 07, 2018, 07:19:19 am
nice thank  ;D
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: Westinghouse on October 07, 2018, 10:19:09 am

It is a simple question of how many people cross the US by bicycle each year.
A really, really worthy question Westinghouse & Hikerjer.
I have long wondered, as well as, long decided
that if ACA can't conservatively accurately estimate this figure then,
probably (? :-), no one can?
I'd love to see it estimated in some of these subsets:
1.  Atlantic - Pacific (either direction).
2.  Canada - Gulf or Mexico (either direction).
3.  End to end in one trip, aka non-stop.
4.  End to end via more than one trip (i.e., not non-stop).
5.  Has to be by year completed, or else the calculation could never arrive at your above 'each year.'
[/quote]

Perhaps the best that can be achieved are accurate numbers from bicycle touring organizations. They know how many start and how many finish. There would still be those who do it and take no interest in registering it. But the question remains. How many? I did the PCBR Ana Cortes to San Diego. I saw maybe 20 others obviously loaded for long distance touring. From talking to others, I was the only one going the distance. Of course, there might have been others taking the day off or in coffee shops of buying food when I went by. I did the Atlantic coast 4 times. I did not see anybody else at all loaded and touring. I have done random tours such as just taking off with no destination and just looking around. I saw nobody else obviously loaded and touring. In the UK bicycles were everywhere and many were used for touring. The tourist I spoke to were mostly on weekend jaunts and that sort of thing. I am of the opinion at this time that the authentic transcontinental bicycle tourist is a rare and not easily quantifiable subject.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: John Nettles on October 07, 2018, 07:51:22 pm
Westinghouse,

Your observations are interesting about the lack of meeting other bike riders.  I and 3 others) just rode a short section of BR66 from Amarillo to Tulsa.  Not including the supported westbound ACA?? group (maybe 12-15 riders), we passed 11 fully loaded cyclotourists going westbound (really wrong direction due to wind!) in this short stretch over 8 days.  These were ones we actually saw but were told of 2 other westbounders.  All but 2 were international (non-North America).  From my experience hosting primarily cyclists on BR66 (I live in Tulsa), I would say that only 50%, if that, of the riders use ACA maps.  We were also told that 2 others were a day ahead of us but our paths never crossed (we are somewhat slow).

My point is there were at least 19 loaded cyclotourists in a 375 mile stretch of BR66 NOT including ACA (they rode by in small groups and didn't stop to talk :-(  ).  Granted, this is end of prime season for BR66 so the numbers may be high but I can easily believe 200 people ride all or a major part (otherwise why be fully loaded out in the middle of the Texas panhandle) of BR66 a year.  And BR66 is not one of ACA's "Top Routes" by map sales I would guess.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: Westinghouse on October 08, 2018, 11:09:39 am
Westinghouse,

Your observations are interesting about the lack of meeting other bike riders.  I and 3 others) just rode a short section of BR66 from Amarillo to Tulsa.  Not including the supported westbound ACA?? group (maybe 12-15 riders), we passed 11 fully loaded cyclotourists going westbound (really wrong direction due to wind!) in this short stretch over 8 days.  These were ones we actually saw but were told of 2 other westbounders.  All but 2 were international (non-North America).  From my experience hosting primarily cyclists on BR66 (I live in Tulsa), I would say that only 50%, if that, of the riders use ACA maps.  We were also told that 2 others were a day ahead of us but our paths never crossed (we are somewhat slow).

My point is there were at least 19 loaded cyclotourists in a 375 mile stretch of BR66 NOT including ACA (they rode by in small groups and didn't stop to talk :-(  ).  Granted, this is end of prime season for BR66 so the numbers may be high but I can easily believe 200 people ride all or a major part (otherwise why be fully loaded out in the middle of the Texas panhandle) of BR66 a year.  And BR66 is not one of ACA's "Top Routes" by map sales I would guess.

Of course, on a specific bike route like 66 at high season or shoulder season, you will see others. I do not follow all of ACA's route. The 2 I did see on my last E to W on the ST were on the ACA route east of Pensacola and Fort Morgan that goes to Dauphin Island.  After Dauphin  Island I go to 90 while ACA goes father north into Louisiana. From El Paso north to Las Cruces on the ACA route I never saw anybody on three crossings. From Las Cruces west I take I-10 while ACA goes up to Silver City. I get I-10 at San Antonio and stay on interstates except where I have to get off temporarily. On 5 crossings from FL to CA, four times using interstates extensively, I did not see one long distance cyclist anywhere on any interstate. I also found out there are reasons for that. I cross into CA at Yuma, AZ. I get to 78 and through Glamis and such by going north on Ogilbie Rd. I have done that part of the ACA route 4 times--Plaster City, Ocotillo, 80, Jucumba, Pine Valley etc. I met only two others going transcontinental on that stretch. I did those tours in the dead of winter. I encountered extremes like 10 F and 7 F, but that was unusual. However, freezing and below were normal. I cycled from Stuart, FL south to Key West and back three times. Not the first cyclist did I see. I met loaded touring cyclists very frequently in the UK and Germany. I saw 4 total in Czech, Poland, Ukraine, Moldavia, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece and Italy. There were racing cyclists in Italy. On that trip from NYC to south Florida I saw nobody at all obviously loaded and touring. I used 90 east to west in north Florida three times on crossings where I met a total of 7 people touring, and they were in the same group. I may have met one other and that was all. I did 90 through TX and followed ACA to Van Horn and El Paso, and saw nobody long distance bike touring. From Van Horn to El Paso to Las Cruces I do not recall ever seeing anyone touring.  Of the several I met on the PCBR in 1993, all were north of San Francisco. From SF south I did not see any at all and I did not meet any in hostels or camp grounds. Of course, in populated areas they might be seeing sites or eating in restaurants or in motels when you go by, so not seeing them does not mean they are not there. I know I have cycled about 40,000 miles through 19 countries. Rarely do I see other long distance cyclists. I have done many shorter jaunts around south Florida and have never seen anyone else doing it. These days, however, one does occasionally see loaded cycling tourists passing through Stuart in the ACBR. I wonder if ACA knows about the excellent bike path from Hobe Sound, FL to Port Salerno just after leaving Jupiter Island on Bridge Road. We see tourists using US 1 when the bike path is 100 times nicer with zero noise and pollution.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: Westinghouse on October 08, 2018, 11:57:47 am
Westinghouse,

Your observations are interesting about the lack of meeting other bike riders.  I and 3 others) just rode a short section of BR66 from Amarillo to Tulsa.  Not including the supported westbound ACA?? group (maybe 12-15 riders), we passed 11 fully loaded cyclotourists going westbound (really wrong direction due to wind!) in this short stretch over 8 days.  These were ones we actually saw but were told of 2 other westbounders.  All but 2 were international (non-North America).  From my experience hosting primarily cyclists on BR66 (I live in Tulsa), I would say that only 50%, if that, of the riders use ACA maps.  We were also told that 2 others were a day ahead of us but our paths never crossed (we are somewhat slow).

My point is there were at least 19 loaded cyclotourists in a 375 mile stretch of BR66 NOT including ACA (they rode by in small groups and didn't stop to talk :-(  ).  Granted, this is end of prime season for BR66 so the numbers may be high but I can easily believe 200 people ride all or a major part (otherwise why be fully loaded out in the middle of the Texas panhandle) of BR66 a year.  And BR66 is not one of ACA's "Top Routes" by map sales I would guess.

Of course, on a specific bike route like 66 at high season or shoulder season, you will see others. I do not follow all of ACA's route. The 2 I did see on my last E to W on the ST were on the ACA route east of Pensacola and Fort Morgan that goes to Dauphin Island.  After Dauphin  Island I go to 90 while ACA goes father north into Louisiana. From El Paso north to Las Cruces on the ACA route I never saw anybody on three crossings. From Las Cruces west I take I-10 while ACA goes up to Silver City. I get I-10 at San Antonio and stay on interstates except where I have to get off temporarily. On 5 crossings from FL to CA, four times using interstates extensively, I did not see one long distance cyclist anywhere on any interstate. I also found out there are reasons for that. I cross into CA at Yuma, AZ. I get to 78 and through Glamis and such by going north on Ogilbie Rd. I have done that part of the ACA route 4 times--Plaster City, Ocotillo, 80, Jucumba, Pine Valley etc. I met only two others going transcontinental on that stretch. I did those tours in the dead of winter. I encountered extremes like 10 F and 7 F, but that was unusual. However, freezing and below were normal. I cycled from Stuart, FL south to Key West and back three times. Not the first cyclist did I see. I met loaded touring cyclists very frequently in the UK and Germany. I saw 4 total in Czech, Poland, Ukraine, Moldavia, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece and Italy. There were racing cyclists in Italy. On that trip from NYC to south Florida I saw nobody at all obviously loaded and touring. I used 90 east to west in north Florida three times on crossings where I met a total of 7 people touring, and they were in the same group. I may have met one other and that was all. I did 90 through TX and followed ACA to Van Horn and El Paso, and saw nobody long distance bike touring. From Van Horn to El Paso to Las Cruces I do not recall ever seeing anyone touring.  Of the several I met on the PCBR in 1993, all were north of San Francisco. From SF south I did not see any at all and I did not meet any in hostels or camp grounds. Of course, in populated areas they might be seeing sites or eating in restaurants or in motels when you go by, so not seeing them does not mean they are not there. I know I have cycled about 40,000 miles through 19 countries. Rarely do I see other long distance cyclists. I have done many shorter jaunts around south Florida and have never seen anyone else doing it. These days, however, one does occasionally see loaded cycling tourists passing through Stuart in the ACBR. I wonder if ACA knows about the excellent bike path from Hobe Sound, FL to Port Salerno just after leaving Jupiter Island on Bridge Road. We see tourists using US 1 when the bike path is 100 times nicer with zero noise and pollution. The number of touring cyclists I saw is not a lack of anything. It is simply what I saw. How what I encountered was a lacking of some kind is a mystery to me. I have been living in this densely populated city in south Florida now for 4 months. I have not seen the first loaded, long-distance bicycle tourist. I do not consider it a lack. It just is what it is.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: JHamelman on October 09, 2018, 08:55:18 am
Quote
I wonder if ACA knows about the excellent bike path from Hobe Sound, FL to Port Salerno just after leaving Jupiter Island on Bridge Road. We see tourists using US 1 when the bike path is 100 times nicer with zero noise and pollution.


No, we don't know about that path, would love to know more. If you have more information, most notably a map and/or a link, we can look at it the next time that map is updated.


FYI, I we don't route on US 1 through there (at least not on current maps, perhaps in the past). The Atlantic Coast route between Port Salerno and Hobe Sound is on CR A1A.


Thanks,
Jennifer

Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: Westinghouse on October 21, 2018, 03:48:03 pm
Quote
I wonder if ACA knows about the excellent bike path from Hobe Sound, FL to Port Salerno just after leaving Jupiter Island on Bridge Road. We see tourists using US 1 when the bike path is 100 times nicer with zero noise and pollution.


No, we don't know about that path, would love to know more. If you have more information, most notably a map and/or a link, we can look at it the next time that map is updated.


FYI, I we don't route on US 1 through there (at least not on current maps, perhaps in the past). The Atlantic Coast route between Port Salerno and Hobe Sound is on CR A1A. [/font off

Google maps for bicycles----Jupiter, FL to Port Salerno, FL. It will show the path at a 90 degree angle off Bridge Road. It is parallel to A1A. It starts S to N in quiet neighborhoods. It goes to a wide dedicated bike path.

Thanks,
Jennifer
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: Westinghouse on October 21, 2018, 03:59:05 pm
Quote
I wonder if ACA knows about the excellent bike path from Hobe Sound, FL to Port Salerno just after leaving Jupiter Island on Bridge Road. We see tourists using US 1 when the bike path is 100 times nicer with zero noise and pollution.


No, we don't know about that path, would love to know more. If you have more information, most notably a map and/or a link, we can look at it the next time that map is updated.


FYI, I we don't route on US 1 through there (at least not on current maps, perhaps in the past). The Atlantic Coast route between Port Salerno and Hobe Sound is on CR A1A. [/font off

Google maps for bicycles----Jupiter, FL to Port Salerno, FL. It will show the path at a 90 degree angle off Bridge Road. It is parallel to A1A. It starts S to N in quiet neighborhoods. It goes to a wide dedicated bike path.

Thanks,
Jennifer

Provisional retraction: I google mapped it before. It showed a route on that trail. I just google mapped it again. It showed a bike route through that  neighborhood, but made a right angle turn onto A1A long before the bike path. It is there completely off-road, smooth and wide
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: Nyimbo on October 22, 2018, 01:22:20 am
Westinghouse,
Try Ride with GPS.  Click on the  "plan your route" with the BIKE PATHS icon switched to on.  Its in the top right corner of the map space.  That will probably show your missing path, but since I don't know the area or the path you are referring to I can't say for positive.
Nyimbo
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: JHamelman on October 22, 2018, 09:20:31 am
Hmm. Neither Google or RWGPS are showing this path. I haven't turned on satellite view to look more closely. I'll pass it along to a contact in Florida and see if specific information can be found.

Thanks for the tip.

Jennifer
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: Westinghouse on October 22, 2018, 02:59:15 pm
Googling bike paths in Stuart and Martin County did not outline it. Google did one time. Go to the VFW with satellite. Get a closer look. You will see it. You can trace it north and south from there. Part of it may be hidden by trees and bushes.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: John Nettles on October 22, 2018, 04:01:56 pm
Perhaps Strava shows it????
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: KerryIrons on October 23, 2018, 01:04:11 pm
Googling bike paths in Stuart and Martin County did not outline it. Google did one time. Go to the VFW with satellite. Get a closer look. You will see it. You can trace it north and south from there. Part of it may be hidden by trees and bushes.

I'm working on this for Jenn here is what I find.  I start at SE Bridge Rd. in Hobe Sound and look along A1A and see train tracks to the west and a sidewalk on the east in satellite view.  Is it this sidewalk you're referring to?  It appears to end at Osprey St.  Then another path appears on the west side of A1A north of Osprey along Gomez Ave., which connects back to A1A north of the golf course and then ends at Cove Rd.  Is this what you are describing.  This is all that I can see in Google Maps satellite view.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: Westinghouse on October 23, 2018, 03:43:19 pm
Googling bike paths in Stuart and Martin County did not outline it. Google did one time. Go to the VFW with satellite. Get a closer look. You will see it. You can trace it north and south from there. Part of it may be hidden by trees and bushes.

I'm working on this for Jenn here is what I find.  I start at SE Bridge Rd. in Hobe Sound and look along A1A and see train tracks to the west and a sidewalk on the east in satellite view.  Is it this sidewalk you're referring to?  It appears to end at Osprey St.  Then another path appears on the west side of A1A north of Osprey along Gomez Ave., which connects back to A1A north of the golf course and then ends at Cove Rd.  Is this what you are describing.  This is all that I can see in Google Maps satellite view.

Gomez goes north a short distance, a short left and then right past the golf course where line goes to AIA. This neighborhood has sidewalks and low traffic. Road eventually goes to dead end amongst trees with a narrow sidewalk to the left when going north. All this is east of A1A and the RR tracks. Sidewalk connects to a wide path, maybe 8 or 10 feet wide. It goes north to the VFW and continues parallel to A1A into Salerno where it narrows again.
Title: Re: Statistics on cross country tourers
Post by: Westinghouse on October 23, 2018, 04:09:09 pm
This is better. You are going north on the AC route. You are leaving Jupiter Island and are going west on SE Bridge Road. You go over the bridge. You turn R, north on SE Gomez Ave. Stay on Gomez until you come to a T intersection at SE Crossrip St. Take a short left, and a right to continue on Gomez. Gomez ends as a dirt road. This is a low traffic area. Before Gomez ends you will see a narrow and good sidewalk to your left. That sidewalk goes straight on to a set of posts marking the south terminus of the dedicated bike path. The path goes to the VFW at that bend in A1A where A1A crosses the RR tracks. The path continues parallel to A1A into Salerno. The entire route is east of A1A and the tracks.

There is also a sidewalk along Commerce from Salerno to Wal Mart. That would require turning left over the tracks in Salerno.