Adventure Cycling Association Forum
Bicycle Travel => Gear Talk => Topic started by: Scotty0424 on December 18, 2021, 10:54:37 am
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Thought I'd beat this dead horse again ...On a recent trip I was trying out an ultralight Klymit (sp?) pad. As soon as I put my weight on it (215 lb) it went flat and, being too tired to mess with it, I left it that way. I'm looking for a DURABLE, lightweight and packable pad. It doesn't have to be full length (I'm 6'1"). Just looking for a good night's sleep. Won't buy Klymit again. Any ideas?
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I use some of the older NEO Air pads by ThermoRest. Full length and full width. I have gotten one or two pin holes in them and used trusty Tear Aid patches to fix them.
Don't give up on your mattress yet though. If your current mattress has some pin holes, I would highly suggest you buy some Tear Aid patches and just patch it. Tear Aid even has big patches if it is a bigger hole. Can't recommend Tear Aid enough. If the hole is a seam leak, I think it maybe under warranty.
If you want a fool-proof mattress, you will need to get the closed-cell foam style. They are only about 1/2" thick and can be a bit heavier, but they are basically bulletproof and cheaper. I would consider them but my fat old body likes the 2+" of cushion. When I was younger (and lighter), the closed cell types were fine.
Tailwinds, John
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The leaky mattress has found rest of its own in some landfill. I used. a 3/4 Thermarest for three months in Europe 20 years ago without a hint of leak. Tempted to go look for one of those. Meantime I'll pack some TearAid. Thanks for the comment.
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Remember, I got the 1st and 2nd generation NEO Air. I "think" the most current generations are lighter so probably have less fabric thickness so "may" be more prone to punctures.
I too wish the rush to reduce grams would not sacrifice durability. It is sad how a $500 tent has fabric so thin you can actually see through it. Almost makes me long for the old Eureka Timberline. It's getting to the point where I am almost willing to take a heavier "less quality" tent like a Eureka Mountain Pass and maybe buy it durable custom poles. The semi heavy-duty 68d polyester ripstop fabric will wear much longer than the current 15d-30d fabrics being used. Heck, some go as low as 7d. Why is it so hard to make a tent with a durable floor, fairly durable netting, a durable fly, and durable poles?
I will get off my soapbox now.
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Thought I'd beat this dead horse again ...On a recent trip I was trying out an ultralight Klymit (sp?) pad. As soon as I put my weight on it (215 lb) it went flat and, being too tired to mess with it, I left it that way. I'm looking for a DURABLE, lightweight and packable pad. It doesn't have to be full length (I'm 6'1"). Just looking for a good night's sleep. Won't buy Klymit again. Any ideas?
Well, this should go a few pages, and give us northerners an excuse to avoid riding in the cold.....
Again, I'm reassured by the fact I use the same equipment as John - currently, an old, full-size, rectangular Neo Air with >100 well-rested nights on it. No leaks (to date). As an old guy (and among other things, a sleep medicine specialist), I care a lot about the quality of my time in the rack. As Jay P - who won the Tour Divide this past year without a sleeping pad - might tell you, it's easy to fall asleep after a long day in the saddle, but sometimes it's tricky to wake up pain-free.
My Thermarest days also go back to the '80s, after years of collecting open and closed cell foam pads of varying thicknesses and lengths. Technology has come a long way. One would think the NeoAir would be old news by now, but in spite of the noise it makes, it still remains one of the more popular pads on the Great Divide Trail and GDMBR.
For what it's worth, one of the time-trialers I met on GDMBR this summer was using a Klymit Inertia X-frame. Even though he was running a minimalist pack (bike, food, water, tools, and equipment came in at ~34 pounds), he still carried a small, thin, roll-up pad to use under his skeleton pad to protect it from abrasion or puncture when sleeping directly on the ground.
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One would think the Neotec Air would be old news by now....
Is this an actual pad or a typo that should have read Neo Air? I am always on the lookout for new equipment. Whether I personally think it is better for me may be a different story but I will always be willing to at least look at something.
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Remember, I got the 1st and 2nd generation NEO Air. I "think" the most current generations are lighter so probably have less fabric thickness so "may" be more prone to punctures.
I too wish the rush to reduce grams would not sacrifice durability. It is sad how a $500 tent has fabric so thin you can actually see through it.
Almost makes me long for the old Eureka Timberline.
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There's still a lot of Timberlines out there. I think the one my father bought 50 y ago is still in operation - though those of us who started with canvas argued at the time that the new nylon tents were not sufficiently UV resistant and would wear out too quickly.
To further procrastinate about getting out to ride today, and at the risk of getting the thread heading down the wrong hole, I've attached a screen shot from the Eureka web site. Yep, the 2-man Timberline still comes in at 7.5 pounds, if you're really looking for something rugged to haul up the hills on your bike.
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One would think the Neotec Air would be old news by now....
Is this an actual pad or a typo that should have read Neo Air? I am always on the lookout for new equipment. Whether I personally think it is better for me may be a different story but I will always be willing to at least look at something.
Good eyes. Neotec is the name of a Shoei motorcycle helmet.... My post has been corrected. NeoAir.
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I have an Exped that is probably about 3-4 years old. I'd highly recommend it with one caveat- if you are in the desert southwest, goathead thorns have the ability to puncture anything and everything. I doubt there is a sleeping pad that would not be punctured. This, from first hand experience on a recent trip from San Diego to El Paso.
The bad part about the goatheads is that they leave a tiny puncture and there is virtually no way you'll find it without a tub to submerge it in. The "good" thing is that it would stay inflated for about half the night and then I'd be on the ground so at least I could reinflate it during the night without too much problem.
I was able to fix the leaks when I got home- they were very difficult to see even in the hot tub I was using but now its fixed. Other than this trip, I've been very happy with it.
Exped has a guide to selection- here is their site: https://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-category/mats?f%5B0%5D=field_mat_line%3A1121 (https://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-category/mats?f%5B0%5D=field_mat_line%3A1121)
They also offer an air bag inflator that is extremely light weight- called the Schnozzel: https://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-category/mats/schnozzel-pumpbag-ul-m-corn-yellow (https://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-category/mats/schnozzel-pumpbag-ul-m-corn-yellow)
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I have an Exped that is probably about 3-4 years old. I'd highly recommend it with one caveat- if you are in the desert southwest, goathead thorns have the ability to puncture anything and everything. I doubt there is a sleeping pad that would not be punctured. This, from first hand experience on a recent trip from San Diego to El Paso.
The bad part about the goatheads is that they leave a tiny puncture and there is virtually no way you'll find it without a tub to submerge it in. The "good" thing is that it would stay inflated for about half the night and then I'd be on the ground so at least I could reinflate it during the night without too much problem.
I was able to fix the leaks when I got home- they were very difficult to see even in the hot tub I was using but now its fixed. Other than this trip, I've been very happy with it.
I rode the ST from San Diego to Pensacola with some detours to take my own route. While I agree that goathead are terrible I have not had any trouble with them puncturing my Neoair pad. I have wild camped plenty on that trip and others in goathead country. I rode the southern half of the Sierra Cascades route. I rode from KS city to Santa Fe. I backpacked in the Sierras. Lots of wild camping on some of those trips less in others. Not many leaks at all and none that I blamed on thorns.
I've punctured feet and tires, but not sleeping pads. I take some care in picking where I settle for the night but nothing all that obsessive. Maybe I have just been lucky.
I did have the delaminating problem from sleeping with my bare skin on the pad, but they replaced that pad under warranty and I wore a tee after that with no more issues.
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They also offer an air bag inflator that is extremely light weight- called the Schnozzel: https://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-category/mats/schnozzel-pumpbag-ul-m-corn-yellow (https://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-category/mats/schnozzel-pumpbag-ul-m-corn-yellow)
Due to being immuno-compromised due to a transplant, I am not supposed to blow up a mattress since there is a chance deathly (to me) mold could reside inside the mattress. I currently use MSR's absolutely most unreliable product ever, their NEO Air pump. I have gone through 7, count them 7 of them. They were all under warranty because they all crapped out before the warranty expired. The dang things last about 20-30 nights then just crap out. For $35 you would think they could spend a few more $ and make it right since it is such a simple pump.
Anyway, have you (or anyone else) use the Schnozzel or similar bags?
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John Nettles- Yes, I have a Schnozzel and really like it. In most cases the air pad inflates with two "bags" of air. Much easier and quicker than the little air pump that comes with the Exped. One caveat- the little air pump would have been nice to have along the trip to add a bit of air as the pad leaked down overnight. It may, however, only work with Exped mattresses but I can't say for sure.
STAEHPJ1- I found the source of the goatheads that caused my issue. When I got up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom- some of them stuck to my shoes. Since I was in scorpion country, I always kept the shoes in the tent along the side (1 person tent)- didn't take long for leaks to start.
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STAEHPJ1- I found the source of the goatheads that caused my issue. When I got up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom- some of them stuck to my shoes. Since I was in scorpion country, I always kept the shoes in the tent along the side (1 person tent)- didn't take long for leaks to start.
Ah, makes sense. I never take shoes inside the tent. I kick them off when my knees are in and feet still out. The majority of the trips in goathead country I was using a bivy though, but again shoes never inside.
When using a solo tent I am really easy on the floor and pad because I don't move around in the tent. I pretty much crawl in lie down and don't move around. Same with a bivy. There is never much weight concentrated in one spot and not the grinding down on the floor that some floors get. So my tent floors tend to be pristine other than being dirty even with no footprint or groundsheet used. I don't know if that helps with not picking up thorns, but I have not had issues.
I hope I haven't cursed myself by saying all that.
BTW, I have had goathead thorns work through the soles of shoes. They are really nasty!
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John Nettles- Yes, I have a Schnozzel and really like it. In most cases the air pad inflates with two "bags" of air. Much easier and quicker than the little air pump that comes with the Exped.
How well does it provide a fairly firm mattress? In otherwords, with breaths you can get a mattress pretty dang firm. Can the Schnozzle do that or is it somewhat soft?
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It's really a function of how hard you squeeze the Schnozzle. Sometimes I have to let a little air out of it so I'd say its pretty dang firm. The little hand pump that comes with it will get it a bit firmer- you can always put the bulk air in with the Schnozzle then then make it even harder with the hand pump- but I've never taken the hand pump on trips with me.
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I have been using Big Agnes Air Core pads. I have one insulated and on non-insulated. I bought the insulated one for the my AT thru hike in 2007. It lasted to Harpers Ferry and I could not find the leak so I shipped it home and got a non-insulated replacement, since that was all the pack shop had in stock. The leaky one sat in a storage bin for a few years totally forgotten. Sorting out gear one day I came across it and tracked the leak to the valve area. I called BA and they said it was covered under warranty. - Cut off the valve to destroy the pad and sent them a picture and they sent a replacement.
After 10 years the non-insulated on failed as well and they replaced that one also. The new ones are lighter and noisier, but seem to be pretty durable, and the valves are different. They used to have a twist valve and I think I was too rough twisting it open and closed and that stressed the area where it attached. After that I would hold the valve in one hand and twist with the other.
I also picked up their inflator bag pump and it works incredible well. I usually fill the pad so it is tight and then lay on it and bleed out a little air to reach my comfort level.
BTW - Big Agnes just replaced my 15 year old Seedhouse SL2 from my AT hike (150+ camping nights) since the waterproofing was failing. Big Agnes and North Face have incredible product warranties and customer service. Jetboil it also very good, just not always 100% free :( - usually a steep discount to move to a current model.
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Sea to Summit Comfort Light Insulated FTW!
https://seatosummitusa.com/collections/sleeping-pads
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I'm looking for a DURABLE, lightweight and packable pad. I'm looking for a DURABLE, lightweight and packable pad." ----
Honestly, IMO, I don't think such a product exists. Today's lightweight inflated air sleeping pads just don't seem to hold air for long before they get a leak somewhere. I've tried Big Agnes, Thermarest Neoair, etc. and sooner or later they all get some sort of leak. Granted, the companies generally stand by their product and will take care of the problem, but that can take weeks. I still use the lightweight type pad for backpacking but for touring I've reverted to an old school,- 20 yrs, maybe - Thermarest. It's heavier and maybe not as comfortable but I've never had a leak with it and that's comforting when you're on the road for a month or longer. It's a trade off between weight and durability. On a long tour, I"ll take the weight penalty over sleeping on a deflated mat for who knows how long.
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I'm looking for a DURABLE, lightweight and packable pad. I'm looking for a DURABLE, lightweight and packable pad." ----
Honestly, IMO, I don't think such a product exists.
I think a lot of this has to do with the how it is used. My Neoair have been used backpacking and bike touring in goathead country and held up fine with no problems.It probably has to do with my tent/bivy habits. I never step on it. I never get in the tent or bivywith shoes on. I crawl in to the tent kicking my shoes off at the door. I generally lay right down and when in the tent I am generally either sleeping or reading.
These days I use a bivy or cowboy camp a lot. In either case i still do not step on the pad I sit on it to get in the sleeping bag and bivy.
I did have one failure with the very first model neoair, but it wasn't catastrophic and they replaced it without it ever failing to the point of being unuseable. It was the early delamination problem. Not sure if they still have that or not. I had the habit of sleeping on it with bare skin in hot weather. Body oils, sunscreen, and insect repellent probably attacked it. My bare skin was aklso very loud when I rolled over during the night since it stuck to the pad in hot weather. I started wearing a tech tee shirt and it seemed to resolve both issues. Anyone sleeping near me reported it was much quieter in camp when i wore the tee.
Oh, and fwiw I tended to have problems with leaks with the self inflating thermarest pads. Not sure if I was maybe just harder on them in those days.
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Out of curiosity, does anyone use the black closed foam pads anymore? I rarely have an issue with my NeoAir and I always tour with several Tear Aid patches but have thought about going back to the foam pads.
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Out of curiosity, does anyone use the black closed foam pads anymore? I rarely have an issue with my NeoAir and I always tour with several Tear Aid patches but have thought about going back to the foam pads.
I haven't in decades, but have considered what I'd do for colder weather and figured that a foam pad under my neoair would be the ticket. I'd probably go with an Exped FlexMat or Thermarest Z-Lite. The rhing is that I have found the neolight warm enough even on chilly nights or even pretty cold ones as long as the daytime temps are warmish and the ground isn't frozen. A 50+ F day leaves the ground fairly warm so even if the overnight low is in the teens I find the neoair up to the task. These days I haven't been too inclined to tour of backpack in truly cold weather (like with sub freezing daytime highs). XC ski or snowshoe trips haven't been in the mix but they would be the likely reason why I'd need to double up on the pad.
I can see using one of those pads as an only pad, but I expect that being as thin as they are they'd be less comfortable and I've become spoiled these days. Also they are bulky if that matters to you packing needs. Still I admit to being intrigued by them and the simplicity of not needing to deal with inflation.
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Pete, like you I haven't used one in decades (whenever the original thermorest came out). Likewise, I like the simplicity and durability. Probably just my body aging but I swear, they were fine when I was 17!
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Pete, like you I haven't used one in decades (whenever the original thermorest came out). Likewise, I like the simplicity and durability. Probably just my body aging but I swear, they were fine when I was 17!
Yeah I wonder how I'd do with one now. Maybe it would be better than I think. I suspect that if the ground under it was flat and forgiving I'd be fine, but the 2-1/2" thick inflatable pads allow for a lot more bumps, rocks, roots, and irregularity in the ground.
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I recently purchased a Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XLite from REI. I haven’t used it on any bikepacking trips yet but have so on two backpacking trips. Weighs 12 ounces and has an R-Value of 4.2. It’s extremely comfortable but also $200.
If you want something cheaper, my other pad is a Kelty Cosmic Air. Weighs 16 ounces and has an R-Value of 4. All for $40.
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I recently purchased a Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XLite from REI. I haven’t used it on any bikepacking trips yet but have so on two backpacking trips. Weights 12 ounces and has an R-Value of 4.2. It’s extremely comfortable but also $200.
If you want something cheaper, my other pad is a Kelty Cosmic Air. Weighs 16 ounces and has an R-Value of 4. All for $40.
Wow it has been a long time since I bought a neoair and I forgot how expensive they were. I wondered what I paid for mine so I dug through old emails and found that I paid $150 in 2009. I had forgotten what a big splurge it was. I guess it was worth it though since it has been on a lot of trips, been super comfortable, and held up well. Knocking off 4 ounces from the gear is worth a good bit if it is the only factor, but of course it never is.
That said the range of prices for various seemingly fairly similar pads seems kind of mind boggling to me.
I'd kind of like to try out one of the folding foam egg crate type pads. Maybe the Z-Lite Sol? I figure it would be useful if I ever need to supplement my Neoair for a real winter trip. I also figure it would be fine for comfort on the sandy sites canoe and kayak camping here in Florida. Also I am considering hiking the Florida Trail either in chunks or maybe even a thru hike. I figure it would be nice to not need to inflate a pad every night if the comfort was adequate (which I expect it would be on most sites here). I also figure it would make a decent seat cushion in my pirogue and be much lighter than what I am using now. If REI's return policy is still good enough to allow for a decent trial and return I may buy one take it out for a local hike or flat a local river and return it if it fails muster. We have a local REI opening soon (they say spring, but I haven't heard a date), so if I wait just a bit I can avoid dealing with return shipping.
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I recently purchased a Therm-a-Rest NeoAir XLite from REI. I haven’t used it on any bikepacking trips yet but have so on two backpacking trips. Weights 12 ounces and has an R-Value of 4.2. It’s extremely comfortable but also $200.
If you want something cheaper, my other pad is a Kelty Cosmic Air. Weighs 16 ounces and has an R-Value of 4. All for $40.
Wow it has been a long time since I bought a neoair and I forgot how expensive they were. I wondered what I paid for mine so I dug through old emails and found that I paid $150 in 2009. I had forgotten what a big splurge it was. I guess it was worth it though since it has been on a lot of trips, been super comfortable, and held up well. Knocking off 4 ounces from the gear is worth a good bit if it is the only factor, but of course it never is.
That said the range of prices for various seemingly fairly similar pads seems kind of mind boggling to me.
I'd kind of like to try out one of the folding foam egg crate type pads. Maybe the Z-Lite Sol? I figure it would be useful if I ever need to supplement my Neoair for a real winter trip. I also figure it would be fine for comfort on the sandy sites canoe and kayak camping here in Florida. Also I am considering hiking the Florida Trail either in chunks or maybe even a thru hike. I figure it would be nice to not need to inflate a pad every night if the comfort was adequate (which I expect it would be on most sites here). I also figure it would make a decent seat cushion in my pirogue and be much lighter than what I am using now. If REI's return policy is still good enough to allow for a decent trial and return I may buy one take it out for a local hike or flat a local river and return it if it fails muster. We have a local REI opening soon (they say spring, but I haven't heard a date), so if I wait just a bit I can avoid dealing with return shipping.
They’re quite expensive! I’m impressed with the Kelty honestly. We were backpacking a route from Bryce Canyon to the Grand Canyon last March and my REI pad failed to inflate one night so I slept on the group. Couldn’t find the hole the next day so hitchhiked into Flagstaff and went to REI. They didn’t have any lightweight REI pads in stock so they gave me the Kelty since it was similar in price. I’d owned the REI pad for ~4 years and they didn’t give me any hassle with the return. I doubt your new REI will either.
If you end up with it, post a review!
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Out of curiosity, does anyone use the black closed foam pads anymore? I rarely have an issue with my NeoAir and I always tour with several Tear Aid patches but have thought about going back to the foam pads.
Memory lane. Still have a couple of thicker pads for use in the snow, but they haven't found their way onto my bike in years.