Adventure Cycling Association Forum
Bicycle Travel => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rep on August 23, 2008, 12:39:56 pm
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Hi
I am beginning the process of planning a tour that will begin in mid May of 09. It is now late August of 08.
I have never toured and seek advice on where to begin planning a tour from Wisconsin to Washington state. I am 58 years old and am retired. I currently have no travel partner but will attempt to find one.
I will need almost all of the equipment for a self contained tour. I will need almost all specialized clothing. I will camp most of the time and cook most of my own meals.
Given that scenario and time line, how would you begin preparations?
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If you haven't reviewed the help on ACA's web site How-to, that's a good start. There is no shortage of advice/help here. Another excellent site is crazyguyonabike.com. Enjoy.
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Read everything you can get your hands on. Get the maps for the route you want and cross reference with other sources of information. Look for sales and start collecting equipment. (REI is having sales, BTW) I use Backpacker Magazine for info on eq. otherwise it can be intimidating comparing weight, size, etc. You live in Wisconsin? I'm betting you already have some clothes you'll need. Good luck.
This message was edited by mlt22193 on 8-23-08 @ 1:58 PM
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It is late in the season, but perhaps taking a back packing class would benefit you. There is a lot of crossover. A lot of the gear is the same, and a lot of the techniques are the same.
I would also encourage you to do some overnight shake down trips while you work out your way of doing things. You will want to know where you packed your tights for quick access if the temp drops or where your raincoat is if it starts to rain.
Good luck.
Danno
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Do you have any kind of self supported camping experience (kayak camping, canoe camping, backpacking, etc.)? If not that makes the learning curve much steeper. At very least you want to have gear that will work well for the conditions and be familiar enough with it to use it.
If you are an experienced camper and have some riding experience, bike touring should be an easy transition.
To determine what to take, reading the packing lists and "what worked and what didn't" lists in peoples journals on crazyguyonabike is a good place to start. Reading the rest of the journals helps too. You can start with mine, but read other ones as well. Mine is at http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/staehling2007
I would advise using the Adventure cycling maps if a route is close enough to where you want to go (the Northern Tier maybe?). They are a wealth of info and negate the need for much or even any route planning. You will find all of the services that you will require listed along with contact info for them.
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Don't be intimiated as your have got a ton of time.
I have met people on tour who are using dept store bikes and have 1 set of clothes and a tarp & sheet strapped to their rear rack and were having a blast and others with literally $10k worth of customized bike & gear who weren't as happy since some things were not going as they had planned.
Point is don't over plan as on any long trip, it never stays as planned. A lot of the learing can be OTJ training if need be, i.e. look for rocks and roots BEFORE you setup your tent so when you finally go to bed your back is not being stuck. Obviously, the advice others gave is quite valid but be sure to not fret too much if your aren't 100% ready. You can always take another day on tour if need be since your are retired you lucky guy!
Since it sounds like this is your first trip like this, perhaps you might consider buying high quality used equipment in case touring is not your cup of tea.
Also, depending on your route & distance per day, you might arrive in the Rockies a tad early as snow can melt late there. After you get your draft route planned out, you can an idea of how long it will take you to reach the passes and then find out if they are typically open by then.
My best advice is to start off with a properly sized/tuned bike and know how to do at least minimal repairs, i.e. change a flat/tire, adjust brakes & gears, and adjust seat and handlebars.
Also, don't overpack. If the item can not do at least 2 functions, do not take it unless CRITICAL such as a stove. Do you really need that pillow or can just some balled up clothes work in a pillowcase (doubles as a laundry bag)?
As Jim said, crazyguy is a great site so you can research/ask questions there also. Read the journals to get an idea of problems they may have had to learn from their lessons.
Most of all, enjoy the ride!!
Happy trails and may the wind be at your back!
TulsaJohn
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JimF - I did check out the wealth of information at the web page. You are correct, it answered many questions. TY.
mlt22193...I headed over to FEI's store near St. Paul, MN the other day. Great sales as you stated.
paddleboy17 - I plan two short, regional tours yet this fall. Then, prior to leaving next spring, I will actually begin the trip at lake Michigan and travel the 250 miles back to my home in west central WI. That will be my shake down cruise. I will then evaluate, make adjustments and leave from home.
staehpj1 - I do have canoe and vast amounts of camping experience. Your idea about reading about tours is well taken. And yes, I would take the Northern Tier using the AC maps.
TulsaJohn - I like this advice. In short, take a deep breath, have confidence and enjoy.
TY all for the tips.
Drink beer, gain weight. Ride bike, lose weight.
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My 2 cents: Don't give up the beer! Just ride more. :)
You'll get lots of good advice in all the places suggested. Spend lots of time on your bike, especially in the couple of months before heading out. Since you plan on some shakedown tours, you should be fine. I think that the more fit you are, the more fun you will have. The first couple of weeks can be a real bear for folks who aren't toughed up a little.
Have a blast!
Cheers,
Scott
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I think you will take to touring quite easily since you have a lot of camping experience. You will want to pack a lot lighter than you need to for canoe camping, but most of the required skills transfer just fine.
Being in good shape at the start is a plus, but if you aren't don't fret. Just take it real easy to start. On a trip that long taking it easy for the first 10-14 days will not set you back much. My advice is to ease into it in any case. Logging epic mileage in the beginning is likely to be counter productive.
Figure out what works for you, but I find it better to do daily mileage that can be sustained long term and skip the rest days unless they are do do something cool like a rafting trip or a long hike. Sitting around in a motel room vegging out in front of a tv is a complete waste of time. When you feel like you need a break take a half day and go for a swim or read a book in a scenic setting or something in the afternoon.
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OK
TY for all of the encouragement.
My wife and I were almost killed on Sunday night at the intersection of I94, I694 and the beginning of I494 in St. Paul, MN.
Long story short, our car was stopped in traffic. Big Pickup, the kind so big it needs four wheels on the back hauling a twenty foot trailer skidded up behind us, swerved, crossed into the medium strip, bounced a great deal and landed in the other two lane highway facing the wrong way.
On Monday I told Lavonne, I am biking to Washington state. Life is short.
Now, how do I go about considering head winds?
- Do I want to start in western Wisconsin and head west? (My preference.)
- Do I fly to Washington and ride back?
- Do I bike to Washington and bike back? (Total time may be an issue.)
My real question is where do I find real data, not opinion on head winds?
TY
Drink beer, gain weight. Ride bike, lose weight.
This message was edited by Rep on 9-10-08 @ 7:22 PM
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Climate data often has prevailing surface winds listed by speed and direction for each month. I know of no single source for it, but is possible to find it for each state. Google search is your friend here.
My advice would be to forget it though and make the decision based on the many other factors.
My preference is to get the flying or motorized surface travel out of the way first. I hate to be tied to a fixed end date and have to catch a plane on a particular day. Sometimes this is unavoidable, but I avoid it when I can.
Other factors include:
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- Whether you want the sun in your eyes in the morning or evening.
- Whether you want to start far away to fully commit to the tour.
- Whether you want to be headed home or away from home.
- What the temperatures, humidity and snow conditions are at the time you will be traveling.
- Having friends and family waiting at your arrival is a big plus. I can't describe what a great feeling it was to be greeted by friends and family at the end and the celebration picnic at the finish in Yorktown was wonderful. I was actually moved to tears.
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Dear Rep -
Yup - that intersection can be rough. Glad you were not hit. A couple of comments regarding the direction of your ride - having done your route twice. If you know where Red Wing, MN is, I lived there for 20 years.
As you know, in western Wisconsin, the wind rarely blows from the west or east. It is more often northwest or southeast. Same holds true until the rockies. You will battle cross winds much more often than headwinds.
If you start in mid-May from Washington, you will likely have problems with snow and cold conditions through mid-June. Many people encounter snow into late June when crossing the Rockies.
If you start in Wisconsin and head west, you might get some freezes and frosts, but you won't get appreciable snow. There is a reason most supported cross country rides don't start until mid-June - cold and snow.
If you ride west, when you get to Washington State, you should consider riding Amtrak back. You can box your bike and it gets handled pretty well in their luggage area. You will ahve to get picked up at the Minneapolis Station. It is a 36 hour train ride and interesting.
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It is a good idea to have some idea of what services will be available to you along various points on your route. If you do not carry sufficient food and water, there may be long distances between supplies.
I cycled through Texas hill country in summer. I checked the map and saw there was a string of small towns on my route, so I carried supplies sufficient only for getting from town to town which would lighten my load. What I found out was that these little towns as marked on the map did not eally exist. They were only names on a map. There I was on 100 degrees F, without food and water and fifty miles to the nearest actual town, and even that was only a crossroads with one piddly little store and a few houses. If not for some kind people who gave me a bag of turkey sandwiches, cookies, and bottles of water, I would have been in a fix. By the way, some days on that tour I drank three gallons of liquid per day. I cycled from Florida to Los Angeles, California. LA was an offensive, unfriendly place. I was glad to leave there.
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To tell you the truth, bicycle touring the way I do it does not require long term planning. Load the panniers, grab some road maps, and you are on your way, but then I have put in a lot of miles bicycle touring around the world. For a true beginner it might seem more complicated. After you get the hang of it you just go.
If your proposed tour is a long one, I recommend you change all these components with new ones:
1. wheels
2. tires
3. tubes
4. chain
5. freewheel
6. front chainrings
7. front and rear deraileurs
8. brake pads
9. brake and deraileur cables
10. handlebar padding
I have two new Shimano deraileurs waiting for my next long tour.
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Well, equipment is coming together. I found an REI Novara Safari on Craig's list. It was purchased new last May and I got it for $475.00
Then, on e-bay I found a BOB that was delivered yesterday.
So things are coming together and it is time to decide where to go.
I may do some statewide or regional tours next summer then plan a long 6 week type tour that next year.
Of course, I want to head out tomorrow. That would be in a snowstorm I guess. Not the best idea.
Drink beer, gain weight. Ride bike, lose weight.
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I hope the bike and trailer work out well for you. Have a great time touring!
Some shorter tours to learn are not a bad idea, but... They are not an absolute necessity. You can do a long tour as a first tour if that works for you. Three of us did a coast to coast with no real touring experience, but a lot of camping experience. It worked out very well.
Short tours and long tours are an entirely different thing. You may like one and not the other. I love to be on the road, but tours of less than a week just aren't that much fun to me. I'd rather do day rides than do a weekend tour. My point is that you should keep an open mind if you try a short tour and don't like it much. You may still like the cross country type experience.
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staehpj1, wrote...
"I hope the bike and trailer work out well for you. Have a great time touring!
Some shorter tours to learn are not a bad idea, but... They are not an absolute necessity. You can do a long tour as a first tour if that works for you. Three of us did a coast to coast with no real touring experience, but a lot of camping experience. It worked out very well.
Short tours and long tours are an entirely different thing. You may like one and not the other. I love to be on the road, but tours of less than a week just aren't that much fun to me. I'd rather do day rides than do a weekend tour. My point is that you should keep an open mind if you try a short tour and don't like it much. You may still like the cross country type experience."
In the months since I began this thread, the above by staehpj1 has become increasingly apparent.
I have spent my time and money learning more about touring as well as developing a plan to upgrade bikes and equipment.
I think this spring I will take three short tours in WI & MN. Two will accumulate 4-500 miles each with another that will stretch to 150 miles. That will be my shake down.
I may have an opportunity to be dropped off out west and ride bake to WI later in the summer.
I continue to ride this winter, but the reasons are different from touring but do keep me on the bike each day.
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You can follow highway 2 for quite a long distance on your proposed route. ACA has maps for what you want to do. I would take a look at those maps. They contain information that may prove to be invaluable to you.
I did 2600 miles of the N-tier in 1987, west to east. I flew from Florida to Seattle, cycled to Ana Cortes, and began from there. I did so because of what I had heard about prevailing winds. I can only tell you from what I remember, which is not very much as this was not a journaled tour. Wind, as I remember it, was not that much of a concern until I had gotten out of the mountains, and down into the foothills. There in the foothills I do vividly remember very strong winds blowing from west to east. The land was rolling. It was like being on a moped or something. Much of the time I could not even get torque in my highest gear. I would not attempt to pedal against such forceful winds. That is about all I can remember about that.
This message was edited by Westinghouse on 12-28-08 @ 4:00 AM
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Hi
Does anybody have any good sites they visit for menu ideas, food planning and tips?
I will want to cook at least one simple meal a day as well as some type of healthy snack with a restaurant meal thrown in as well.
The only purchase I really need to make yet is a stove. I am thinking of the MSR Whisperlite International from REI. Anybody use this one?
Thanks
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I am not certain how obtainable these books still are.
"Eat To Win" "Sports Nutrition"
I have not used the Whisperlite myself; however, I have spoken with one or two people who have, and I have read many bicycle touring journals. People are completely satisfied with it from what I am able to ascertain. I cannot imagine you would be making a mistake choosing it for your tour. In fact, it an excellent choice.
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I have a Whisperlite but I use it mostly when I am kayak-camping. When I solo
tour on a bike I prefer taking a Primus
Express Stove (http://www.primuscamping.com/product.php?id=72) because I personally hate carrying liquid fuel in my
panniers. This thing is so incredibly small when folded up and the integrated lighter is
super handy. The stove and fuel cartridge fit conveniently into a
Litech Trek Kettle Pot (http://www.primuscamping.com/product.php?id=37).
I wrap the cartridge in a microfibre cloth before slipping it into the pot to keep from
scratching the non-stick surface, and it doubles as a dish rag. This is the most
compact cooking set up I've come across so far. I've pulled off the side of the road
and boiled up some ramen noodles in no time flat, ate out of the pot and just wiped
up the pot until I could get to the next place I could properly wash it out.
I've gotten good at making one-pot meals. I guess like a lot of cyclists I've met,
my favourite food staples revolve around variations on pasta or rice. Macaroni
and Cheese is always easy and I jazz it up with a can of smoked oysters or flaked
ham. On my last tour I came across a roadside stand that sold dried morel
mushrooms and they were awesome cooked with rice, then a bit of butter stirred
in. yum!
This message was edited by geeg on 1-1-09 @ 10:02 PM
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A warning on gas cartridge stoves. Fuel is very hard to find in much of the US. We tried every Walmart and sporting goods store from Pueblo to Kentucky without finding any.
It is possible to ship isobutane fuel via ground mail (domestic mail only). The package must have the following label attached on the address side of the package:
"Surface Mail Only
Consumer commodity
ORM-D"
This will allow you to get fuel via general delivery in the portion of an xc trip where fuel was impossible to find if you have someone willing to mail stuff to you.
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Thanks for the advice. I do think I will pack the Whisper mainly because of fuel availability. I can always try this and move to a Primus type stove later if I don't like the liquid fuel option.
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I really like the isobutane cartridge stoves, but yes the ability to find white gas is easier. On the other hand it can be hard to find white gas in quantities under a gallon sometimes. I think that in a pinch the Whisperlite might also burn unleaded gasoline.
The whisperlite has had some reported problems with the plastic pump. You may want to either:
[list=1]
- Be very careful with the pump.
- Carry spare parts.
- Or, maybe consider the Optimus Nova (more expensive, but with a metal pump).
You might want to read the discussion at:
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/forum/board/message/?o=3Tzut&thread_id=80057&v=1n&page=1&nested=0
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My name is James, and I too seek advice advice about a tour. But I plan on biking around the World on a mountain bike (my favorite). And I too am from WI (Watertown), and 58! What a coincident!
Although my touring experience is limited, in 2000 I toured parts of England and Wales. It was a Great ride and adventure, but my MB (a rather expensive one) was stolen in London. So make sure your bike is well secured and insured! Fortunately, my bike was insured, and when I returned to WY I bought a new MB.
Keep in touch!
James
abnjim6@gmail.com
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Well, equipment is coming together. I found an REI Novara Safari on Craig's list. It was purchased new last May and I got it for $475.00
Then, on e-bay I found a BOB that was delivered yesterday.
So things are coming together and it is time to decide where to go.
I may do some statewide or regional tours next summer then plan a long 6 week type tour that next year.
Of course, I want to head out tomorrow. That would be in a snowstorm I guess. Not the best idea.
Drink beer, gain weight. Ride bike, lose weight.
It is kind of fun to read this old thread. The Safari is working out very well. I have 700 miles on it so far this spring. I have gathered all of the equipment I need for touring. Well, one is never fully supplied, right?
I head out on my first regional tour in two days. I am going solo to Green Bay, WI, a trip of 225 miles by car. I plan on four days there, some time with family and four days back.
I can't wait.
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Best of luck, and have a great ride.
One quick consideration--think about using a mirror, if you're not already. I wouldn't ride the roads, city or country, without one. I've been riding bikes for 50 years, and for about 35 of them with a mirror. There have been several times I've had to take evasive action, i.e., riding off the road onto the shoulder or into the ditch, because of approaching cars from the rear looking like they're going to hit me.
I know most riders don't use them. I've got a friend who claims he can tell by the sound if a car is coming too close. Bou, I sure can't hear well enough to tell if a car is coming a foot or two closer to the right where I'm riding!
Again, all the best!
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Best of luck, and have a great ride.
One quick consideration--think about using a mirror, if you're not already. I wouldn't ride the roads, city or country, without one. I've been riding bikes for 50 years, and for about 35 of them with a mirror. There have been several times I've had to take evasive action, i.e., riding off the road onto the shoulder or into the ditch, because of approaching cars from the rear looking like they're going to hit me.
I know most riders don't use them. I've got a friend who claims he can tell by the sound if a car is coming too close. Bou, I sure can't hear well enough to tell if a car is coming a foot or two closer to the right where I'm riding!
Again, all the best!
Thanks for the suggestion about the mirrors. I do have one on all my bikes. I keep an eye on approaching cars and wait to see them break for the, "line", then I know I am safe.
In addition, I run a P7 flashlight on strobe whenever I leave my garage, night or day. I turn my lights on just like the newer autos do when their key is turned. In addition, I have a Vetta taillight that does not wash out in the daylight.
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Rep -- I've used a Whisperlite stove on several tours and found it works well. Obtaining fuel in other than gallon containers can be difficult. Some outdoor equipment stores sell it in small quantities; another possibility is buying enough to fill your fuel container from car campers who have a gallon for their camp stove (they'll probably just give it to you). The best way to carry the fuel bottle is in a water bottle cage. If your Safari is like mine, a cage can be mounted on the bottom of the down tube, a perfect place for the fuel. If it does leak, no problem.
If your considering additional "short" tours, a wonderful area that's not too far for you is Michigan's Upper Peninsula, particularly the Keweenaw Peninsula. Adventure Cycling once rated it as one of the 10 best places to tour in the U.S. I use to live there, and it's got many attractions for touring -- Lake Superior shoreline roads, forests, inland lakes, friendly small towns, historic sites, etc.
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Rep -- I've used a Whisperlite stove on several tours and found it works well. Obtaining fuel in other than gallon containers can be difficult. Some outdoor equipment stores sell it in small quantities; another possibility is buying enough to fill your fuel container from car campers who have a gallon for their camp stove (they'll probably just give it to you). The best way to carry the fuel bottle is in a water bottle cage. If your Safari is like mine, a cage can be mounted on the bottom of the down tube, a perfect place for the fuel. If it does leak, no problem.
If your considering additional "short" tours, a wonderful area that's not too far for you is Michigan's Upper Peninsula, particularly the Keweenaw Peninsula. Adventure Cycling once rated it as one of the 10 best places to tour in the U.S. I use to live there, and it's got many attractions for touring -- Lake Superior shoreline roads, forests, inland lakes, friendly small towns, historic sites, etc.
Thanks roadrunner
I just got back from my first solo self supported tour and am ready to head out again.
I used unleaded gasoline in my whisperlite and it worked very well.
Actually, I have been thinking of heading north to Lake Superior. I was thinking Ashland, WI before heading SE to visit my sister in the Antigo area, then rolling back home through Wausau.
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With the Menomonie, WI to Green Bay trip of 540 miles completed I now look to MN next week. I had a ball and met so many wonderful people. I will be making some equipment adjustments this next trip.
I had an extra duffel bag I loaded on top of my Bob's dry sack. I learned it was a hassle to get things out of it when needed and it was a wind catcher.
Therefore, I will compress my sleeping bag and maybe place it on the rear rack. In addition, I will carry rear panniers to store food, stove and light gear that may be needing easier access. Eventually I will get low rider front racks and panniers but that must wait.
I will ride about 260 miles from central Minnesota back home to Wisconsin.
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This is so awesome. And I am very happy for your adventures.
This is why I advocate short trips to shake out your technique. You will converge on a way that works for you, but you still need a chance to try things out at first. Something may really bug you, and you can put up with it for a day or two unit you complete your ride, but living with it for weeks is another matter.
Well Done!
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TY for all the comments.
I piked up a pair of Keen Commuter cycling sandals the day before I left. When I put them on they felt just like the regular pair I have used for a couple of years. I love them and no break in period was needed.
That said, I do need some advice.
I also took a pair of those plastic clogs that are popular to use a off bike shoes and shower shoes.
Anybody simply use their sandals as shower shoes? I would not mind cutting down on some bulk.
Comments?
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I have a pair of foam flip flops that I take on my tours. I put them in a mesh pocket on the outside of one of my panniers. I am more concerned about the weight than the bulk. That is what works for me.
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Prior to leaving on a short tour I read a thread somewhere either here, Bike Forums or Crazy Guy about what people like about touring.
As I rode my first day or two I began to wonder what kind of a tourer I would be, or, if even I would like it.
I stopped in a small town restaurant to have a meal and ask directions. The staff enjoyed our conversation as they do not get many people touring via bike. They were very good to me.
As it turns out a a week and a half after the end of my tour I had to take a car trip through that same town. I stopped to have lunch.
The owner said, "Are you that guy on a bike from a couple of weeks ago?" We chatted a bit and as I stood in line to pay my bill, the cashier also recognized me. It was fun to relate to these people.
For me, this and other instances may add up to the people I meet as being the enjoyable part of touring.
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Best of luck, and have a great ride.
One quick consideration--think about using a mirror, if you're not already. I wouldn't ride the roads, city or country, without one. I've been riding bikes for 50 years, and for about 35 of them with a mirror. There have been several times I've had to take evasive action, i.e., riding off the road onto the shoulder or into the ditch, because of approaching cars from the rear looking like they're going to hit me.
I know most riders don't use them. I've got a friend who claims he can tell by the sound if a car is coming too close. Bou, I sure can't hear well enough to tell if a car is coming a foot or two closer to the right where I'm riding!
Again, all the best!
Thanks for the suggestion about the mirrors. I do have one on all my bikes. I keep an eye on approaching cars and wait to see them break for the, "line", then I know I am safe.
In addition, I run a P7 led flashlight (http://www.robustbuy.com/led-lighting-gadgets-led-flashlights-c-505_1027_730.html) on strobe whenever I leave my garage, night or day. I turn my lights on just like the newer autos do when their key is turned. In addition, I have a Vetta taillight that does not wash out in the daylight.
Yes using mirror is quite useful. I am also using bike for at lest 10 years and i think mirror is a good practice.