Adventure Cycling Association Forum
Bicycle Travel => Gear Talk => Topic started by: forrest on August 21, 2011, 10:58:23 am
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I am new to cross country touring. I am going to purchase a trailer, after reading about panniers vs trailers it seem that it is a personal thing. I have talked to and seen riders with both and just as many problem happen with both. So if you have one of the following trailers or have used more than one please give me you thoughts on them. I am looking at the following trailers, the Maya, Bobs yak, Topeak,and a new one once called Adventure ct1. also if you have used a single and or a double let me know. I am leaning towards the single wheel as it looks like the double can tip over easy. Please give me your honest take and not a bunch of why I should not have a trailer I have already ruled out panniers except for front one to help balance out the bike. I have a scattante roma hybrid that I will be riding. Please let me know any trouble you have had and what you may change on the trailer Thanks.
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You should do a search in this forum for trailers. There has been a lot of discussion on the pros and cons of trailers. You may find much of the information you are looking for.
I have a Bob Yak. I've done several tours with it and I like it. I pulls easily and doesn't affect bike handling other than I have to make a wider turn (just like a trailer on a car). I also attached a Greenfield kick stand to the fork. It makes it much easier to park. The bob bag is nice because it is waterproof and holds quite a bit but you can use just about any roll top bag(s). After some wet rides I've hosed it off to get the grime off without removing the contents or worrying about anything getting wet. It also easy to bungie cord additional items to the top or sides of the bag.
Also since the trailer wheel tracks behind the rear wheel I don't have to worry about the trailer hitting a pothole or other debris.
The one thing I have to be careful about is the attachment/detachment. The cable to the rear derailer (?) will snag the locking pin. With practice I've developed a method to avoid it but it still happens occasionally.
I just ordered the 28 inch fork (replacement) and I'm not happy with it. It appears that BOB's quality control has suffered (made in Taiwan). The fork attaches to the trailer using a metal rod. Where the fork actually contacts the trailer there is a teflon gasket and in the middle is a metal fitting (metal rod slips through) that is supposed to be flush with teflon gasket. The teflon gasket minimizes the friction. Unfortunately on the replacement fork the metal fitting sits up about 1/4 inch. So instead of teflon on metal it is not metal on metal so it doesn't move back and forth as easily and it wears on the trailer attachment point. I contacted the dealer and I'm not real happy with the response. I sent an email to BOB and I'm waiting for their reply.
BOB is sending a new fork to replace the defective one. They responded promptly to correct the issue.
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I am leaning towards the single wheel as it looks like the double can tip over easy.
Bicycling magazine had a review of two-wheel trailers several years ago, and they said it was almost impossible to make them tip over, even if you try hard.
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To my way of thinking it is better to go with whatever allows you to carry the least weight. In most cases that would be panniers. It isn't a slam dunk though since some pannier setups can be heavier than some trailer setups.
I owned a Yakima Big Tow (BoB clone) and sold it to buy panniers. The main reasons? First it weighed 13 pounds plus the bag and my panniers weighed about half that. The other reason, I think it would be a hassle to ship a bike and trailer or fly with a bike and a trailer.
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Shipping a bike is more hassle than the trailer. I ship my bob in an ortlieb big zip. It is like a big duffel bag and easily holds the trailer and lots of other gear. Never gone over 50 lbs so I haven't had to pay the exorbitant baggage fees. The big zip can also double at another waterproof bag.
I've also read a review that stated the individual hit a pothole and this caused the bike to spill, the trailer to turn over and the contents of the trailer to fall into the roadway.
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I have only used a 'BOB', and do not see much need to try a different trailer. I have 2, both at least 10 years old. Used the same ones on 26" MTB frames and also 700C road frames.
I like the idea of the majority of your items 'behind' you. Nothing to get run over, caught in your spokes, wrapped around your forks etc. The other benefit is wind. A 'BOB' drafts behind you, low and streamlined out of the way. The wind does not push you around like with bags on your forks either. Plus your center of gravity is lower than with bags. Also nice to pull up to your camping spot and pull (2) pins and it is off.
I put an additional rear rack over the fender of my 'BOB' and use a set of small dog panniers with the rack. Yes, you need to makeshift a flat 1" steel bar from the front of the rack down to the floor of the Bob cage, but it is a great addition.
The weight issue, I am OK with; that verses fighting the Wind and the potential for things near my spokes.....
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Please be very careful if you decide on a one wheel Bob. If they are not loaded correctly they can cause your bike to completely lose control
at the most inopportune time, downhill.
On our last TA tour we met an Aussie gal that had that very thing happen to her on a downhill. She was unconscious for two hours down in a drainage ditch until someone found her. She had to fly home to convalesce for two months before she could continue her tour. She was East to West and the accident happened the first week or so of her trip.
I have over 10,000 miles on my Burley Nomad two wheel trailer and never any control or tipping issues and never once concerned myself with weight distribution. Having said that if I was ever to to do off road single track touring I wouldn't hesitate to use a Bob Yak.
James
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... If they are not loaded correctly they can cause your bike to completely lose control...
[Citation Needed]
Seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence as this is presented. While I don't doubt that if you have an insecure load, grossly over limit load, or other anomaly an accident could result. Same is true for panniers. Singling out the single wheel trailer as the cause and implying danger vs a 2 wheel trailer seems a bit much IMHO.
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It's related to why fifth-wheel travel trailers handle so much better than a trailer on a trailer hitch that's way behind the pulling vehicle's rear axle. I've pulled a 2-wheel trailer that had the hitch at the left end of the bike's rear axle, and I couldn't even feel that it was there. It did not affect the handling of the bike.
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I'd like to know more about how misloading a one-wheeled trailer, e.g., the BOB was the cause of a fall. How do you misload it in the first place? There are lots of reasons to fall while descending with a trailer, wind being chief among them, not to mention road conditions and other conditions of the bike itself, e.g., loose headset, hubs etc.
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I have used my Burley Nomad for about 1500 miles and never had it tip over. It is very convenient to use and features easy access to everything inside. Also, it stands on its own without falling over. I like that it is 2-wheeled.
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I'd like to know more about how misloading a one-wheeled trailer, e.g., the BOB was the cause of a fall. How do you misload it in the first place? There are lots of reasons to fall while descending with a trailer, wind being chief among them, not to mention road conditions and other conditions of the bike itself, e.g., loose headset, hubs etc.
I had a crash back in 2004, while on an early training ride with the Bob. The bike was a MTB, dual suspension. I lost control of the front steering while traveling downhill at about 30-35 mph. The Bob was loaded with two 25-pound barbells, laid front-to-back. I believe the trailer tongue weight placed enough force on the rear of the bike to lift the front end off the road, causing the steering loss. Bob recommends not exceeding 25 mph. Bike geometry may have been a factor as well as my position (sitting back instead of leaning forward), but that's added speculation. I've done the TA since and a number of other short tours with the Bob, using a non-suspended touring bike (Atlantis). No Problems. I recently added a front pannier rack to redistribute weight more to the front as well as routine item access convenience (clothing, food, tools, etc.). Works well. Hope this helps.
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Please be very careful if you decide on a one wheel Bob. If they are not loaded correctly they can cause your bike to completely lose control at the most inopportune time, downhill.
On our last TA tour we met an Aussie gal that had that very thing happen to her on a downhill. She was unconscious for two hours down in a drainage ditch until someone found her. She had to fly home to convalesce for two months before she could continue her tour. She was East to West and the accident happened the first week or so of her trip.
I am not sure how you could mis-load a BOB trailer. I have a BOB trailer, although I don't use it on the road anymore. My experience, which others will differ on, is that the trailers have a tendency to bounce. Once the trailer is in bounce mode, it is hellish until things settle down. Less I rekindle old flames, yes I had the BOB tire at its proper pressure. Maybe BOBs are not any more bounce prone than anything else, but are not particularly good at dampening out a bounce. Fast downhills on any loaded bike are foolish.
So for on road touring, I prefer panniers, but for off road touring, trailers (including BOB trailers) are the only way to go.
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The BOB's trailer's side-to-side pivot is way behind the bike's rear wheel. That will always be trouble at high speeds. You cannot get away from it. I was on the T@H tandem forum for many years though when my wife and I rode our tandem a lot, and there were many, many members who did a lot of touring with two-wheel Burley trailers who had had them up over 50 and 60mph on descents, and never had trouble with them, because all the pivoting takes place right near the bike's rear axle. The BOB design is kind of necessary for off-roading, but carries a heavy penalty in this regard when you get on the road and get much speed.
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The 'pivot issue', as far as going side to side.... will only happen if one can't hold a line. Meaning if you wander all over the place, of course it could happen. Place the weak emphasis on the rider's lack of skills verses the Bob Trailer.
And the one gal above that had a crash going downhill and going fast too.... I'd be curious to see how much she weighed in relation to the loaded trailer. If she was light, say 120 lbs, and the trailer loaded up was 45/50lbs, kinda bad potential with the trailer driving the rider.
My setup is that the trailer is less than 20% of the riders weight. I bomb/fly down desents and never had an issue. But I do flydown straight too.
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Another reason to go with a Burley Nomad 2 wheeled trailer. I've gone downhill fully loaded at 45 mph with no instability. It's also much easier to pack and access your stuff than the Bob.
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My preference is a two wheel trailer... and it really does get down to personal preference. I've used a Radical Designs Cyclone trailer (available from www.biketrailershop.com; trailer is made in Holland) on 5 tours over the past 2 years including last summer's 3,600 miler from MT to Maine, and it has performed well.
My experience is that two wheelers are, in fact, more stable and don't "steer" the bike. Also, a single wheel setup puts a significant load on the rear dropout/triangle (since the load is distributed between there and the single wheel). A properly load-balanced two wheeler has a tongue weight that can be measured in ounces, and the rider often forgets it is there (excepting going uphill, of course).
One disadvantage of a two wheel trailer is that, on narrow roads (or off-road) or roads with a limited shoulder (like Highway 2 in Montana and ND), the trailer can get dangerously close to approaching traffic. This is particularly true if the shoulder is narrow and there are rumble strips or other obstructions. A single wheeler (like a BOB) tucks in nicely behind the rider. Still, this is the only advantage I've seen.
As to specific trailers, the Radical Designs Cyclone has a waterproof bottom (which the Burley Nomad doesn't have) and with the rain cover in place, is virtually water tight on the inside. Not so the Nomad. The Cyclone also is lighter (albeit smaller) and has a simpler mounting mechanism. It also features two wheel positions- one when connected to the bike and another when used in airports/etc. like a large, wheeled piece of luggage. It is, however, more costly than the Nomad.
I've had to make some adjustments to the wheels/axles on the Cyclone to reduce side to side motion due to excess play, and the frame in my older Series II trailer is coming loose at the point where the trailer arm connects to the frame. I am, in fact, now in the process of replacing that frame with the more sturdy, redesigned Series III frame/hitch.
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i did 1500miles on the southern tier, it was my first tour and i went with a bob trailer, after a week i had the weight in the trailer down to about 28 lbs. i got a big apple tire and had no flats, water proof bag was great,had a greenfield kickstand, you have to be carefull when you park, so the bike and trailer does not jack knife. able to bungee extra gear on top of bag when needed. no trouble on down hills, 30mph plus, I took the extra time to load the trailer evenly, at times forgot trailer was there, great on the flats the trailer drafts behind you, slow on the up hills.i pulled it with a surly LHT, overall i had no problems, Big plus i did not relize until i was chased by quit a few dogs, some not so nice, was that they went for the trailer and not the bike.
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I used a Burley Nomad for my first 3000 mile tour. I like the fact that it breaks down for shipping or baggage without tools. It tracks perfectly and I never had a problem going downhill. The low tongue weight means tires last longer and you can ride a somewhat lighter bike. No, it is not waterproof, so I put everything in large ziplock bags. I stayed in motels a few times and it was no problem rolling it down inside hallways. The only hassle was narrow roads with rumble strips. The Nomad was the right choice for me.
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This is all helpful to us.
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Also, a single wheel setup puts a significant load on the rear dropout/triangle (since the load is distributed between there and the single wheel). A properly load-balanced two wheeler has a tongue weight that can be measured in ounces, and the rider often forgets it is there (excepting going uphill, of course).
Those statements make no sense.
A bicycle is designed to bear load at the dropouts/fork ends. Whether it is just a rider, or panniers, or a trailer, adding load to the bicycle at the fork ends is the best place to do so.
And tongue weight: There is a reason why 60% of the mass should be forward of the axle in any trailer. If tongue weight of a loaded bicycle trailer is as low as you imply, the trailer will porpoise and cause oscillation and sway. With a trailer such as the BOB, it is impossible to screw up the F/R distribution. With a Nomad, one would have to use conscious effort to mis-pack the trailer.
Having owned both the BOB and the Nomad, as well as a bunch of other trailers, I find that they are truly six of one and a half-dozen of the other. There are engineering tradeoffs in either design and nothing but individual experience and preference can inform a given individual as to which trailer is superior for that person's riding style and needs.
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Bar ends help...trust me.But jeez take easy on the speed,especially on downhills!
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The women who crashed in the ditch unconscious for two hours was probably 130 pounds. On her second attempt she put loaded front panniers on and that seemed to correct the problem. Bike geometry in relation to the weght is critical.
One if the delights of touring with our Nomads is using the extra rack for luggage as a table top for preparing foods Ususally we can find abandoned coraplast signs ready to be
to be repurposed into a table for for food prep and cooking.
James2u
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I have over 10,000 miles on my Burley Nomad two wheel trailer and never any control or tipping issues and never once concerned myself with weight distribution.
James
That's my choice for everything form a multi-week tour to a quick trip to the local grocery. It's worked very well for both.