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Messages - Bowdrie

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1
Gear Talk / Lower Gearing on Road Bike is presently Problems w
« on: September 21, 2006, 10:13:09 pm »
     Thanks for the replies concerning possible cable problems.  I have checked over the cables and they seem ok (not damaged in any way).  
     I did some adjusting and playing with the cable adjustment and thought I was able to get some of the slipping and jumping around the rear gears corrected.  It seems however to continue jumping around when in the next to lowest rear gear from all chain rings, and also in the 34t low gear when in the smallest chain ring (low) in front.  
     I took it for a spin today and except for the continuing problems above it seemed ok until I was about 15 mile out.  At that point I was also unable to shift onto the large chain ring (high) in front. So I hauled it back to the dealer.
     After examination he found that the cranks were starting to come loose again.  When they moved to the right it also moved the derailleur.  I did not feel or notice any movement while riding.  He felt that since he had personally tightened it after it came off the first time that there was a problem in the bottom bracket.  The factory equipped crank set and bottom bracket is a Sugino Direct Drive 2 piece integrated with exterior cartridge bearings.  A call was made to Specialized.  
     They did not say what the problem was but apparently they have had similar problems because they immediately gave me an upgrade to a FSA Gossamer complete crankset/bottom bracket.  It remains to be seen if this will correct the shifting problem.
     When the parts are received and installed I am half afraid to do any serious testing (go slow is the word) as I shutter to think of it coming off again without warning while I am moving full bore down one of the hills we have around here.
     In any case, in so much as I understand they are a relatively new item, I am wondering if anyone else has had any problems with outer bearing crank arms coming loose ???
     ALSO & ATTENTION WAGACES:  If you have the same bike, I would recommend that you pay attention to any loose play left or right in your crank arms.
 



2
Gear Talk / Lower Gearing on Road Bike is presently Problems w
« on: September 18, 2006, 01:40:33 am »
wagaces ...  In reply to your question -
     You were probably told that because of the Carbon Fork and Carbon Seatstays.  
     I have installed a Trek Interchange System Backrack.  The bike has threaded attachment points just behind the seat on the seatstay, and also at the very bottom of the seatstays below the point where the chainstay and rear wheel attachment are located.  These threaded attachment points are intended for rear rack attachment and I have loaded it on several occasions (not particularly heavy but with full trunk and drop down panniers) and have had no trouble with the rear rack.  
     As for the front, if I ever get the bike to that point, and have a need for a front rack, I will probably need to look into some sort of clamp attachment.  There is nothing on my 2007 Elite Model.  The 2006 Model had low rider fittings stock from the factory, but that model is no longer available.  I had noted that there were a few changes between the 2006 and 2007 Model.  That is one of the things the Mfr changed.  They also dropped the third water bottle attachments and downgraded the 105 drive train to Tiagra.
Bowdrie.


3
Gear Talk / Lower Gearing on Road Bike is presently Problems w
« on: September 13, 2006, 11:44:30 am »
   I addressed this topic on June 18 and received very helpful direction.  I was looking for a lighter weight road bike and lower gearing.  After visiting numerous shops and riding varied makes and models and considering the solutions I received here, I settled on the Specialized Sequoia Elite and finally found a dealer that I was comfortable with and who would work with me on the customization in the gearing.
   The first problem was that the 2006 model of which I was familiar and had tested was no longer available (end of year stock gone from Mfr stock), and my only option was to order a 2007 Model.  When it arrived I found that Specialized had downgraded the Shimano 105 components to Shimano Tiagra, along with several other much less important and very minor changes, some good, some not.  I accepted this because I was changing a portion of these components anyway.  
   I took possession of the bike with the following modifications based on the suggestions I received here, and dealer recommendations &
1. Cassette:  SRAM PG-950 9-speed 12-26t stock, was changed to a SRAM PG990 9-speed 11-34t.
2. Rear Derailleur:  Shimano Tiagra stock, was changed to a Shimano Devore XT Mountain.  
3. Chain:  Shimano HG73, 9-speed stock, was changed to a Shimano HG93 HyproGlide, an upgrade according to the Dealer.
4.  Chainrings:  50x39x30T is stock.  I opted to try these for a while with the rear mountain gearing before proceeding to the next step of changing the smaller 30T to a 26 or 24T, and I find that I am fine, at least without a load of gear, with the 30T, so I left that alone for now.  
5.  Chain Watcher:  The bike comes with a chain watcher installed stock, not the one I would have put on, but I left that alone.
6.  Front Derailleur:  Shimano Tiagra, 31.8mm clamp, bottom pull is stock, and I left that alone.
7.  Brake Levers/Shift Levers: Shimano Tiagra, 9 Speed STI are stock, and no changes were made here except I had a Shimano DuraAce Shift Selector Indicator Tube installed in the rear cable, a nice addition which indicates at a glance what gear you are in.
   The first several short rides involved a couple of return trips for minor adjustment and tuning of the gearing.  This was not unexpected, although I noticed that the bike did not seem to want to stay in tune  mostly, in the rear the chain seemed to want to jump from one gear to next and back and forth, and shifting seemed to jump two to three gears on one shift.  Minor turning by the dealer would correct it, but 15-20 miles later it would be back.  
   Then one day, about ten miles out into a ride I was climbing a slight hill and the left pedal and crank arm fell off still clipped to my foot.  Luckily I was not moving fast or going downhill, and it only caused me to fall to the right into a grassy embankment.  One skinned knee later I am thinking this does not say much for Specialized quality control.  But, the dealer said it was his fault for not checking every nut and bolt on the bike before delivering it.  Whatever the case, apparently and unknown to me, a dust cover and the nut that holds the crank arm on came loose and was lost during the ride.  Under pressure or a climb, off it came.  This situation initially had nothing to do with the gearing problem except that apparently when I laid over onto the embankment, I bent the derailleur hanger which really did a number on the tuning. Dealer said the hanger is designed to bend first so that the frame is not damaged.  In any case he was able to re-true the hanger, and re-tune the derailleur.  The bike ran great.
   I am now only about 35 miles onto the last re-tuning and it is acting up again.  The chain does not want to stay in one gear in the rear, jumping first up a gear, then down a gear or two.  This occurs intermittently.  Shifting sometimes takes me 2 or 3 gears up or down in a shift.  I also find it sometimes (not always) difficult to shift from the middle chainring to the large chainring in front, with it wanting to stay in the middle.  The problems occur often enough to ruin a pleasurable ride.    
   This bike is a dream-come-true to ride when it is in tune and I love it, but it does not stay in tune for more than 25-30 miles, and thus is turning into more of a real pain.  I realize that initially the cables on a new bike will stretch and need re-tuned, but not that quickly or frequently.  
   I thought that perhaps the chain was some kind of problem, or it was incompatible with a different manufactures part, but the dealer assures me it is a better chain than the stock chain.  I do not find fault with the dealers ability to tune the bike because when I leave the shop it runs fine  for a while.  Any ideas or assistance would be greatly appreciated.  
Bowdrie.    



4
Gear Talk / GEARING CONCERNS
« on: July 09, 2006, 06:34:42 pm »
     Well, I hope you have better luck with your LBS than I.  Most in my area seem clueless in dealing with lower gearing.  Or, more likely, they just want to sell a new bike as is without the shop time.  I have 6 in my area and it appears only one seems to want to work with me.
     You mentioned that your Burley Hudson has a 52/42/30 and a 9 speed cluster in the back, but you dont say what the large cog is in the rear.  The MFR lists your bike as stock equipped with 48/36/26 chain rings and an 11-32 cassette.   That combination should give you a low gear of about 21.87 gear inches.  That is only three clicks up from my lowest gear on my heavier mountain bike, and should do very well for you for a lighter road bike.  However, you must have purchased your bike used, or something was changed somewhere along the way.  If that is the case, there is no telling what else was also changed.  
     Since you have a 9 speed set up you can go all the way to a 34 tooth low gear cluster in the back.  As per the prior discussion I referenced, you can probably change the inner chain ring from a 30 to a 24, 26, or 28 tooth ring.  Depending on what is on the bike now, you will probably need to change the rear derailleur to a long cage mountain derailleur. You will also need a new chain and want to use a chain watcher.
     It is all very well laid out in the other discussion.  My problem is getting an LBS that is willing to do it to a new bike.
     You dont say how new your bike is but, if possible, you might do well to get the original equipment from wherever you bought it.  That would solve your problem.  
       



5
Gear Talk / GEARING CONCERNS
« on: July 08, 2006, 10:11:48 pm »
Hondo:
I have the same problem.  It can be corrected.  There is a post in Gear Talk dated 6-27-06 under title "Lower Gearing On Road Bike".  The discussion is quite lengthy and may be of help to you.  Suggest you read it over.  I am looking to purchase, but you have your bike so your options probably depend on if your bike is 9 speed or 10 speed cog in back. I am presently looking at both in a new bike but most of my area shops have not been real cooperative toward changing parts.  I will go back on that thread when I decide what I am going to do.
Bowdrie.  


6
Gear Talk / Lower Gearing on Road Bike
« on: June 25, 2006, 06:54:11 pm »
Thanks RussellSeaton for all the help and information.  I plan to do a little more bike shopping at some point when I can work it into my schedule next week.  I will let you know how I make out.  


7
Gear Talk / Lower Gearing on Road Bike
« on: June 23, 2006, 09:06:09 pm »
   With Respect to Perhaps we should be looking at a tourer &  Most of the touring bikes would provide the lower gearing but with that also comes a heavier bike.  Great for loaded travel, but for the most part at least for now, my load, besides myself which is already to much, may only consist of light rain/wind jacket, first aid kit, water bottles and perhaps my lunch.  I want to increase my riding distance and enjoyment without pushing a 30 lb MTB with 26 inch knobs, so I would opt for lighter weight.
   Re the Burley Hudson &  I took a look at their web page.  I particularly liked the Burley Vagabond.  Their closest dealer is about 100 miles from me.  I did request a weight from the company.  Didnt get it until today.  59 cm (what they quoted) is 26 lbs on the Hudson and 27 lbs on the Vagabond.  A little far and a little heavy (but it looks like a great touring bike for possible later use.  I would have to ride it and will keep it in the back of my mind.  Thanks.
   George:  I also looked at the recommendation of the Ritchey and the Co-Motion.  Not sure I would use a foldaway.  I note that the Ritchey seems to come stock with double chainrings and 11-23 or 12-25.  On the changes made by your local dealer, what exactly did you have changed and specifically changed to what? Thanks for the info.



8
Gear Talk / Lower Gearing on Road Bike
« on: June 23, 2006, 08:03:10 pm »
RussellSeaton
   Thank you for your detailed responses to my inquiry.  You seem quite knowledgeable on the subject.  I would like to have contacted you directly but no e-mail is listed.
   It would be nice if the bike shops in my area were as willing to work with a customer as apparently they are in your area.  Around here, the bike price is as it sits, and nothing is swapped or added for free.  Except for adjustment and tuning of the stock bike, no work or screw turning is done without a labor charge.  
   I would like to recap my understanding of your suggestions and perhaps have you clarify a few points.  First, I probably need to give further description of  the three bikes available in my area that I am considering.

1.  GIANT OCR1 - 10 speed Shimano 105 group and 12-25 Cassette / FSA Gossamer Mega Exo 30/34/50T.
   (I am not sure I really want to buy a Giant but the bike really feels good and handles well so I guess the Geometry is right for me.  The shop is a small two man shop, easy to get along with, but I am not sure they really want to do a lot of parts swapping.)

2.  TREK PILOT 2.1  9 Speed Shimano 105/Sram PG950 12-26 Cassette/ Bontrager Race 52/42/30 Crank   ---OR---    PILOT 2.1  s.p.a.  which is a 10 speed Shimano STI shifter/ Shimano Ultegra Front & Rear/ Shimano 105 12-25 10 speed Cassette/ Bontrager Race 52/39/30.
   (Larger shop with a very nice service plan from which I have previously purchased an MTB.  They may be a little more willing to swap things around.)

3.  SPECIALIZED SEQUOIA ELITE  9 speed Shimano105 group/ Shimano HG50 12-25t Cassette/ Sugino Direct Drive 2 piece Crank set with 50/39/30t.  
   (Also a smaller shop with mixed experiences when visiting.  I have also had very little experience with Specialized bikes other than their good reputation.  I have not yet talked to them about a parts swap.)  

As I understand them, your recommendations are (do I have them correct?) &
   A.  I should buy and install a chainwather which will solve any problems with STI shifting to a 24 tooth front chainring.  I like the looks of the N Gear Jump Stop.
   B.  Rear Cassette  For 10 speed Shimano STI Shifter, I will be limited to 12-27 in Shimano and for one or two teeth it is probably not worth changing the rear.   For a 9 Speed Shimano STI Shifter I can probably go up to 32 or 34.
   C.  Front Inside Chainring  For any of the above bikes, the inside chain ring can be changed to a 24 tooth ring.  You provided several sources for availability.
   D.  I will need to change the Rear Derailleur to a Deore LX or XT.

Points for clarification &
   1.   You do not mention the Front Derailleur.  With these changes, am I ok with the stock front Derailleur or is there also a change necessary in the front.  You did mention in one of your points that with STI shifters the front derailleur will/may not work well.  I believe this was in reference to changing to a whole mountain bike crankset.  I am a little confused here.  

   2.  You also do not mention the chain.  Because they advertise a 12-27 on an OCR1 and the one in the shop had a 12-25, one of the things I did when first considering a Giant was to call their customer service.  When I spoke to them about lower gearing they also recommended the mountain derailleur but this was in reference to changing the rear cassette, and they recommended first checking with the crank mfr.  So, I then called Full Speed Ahead FSA.  They told me their cranks were compatible with a mountain derailleur and gearing, but they recommended staying away from Shimano chains due to their lack of sideways movement.  They suggested a Wipperman or Connex Stainless Steel chain (???).  Will I also need to consider changing the chain?  

   3.  I would like to end up with the smoothest and most trouble free shifting possible.  In the Shimano long cage derailleur I have three levels to choose from.  Can I expect better performance and less problems from the higher grade Shimano Devore LX?

   4.  On your point Number 9 you say, You can go with 9 speed on a road bike.  But the STI levers seem to be disappearing in the higher priced ranges.   I would not advise this option for a road bike due to the disappearance of 9 speed STI levers.  I am confused here because most of the Bikes (including 2 of the 3 models I am considering) seem to be 9 speed.  Could you please clarify this for me?  Without consideration of other plus factors and based on wanting lower gearing alone, would I not be better off with a 9 speed, considering the better selection of rear cassettes, etc?  

   5.  One other question dealing with the TREK 2.1 and 2.1 s.p.a.  Do you (or anyone else) have any experience with the Suspension Performance Advantage (s.p.a.) and the Buzz Kill handlebar offered by Trek in this model?  I note the Derailleur are also upgraded to Ultegra, but I would be changing them anyway.  So, I am wondering if the $200 increase in price is worth it.

Thanks again for any help offered on this matter.



9
Gear Talk / Lower Gearing on Road Bike
« on: June 18, 2006, 10:23:49 am »
   I have returned to cycling for the great exercise and enjoyment it offers, after about 15 years of being away from riding.  I purchased a Trek 6500 MTB for mixed trail/bikepath/and road riding.  I am finding that I would like a much lighter road bike for the road rides, but love the gearing and more upright riding position available on the MTB.  I may also add that I am interested in pleasure riding rather than speed, and may desire to add some touring after I develop my skills and conditioning again.    
   Finding a light weight bike with lower gearing seems to be a problem.   I would prefer not to purchase a Fitness or Hybrid flat bar style bike as I believe they are really a poor trade off for an all road bike.  I would also prefer to purchase from one of the local bike shops in my area for service and cost reasons vs. a custom built bike.
   I have considered the middle and higher end Trek Pilot, Giant OCR, and Specialized Sequoia series bikes, primarily because of their compact design/upright riding position and lighter weight.  They do not however provide me with a gear ratio of less that 29- 31.  I find myself often using gearing in the 20 range on my MTB for some of the hills on the local roads in my area. Thus the lower gearing becomes my problem.  
   I have discussed changing rear cassette or front crank with our local shops.  Most are reluctant to do this, citing possible incompatibility with derailleur and/or chain.  Also the Giant OCR1, a really nice and seemingly well fitting bike to me  even nicer in its carbon variations, is a ten speed triple and they do not seem to find compatible gearing lower than a 30 front 27 rear combo (25 to 27 is not really worth the change) and they seem to be unsure of the results of going with a Mountain Derailleur on a road bike.  Experimenting, successful or not, would be at my expense before the bike is even purchased.  Not wanting to buy parts that do not work well or smoothly, I am somewhat reluctant to go with other than a stock bike.  
   After reading some of the posts here, my desire for lower gearing does not seem to be unusual.  I am not sure just how much the lighter bike will affect the need for a lower gearing on our hills as the short test rides that I am allowed to do around the parking lot or down the road dont really allow that type of testing.
   Is my conceived need of lower gearing unwarranted when using the lighter bike, and/or, are there any suggestions anyone can offer, or other bikes I should consider?
        Thanks for your thoughts and consideration.



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