Messages

1531

Gear Talk / Re: Anyone been touring on the Salsa Vaya yet?

« on: December 06, 2010, 02:49:10 pm »

At the very great risk of confusing this perfectly good argument with facts, let me add some data.

I looked up the weight (mass) of Sun CR-18 rims, as I know these are available in both sizes.  26”, 440 g.  700C, 484 g.  Add to these the mass of some Schwalbe Marathon tires (available in many sizes, and popular with tourists):  559x40 (26x1.50”), 600 g; 622x32, 580 g; 622x40, 720.  I think the 700Cx40 is much wider than many road tourists, use, but it’s there if you want to get picky about equivalent widths.  Making a few simplifying assumptions (like massless hubs and spokes), I calculated the energy, in Joules, required to accelerate these components to 10 mph:  26”, 10.39 J; 622x32, 10.63 J; 622x40, 12.03 J.  So to accelerate these wheels to 10 mph, you’d need 2.3% more energy for the 32 width wheels, and 15.7% more for the 40 wheels, over the 26” wheels.

Of course, you’ll need to accelerate yourself, the bike, and the luggage if you don’t want to watch the wheels rolling off down the road.  If everything else weighs 250 pounds, that’s 1133 J.  Total energy to accelerate you and your loaded bike is remarkably similar across the wheel differences: 0.02% more for the 32 wheels, and 1.4% more for the 40 wheels, again compared to the 26” wheels.

I’d call that 0.02% negligible.

Pat

1532

Cycling Events / Re: Los Angeles to New York June to August 2011

« on: December 05, 2010, 10:22:36 pm »

Not to mention, if you ride from LA to SF, you'll be back-tracking south to get to the Grand Canyon.

Although I don't have a clue how you'd get out of LA cycling east!

1533

Gear Talk / Re: Anyone been touring on the Salsa Vaya yet?

« on: December 05, 2010, 10:17:13 pm »

Checking on the weight, the LHT is about 2 pounds heavier than the Vaya, assuming the Vaya weight includes the fork.  (Otherwise, it's a wash.)  That would indicate to me a 2 pound difference, maximum, if the equipment is similar.  My guess is that the rest of the components are heavier (for loads or price savings) than your Waterford.  Most loaded touring bikes seem to weigh about the same; 26 +/- 2 pounds without racks or fenders.  You either have to sacrifice durability or load-carrying capacity, or pay handsomely, to cut 4 pounds off the weight.

Most of that 2 pound difference is static weight.  The important weight is weight that rotates, so look at the crank and the wheels.  Cranks have a small diameter, so I would be surprised if resulting moment of inertia was that big.  I guess I could see where the moment of inertia from the wheels would equate to the tankiness of the LHT.  Lots of people love their LHTs.

Sorry if I wasn't clear.  I was comparing the weight of the frame and forks, so all of that 2 pound weight difference is what you're calling "static weight."

I think you're getting carried away with the distinction between static and rotating weight, though.  Some 20 pounds of the LHT is not frame and fork.  I'd be very surprised if the wheels averaged 10 pounds each.  The point I was trying to make, apparently with little success, is that all the other components (other than frame and fork) can be selected for weight, weight bearing and longevity, or cost.  The OP (and his Mrs.) will have to select two out of three.

re: Raybag, I don't know where the OP's family plans to tour, or their strength, so I can't state definitively whether a compact double with 11x36 cassette will be sufficient.  If they're going to ride in mountains, I doubt it.  I'd plan on replacing that double with a triple, with a 24 (prefered) or 26 (passable) small crank.

1534

General Discussion / Re: folding bike

« on: December 05, 2010, 09:55:41 pm »

Is there some reason you need to have a folding bike?  You can likely either take the bike with you to the start (or from the finish), boxing it at the airport or train station, or have a bike shop near you ship it to an LBS near the start if you feel mechanically challenged.

Other than the BFs, an S&S coupled bike (sandsmachine.com) is a standard answer.  Somebody else came out with a folding bike last year, but I can't remember who it was and I don't think it was intended for touring.

1535

Gear Talk / Re: Long Two-Person Trip Tent

« on: December 04, 2010, 03:44:04 pm »

FWIW, I always add one to the number of people who will use a tent before looking for the tent.  One person, two man tent.  Two people, three man tent.  When we took the girls camping, the four of us used a six man tent, and there wasn't much extra room.

Kind of like cars, if you think about it.  Six people in a six person sedan works well if four are short and slim, and the other two are children just out of car seats.

1536

General Discussion / Re: Surly Cross Check Touring Bike?

« on: December 03, 2010, 04:05:57 pm »

I was talking about getting a bike up to speed, and that has to be moment of inertia.  This is the whole flywheel effect. 

So I think it comes down to what you define as zippy or tanky.

We are talking about touring, right?  Where you have 20-50 pounds of luggage on the bike?  If that's the context, I don't see how a few ounces are going to be noticed when you start riding.  Zippy doing a crit start out of a gas station driveway isn't going to matter much compared to a 3-6 mile, 6% climb.

(And for the engineers/mathematicians, how does the rotating weight [~r^2] compare to the rotational energy and angular velocity [~w^2] for a smaller wheel?  Without real numbers, my gut instinct is it'll be a wash!)

1537

Gear Talk / Re: Brooks B17 - Standard or Aged?

« on: December 01, 2010, 09:37:32 pm »

I've been shopping around for a saddle that has a cut-out to supposedly relieve that discomfort.

Some of the Brooks saddles I've looked at have that cut-out. For those without the cut-out, is it just that the leather eventually "deforms" to fit your body during the break-in period? ... I'm confused and don't want to drop $100+ on a saddle that doesn't agree with me.

To start from the end, as somebody noted up-thread, buy the Brooks from wallbike.com and if it doesn't work, you can get your money back.  Note he also re-sells those returns at a discount, but if there's a model you're interested in on sale, buy it pronto, because they don't last.

The leather will stretch slightly so the saddle cradles your sit-bones.  It will continue to stretch IME, and you'll need to tighten it slightly on occasion.

The two things that make a Brooks less than comfortable for me are stretching and getting the tilt slightly wrong.  I've converted all but one of my bikes to a two-bolt seatpost so I can do fine adjustments on the tilt.

Two other things to note (see rec.bicycle.* archives for details).  Reputable bike shop owners and mechanics have stated that you don't need a cut-out if your saddle fits you and is adjusted correctly.  Also, there are some butts that seem not to fit a Brooks saddle.  (That last is hard for me to believe, since mine fits quite well!)

1538

Gear Talk / Re: Tires ?

« on: December 01, 2010, 09:27:52 pm »

Some people seem to like the Vittoria Randonneurs.  Not me.  I had some wire break and pop out of the sidewall on tour, ruining the tire and my day (when it took four tries to find what was flatting my tire!).  The replacement, another Randonneur, lasted 2,000 miles.  Its replacement, a Specialized Armadillo, has lasted that long and looks like it has another 1,000-2,000 miles left on it.

1539

Gear Talk / Re: Is it worth changing tires?

« on: December 01, 2010, 09:25:04 pm »

Comparing an LHT with touring tires to your lightweight road bike?  Like comparing a pickup truck to a sports car, maybe!

If you're intent on turning the LHT into a sporty ride, it may be worth changing tires to something light (and flat-prone).  It won't feel like the Lemon, but it's a step in that direction.

1540

General Discussion / Re: Tec talk: loose casette

« on: November 30, 2010, 03:04:55 pm »

You might ask a bike shop how much they'd charge to fix it -- I'd guess free to $5, unless they're one that has a $25 minimum labor charge.  (Even then, this is so easy they might do it for free.)

If it happens during a longish tour the odds of them either doing it for free or handing you the tools to do it yourself go way up.  At least that has been my experience.

That's another reason to go E-W -- it's cheaper in small towns in the west, IME.    Changed out brake pads in Clark Fork, ID, for $3 and a quarter of a pack of Fig Newtons, and trued a rear wheel AND relubed Frog pedals in Missoula for $8.

1541

Gear Talk / Re: Anyone been touring on the Salsa Vaya yet?

« on: November 30, 2010, 02:59:38 pm »

No personal experience here, but a few observations.  I assume you're going to switch out the (compact) double crank for a triple.  It really looks like Salsa's spec'd the Vaya as a cross bike, rather than a tourer.

I'd ordinarily dis the Vaya for 32-spoke wheels instead of 36, but given your wife's height, and making a favorable assumption about her weight, that may not matter.

It looks like the Vaya has eyelets for a rear rack, which is good.  There's nothing similar in the front mid-fork, which isn't so good, and I don't know how easy it would be to add a front rack to this disk-equipped fork.

Checking on the weight, the LHT is about 2 pounds heavier than the Vaya, assuming the Vaya weight includes the fork.  (Otherwise, it's a wash.)  That would indicate to me a 2 pound difference, maximum, if the equipment is similar.  My guess is that the rest of the components are heavier (for loads or price savings) than your Waterford.  Most loaded touring bikes seem to weigh about the same; 26 +/- 2 pounds without racks or fenders.  You either have to sacrifice durability or load-carrying capacity, or pay handsomely, to cut 4 pounds off the weight.

1542

General Discussion / Re: Tec talk: loose casette

« on: November 30, 2010, 12:07:58 pm »

Agree that the cassette lock ring is probably loose.  The tool to fix it costs $5-10, plus a big adjustable wrench.  You might ask a bike shop how much they'd charge to fix it -- I'd guess free to $5, unless they're one that has a $25 minimum labor charge.  (Even then, this is so easy they might do it for free.)

Two years in a row I had this come loose, both times in the middle of the same "event" century.  Second time I was within a half mile of a SAG stop with a mechanic.  The third time I figured it out, found some loose alignment bolts in the cassette, and tightened them.  Those alignment bolts supposedly aren't necessary, but the problem hasn't recurred (yet?).

1543

Routes / Re: Total altitude from SF to Yorktown

« on: November 29, 2010, 02:53:57 pm »

If you can plug in the GPS routes to a topographic mapping program (like DeLorme's Topo), you can add it up and get an estimate.  However, there are problems with many such programs zig-zagging between contour lines, when the road is actually smoother.  Sometimes the elevation gain is off by 2.5X, sometimes it's pretty close.

I did this sort of thing with our route (TransAm to Great Parks to Northern Tier), and came up with an estimate of 100,000 feet of climbing between Yorktown, VA and Berea, KY.  I don't know how much it really was -- I suspect 100,000 is too high, but my legs think it was way over 40,000 feet!

I'll have to dig up the numbers to get you east of Canon City.

1544

Gear Talk / Re: Mitts or Gloves for extreme cold

« on: November 16, 2010, 03:42:49 pm »

I've got two pairs of lobsters.  I use the ones from Nashbar down to 20-25 F, and the PIs are great down to 14F (the coldest it's gotten here in the last five years).  The PI lobsters are actually too hot over 25F for me!

1545

Gear Talk / Re: Brooks B17 - Standard or Aged?

« on: November 13, 2010, 10:49:09 pm »

As a B-17 (standard) user who's never tried the pre-aged variety, I don't see the need for the pre-aged.  I've never been uncomfortable on a new B-17, and all four have become even more comfortable within 500 miles.

That leaves the texture.  I prefer to be able to shift slightly on occasion, and don't want no steenkin saddle texture grabbing my shorts as I wiggle.

They'll age fast enough, you don't need to hurry a Brooks!