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Messages - John Nettles

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My guess is that it is the Harry Morgan campground that is a few miles southeast of Orvando along the river.  The article states it was along the river so it could not be in town.

Routes / Re: Bicycle Camper killed by grizzly bear in Ovando, MT
« on: July 06, 2021, 04:56:25 pm »
So sad to hear.  That camp site is one of my favorite.

Routes / Re: Great Divide Paper Map Set Update?
« on: July 05, 2021, 11:11:29 am »
Hey Mark,

Welcome to the ACA Forums. While I will let ACA post the official response, historically, they only update and reprint (not just reprint) a map set only when 1) an update appears to be needed, i.e. the old route has become too congested with cars, lots of "addendum" have been added, etc. AND 2) they are running low on maps.  They do not automatically update a map each printing cycle if no update is needed; they just reprint the maps.

It takes quite a while to update and reprint a map believe it or not.  For instance, they are updating parts of BR66 now that will be available I "think" later this year or next year.  To update and print a route, ACA has to basically create a "new" route for any effected map panels and then possibly reroute adjoining panels.  Then they have to redraw the effected panels and the accompanying text which may radically change the overall (the entire folded printed map sheet) map layout to keep it all a printable size.  This is in addition to having to research the new panel's services.  Once all that is done, they have to do the actual proofing and printing process. 

All that said, it would be nice if the website had a "map status" page which showed when the next update, printing, etc. is being done. However, to be fair, such status should be highly suspect since lots of issues may pop up that could change the timing.

Tailwinds, John

General Discussion / Re: Happy USA Independence Day weekend to all.
« on: July 02, 2021, 09:45:21 am »

Routes / Re: Yellowstone and grand Tetons route
« on: July 01, 2021, 08:41:32 pm »
If you are NOT on a time crunch and you want the full tour, here is a route.

West Yellowstone > Ashton ID > Jackson (via the Yellowstone Bypass) > Jackson Lake Lodge > Grant Village > Madison Campground (Old Faithful and lots of geyers) > Castle Canyon > Do a 1 day out/back to Fishing Bridge back to Castle Canyon (great wildlife) > north to Tower Jct > Cooke City > Red Lodge (includes the stunning Beartooth Pass @ 11k' > Belfry > Cody > Thermopolis > Riverton (pretty scenic road) > Jeffrey City where you finally reconnect to the TA.

This would include numerous scenic sections along with a few major climbs but if you want it all, here it is. Obviously, it is much longer but hey, if you got the time, go for it.

Another option to consider later on is you like really nice scenery, ride from Saratoga, WY, to Centennial, WY then down to Woods Landing then to Cowdrey, CO, where you reconnect to the TA.  Note that this has a very scenic 10,900' pass but low traffic and very scenic with adequate services along the way.  Highly recommend as it is much more scenic than the TA and it has more services.  The downside is one major climb and it is a bit longer.

Tailwinds, John

Routes / Re: Yellowstone and grand Tetons route
« on: July 01, 2021, 11:14:23 am »
There are so few roads in Yellowstone and Tetons.  What are you trying to accomplish/see, i.e. scenery, hiking, just get through, etc.

The "traditional" routing is to follow the ACA TA to Teton Park Rd. just south of Jackson Lake Lodge, and take Teton Park Rd. to Jenny Lake (great campground, seriously one of the best) where a bike path take you all the way to Jackson. 

After doing the Jackson thing (it can be expensive place to stay overnight so consider a WarmShowers host), either backtrack the Jackson Lake Lodge turn off or take US-191 (bike path to Moose, WY) to the intersection with US-26 where you rejoin the ACA route.

A third alternative, if you are willing to ride on the interstate (legal), is from Jackson, head south on US-191 to Rock Springs then head east on Interstate 80 to Rawlins.  This gives you a lot more services compared to the TA route and the traffic on I-80 is really not that bad (less than a lot of large city roads) and it has a full shoulder.  There are some sections of the old highway that parallel it but check out Google maps to ensure you don't ride to a dead end.

Going back to Yellowstone, if you want to see more of Yellowstone, you might consider riding to Grant Village, then do a ride over to Canyon Village then back the next day.  This section has a lot of wildlife.

Tailwinds, John

General Discussion / Re: Best Tips for Cooking on the Road
« on: June 29, 2021, 08:13:52 am »
Patience is your friend when it comes to BBQ, because all the smoke should penetrate your meat and only then you will feel what is like to eat something amazingly good!

Surely you jest!  I smoke meat about once a week so am fairly familiar with what it takes to do decent BBQ.  My question is how the heck do you smoke meat while on a bike tour?!? How do you carry the smoker, charcoal, smoking wood, etc.?  Even if you are using a portable Hasty-Bake, you are talking some serious weight. 

Unless you are absurdly serious about BBQ, why bother?  Other than that, I totally agree with slow and low.  My favorite steak is a 1.5" Ribeye smoked for for 75 minutes @ 225* then reverse seared.  Light pink all the way with a crisp exterior.  You also have 12-hour pulled pork; a 90-minute smoked cherry pork tenderloin, or a spatch-cocked chicken.

Routes / Re: Sierra Cascades Mixie Alternative
« on: June 27, 2021, 09:08:11 pm »
Welcome to the ACA Forums and thank you for offing an alternative for people to consider.  However, promoting for-profit endeavors on this site that you have a personal interest in is discouraged.  Maybe I am wrong but it appears you (or someone else) wants $25/year for "access" to the alternative route. 

While I totally understand what it takes to develop a route (I have thousands that I have in various stages of "development" but without the website) and feel it is reasonable to be compensated, making your post (your first!) a commercial post (assuming you are the "author" of the TruLassen routes) is a bit tacky.  It makes it appears you are more interested in making money than helping others.  Most of the regulars on here freely give route suggestions to encourage cycle touring.

That said, I wish you success in your website and hope you become a regular contributor here at the ACA forums.

Tailwinds, John

General Discussion / Re: In need of a few hints for NT route and food
« on: June 15, 2021, 07:42:49 pm »
Cold food, and scented stuff like toiletries also need to be kept bear safe.  So cold food is a pretty imperfect solution if it is a solution at all in my opinion. 
I guess I didn't make myself clear enough.  I meant if no restaurants are available (which there are in Glacier NP), then eat (not store) the cold food for lunch/dinner but not keep overnight. Yes, I agree that all scented stuff should be kept bear safe but I guess I would just keep the pannier outside the tent or as you said, ask a car neighbor to keep it.  But since you would realistically only be in Glacier for 2-3 nights probably, that is not that big of a deal.  I personally would just eat out all meals while in Glacier.

General Discussion / Re: In need of a few hints for NT route and food
« on: June 15, 2021, 08:55:56 am »
I personally would leave the bear canister and eat in restaurants or cold food until you get out of Glacier Nat'l Park.  After that, you will not need a bear canister so save the weight/bulk and leave at home.

Also, be sure to check that the Blackfeet Nation area is open to non-Blackfeet.  I had heard at one point it was closed and there was a longish detour which may alter your overnight stays.

Have a great trip!  John

GPS & Digital Data Discussion / Re: Is gpx info working on my Bolt?
« on: June 13, 2021, 05:32:57 pm »
When I have purchased the route GPS data files, i.e. the route GPS data for the PPP route, it has always included the main track in each direction, any alternative tracks in each direction, and all of the service waypoints.  These are individual files and can be very easily edited on Garmin's BaseCamp.  They used to include route files but no longer.

As far as the limits, maybe that is user inputted data.  Of course there has to be some limit (12 trillion miles???) based on memory but my older Garmin 64s says it there are limits to its memory: .  After re-reading it, it does say it allows 200 tracks but doesn't say how long each can be.  It does say track logs have a 10k point limit after which point I "think" it auto-archives some older points or auto-adjusts some somehow.  However, since I am not the most technological guy around and I don't use tracks that much, I am not overly familiar with them, especially on non-Garmin non-handheld units.

That is why I still carry maps  ;)

Tailwinds, John

GPS & Digital Data Discussion / Re: Is gpx info working on my Bolt?
« on: June 13, 2021, 04:06:42 pm »
I actually had this happen to me early on when I started using a GPS.  I didn't load it right (thought I did), drove 2 days to the start, and then fired up and nothing.  Ever since, I always verify it is loaded and working. 

While I am unfamiliar with Wahoo, I would think it is very similar to the other brands.  For service waypoints, i.e. a campground, once the data is supposedly loaded onto the device, go outside and connect to the satellites.  Then do a "route" from where you are to the service waypoint, i.e. a hotel. If the GPS tries to direct you there, it is probably loaded fine otherwise the GPS would not be able to see it. 

To see if the track has loaded, just zoom the map out then over to Washington then down to where the route is.  The track should show on the device.  At least this is how I verify on my Garmin. 
Also, be sure to verify the limits on your particular device, i.e. 2000 waypoints, 100k track points, 200 routes of up to 50 waypoints each, etc.  If you exceed whatever your limit is, your device may give you an error message or something. 

Tailwinds, John

Assuming the info on Google Maps is correct, then US-70 is indeed closed through at least June 12th.  Not ideal by any means.

The older ACA data did have routes (when they were free); but the new ones do not.  I have no idea why they quit providing route waypoints other than I guess it is much easier to create a track since the waypoints would need to be custom named.

Steve, I have over 2200 routes (think of a smashed car windshield and each of the little cracks are a route that interconnects with another route) and over 50k waypoints that I have created over the past 12 years or so of creating routes.  If the conversion is VERY SIMPLE to do, I would consider it, especially once your app is completed.  I just don't want to have to re-learn a new system.  That said, I will take a look at Locus to see if I like it. 

Tailwinds, John


I am not a technical guy by any means.  However, I have been doing routes (not tracks) for 10+ years easily on my Garmin devices.  By routes, I mean what you say above.  I create up to 50 waypoints then connect the route as outlined in Garmin's BaseCamp and its predecessor MapSource. 

For me, the huge advantage of a route is that it automatically has turn by turn (TBT) alerts, at least on my various Garmin devices.  Another advantage of routes over TBT is that if I miss a turn in a city, it will automatically redirect me.  It will beep every possible turn so I don't ride too far out of my way.  Granted, on a bike, this is really not needed but I also use routes for various time when I am doing a route by car.

A tracks (breadcrumb) does not do TBT or reroute, again at least on my Garmin devices when used with BaseCamp.  I have heard it can but it sounds a bit complicated to deal with converting so it can give do TBT and as I said above, I am not the most technical guy around so I just stick with what I prefer. 

I know I am in the minority but until they make it EASY to create a track in BaseCamp which automatically has TBT, I will stick with routes.

Your project sounds promising but it would need to be able to also be used entirely when hundreds of miles away from cell towers, think northern Alaska, NWT, YT, etc. for me to use it.

Tailwinds, John

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