Touring bikes...

[DaveB]

The Salsa bike will make a fine touring bike for heavy loaded touring.  And lightly loaded touring too.  Pretty much identical to the Surly Long Haul Trucker, Trek 520, REI Novara Randonnee.  All are 9 speed I think.  Triple crankset.  Bar end shifters.  Steel frame and fork.  All will work fine.

And, these all have such similar geometry and dimensions that choosing one over the other depends more on availability, cost, dealer convenience and color preference that any minor "fitting" differences and those can be dialed out with minor stem an saddle changes.

[Pat Lamb]

Today I have been reading a lot about Salsa Vaya 3. That would be a good touring bike, right? As I would need a 54, I would get 700 tires. The disc brakes don´t seem to bad.

The Salsa bike will make a fine touring bike for heavy loaded touring.  And lightly loaded touring too.  Pretty much identical to the Surly Long Haul Trucker, Trek 520, REI Novara Randonnee.  All are 9 speed I think.  Triple crankset.  Bar end shifters.  Steel frame and fork.  All will work fine.

To Cat, don't get caught up in "analysis paralysis."  It's a lot of fun to obsess over the tiny details between choices; however, this being March, pick one, reserve the bike, and forget about it.  Move on to something else -- is the visibility of yellow panniers worth the blaring color over a nice green or brown?

One nit on Russ' response, the Randonnee is a 10 speed for the last couple years.

And FWIW, the Randonnee is the second least expensive choice with a stock front crank smaller than 30 teeth, listing at $1200.  (At least a couple weeks ago.)  The Jamis Aurora is least expensive at $950, though you might want a bigger rear cluster, followed by the LHT around $1350 and the 520 at $1500.  I personally spend a lot of time in my bottom two gears when I'm riding loaded, and the Salsa Vaya is geared a bit high, at least for me -- plus it's more expensive than the four models above. 

Uh-oh, did I just feed the obsession?

[dkoloko]

the Salsa Vaya is geared a bit high, at least for me -- plus it's more expensive than the four models above. 

I advise a novice who is going to do fully loaded touring to have lowest possible gear; if you need it, you have it; if you don't, just limit your shifting to your higher gears. For the Vaya, for you, I recommend swapping the 30 tooth chainwheel for a 24.

[Cat]

Uh-oh, did I just feed the obsession?

Haha You sure did!
But... I think I will deal with the pannier color once in Portland... so don´t worry - I won´t start a pannier-color-thread here

[RussSeaton]

One nit on Russ' response, the Randonnee is a 10 speed for the last couple years.

And FWIW, the Randonnee is the second least expensive choice with a stock front crank smaller than 30 teeth, listing at $1200.  (At least a couple weeks ago.)  The Jamis Aurora is least expensive at $950, though you might want a bigger rear cluster, followed by the LHT around $1350 and the 520 at $1500.  I personally spend a lot of time in my bottom two gears when I'm riding loaded, and the Salsa Vaya is geared a bit high, at least for me -- plus it's more expensive than the four models above. 

OK on the 10 speed for the REI bike.  A friend bought one last year and I overhauled it for him.  I forgot what its cassette and bar end shifters were.  I have a 10 speed cassette and STI shifters on my touring bike.  I find they work just fine.  9 or 10 speed, both are durable enough.

I'd agree you should go with the cheapest of the bikes mentioned.  All are identical enough to not make a difference.  All can have their gearing changed to be low or lower.  The triple cranksets will take 22 teeth if a four arm mountain bike crank using 64mm bcd.  Or will take 24 teeth if a road triple with 74mm bcd inner ring.  And all will take a 32 or 34 tooth rear cassette.  Hopefully anyone buying any of these bikes will DEMAND a 22 or 24 tooth ring in front and a 32 or 34 rear cog in back.  Before they leave the shop.

[Pat Lamb]

I'd agree you should go with the cheapest of the bikes mentioned.  All are identical enough to not make a difference.  All can have their gearing changed to be low or lower.  The triple cranksets will take 22 teeth if a four arm mountain bike crank using 64mm bcd.  Or will take 24 teeth if a road triple with 74mm bcd inner ring.  And all will take a 32 or 34 tooth rear cassette.  Hopefully anyone buying any of these bikes will DEMAND a 22 or 24 tooth ring in front and a 32 or 34 rear cog in back.  Before they leave the shop.

I think that's a reasonable hope.  However, I can imagine Cat getting into Portland in the middle of busy bike shop season, and she may do well to get any new bike fit to her.  The dealer should cut her a deal to change the crank, but will he have the parts and the shop time to make a change?  I ran into a shop (in Anacortes) taking the bike and scheduling disassembly and shipping 10 days later.  Paying for a hotel for 2-3 extra nights while a part gets shipped in could get expensive, not to mention the "My riding time is slipping away!" factor.  That's why I tossed out all the 50/40/30 posers and concentrated on lower stock gearing.

[RussSeaton]

I think that's a reasonable hope.  However, I can imagine Cat getting into Portland in the middle of busy bike shop season, and she may do well to get any new bike fit to her.  The dealer should cut her a deal to change the crank, but will he have the parts and the shop time to make a change?

I don't think it would be too difficult to arrange with the bike shop to have the bike in the right size, AND demand ahead of time that they change the rear cassette, inner chainring.  A new inner chainring of 22 teeth for 64mm bcd or 24 teeth for 74mm bcd is a standard item in every bike shop in the country.  You only need the inner ring, not a new crankset.  And a 9 or 10 speed cassette of 11-32 or 11-34 is also a standard item.  Every bike shop in the country will have these replacement parts on the shelf.  No need to order them.  Changing a cassette, chain, inner chainring is a 30 minute job at most.  So demanding these things be done when you pick up the bike should not be too much.  If so, then buy the bike from another shop.  Portland is a big town with lots of bike shops.

[paddleboy17]

Every time I have bought a stock bike, they have swapped parts for the difference in value between the parts.  The bike shop eats the labor as that is part of the cost of selling the bike.  I think they budget and hour of shop time to get the bike ready, and if they have to build the bike up, there is no shop labor to eat as they have to put a crank and cluster on it anyways.

If the shop you pick wants to start gouging you for shop labor, as it has been said, buy somewhere else.

[dkoloko]

Every time I have bought a stock bike, they have swapped parts for the difference in value between the parts. 

Good to try, but I have been told shop would only allow 50 percent of value of part swapped toward cost of new part. Yours to decide if that is acceptable.

[Cat]

Well we will see. I have fallen for the 2013 Salsa Vaya 3. After being in contact with bike stores - it looks like this bike was all sold out from Salsa in November 2012 Who could have believed that?? In a consuming society like the US? Not me.

[RussSeaton]

Well we will see. I have fallen for the 2013 Salsa Vaya 3. After being in contact with bike stores - it looks like this bike was all sold out from Salsa in November 2012.

The Salsa Vaya 3 has a retail price of $1400.  Very similar in price to the other bikes mentioned.  Surly LHT, Trek 520, REI Novara Randonee.  Its pretty much identical to the other bikes.  Steel frame/fork, lower cost but acceptable Shimano parts.  For some odd reason it has 32 spoke wheels.  Its generally advisable to have 36 spokes for touring wheels.  But any of the bikes mentioned in this thread will work as well as the Salsa bike.  So if its sold out, get one of the others.  No harm.

[Cat]

It is nearly a month since this woman posted her initial question, and she has yet to decide even the type of bike she should  buy. I suggested she concentrate on that....

I can´t resist cutting a quote from dkoloko.  I almost became a farmer this month too, so I have struggeld with quite a few decisions during these past months... 
Anyways - you have been very helpful - I thought I let you know what bike it is going to be.

Ta da!  http://salsacycles.com/bikes/2012_vaya

The brakes will be upgraded, the gearing might be a triple and the tires won´t be that fat.

Thanks!

[adventurepdx]

Anyways - you have been very helpful - I thought I let you know what bike it is going to be.
Ta da!  http://salsacycles.com/bikes/2012_vaya
The brakes will be upgraded, the gearing might be a triple and the tires won´t be that fat.
Thanks!

Hey Cat! Intrepid tourers Russ and Laura of Path Less Pedaled currently have Salsa Vayas. A very thorough write-up here:
http://pathlesspedaled.com/2012/12/salsa-vaya-1000-mile-review-or-our-thoughts-on-salsa-vaya-vs-surly-lht/

And there are a few Salsa dealers in Portland, too.
http://salsacycles.com/dealers/results/region/OR

[dkoloko]

It is nearly a month since this woman posted her initial question, and she has yet to decide even the type of bike she should  buy. I suggested she concentrate on that....

I can´t resist cutting a quote from dkoloko.  I almost became a farmer this month too, so I have struggeld with quite a few decisions during these past months... 
Anyways - you have been very helpful - I thought I let you know what bike it is going to be.

Ta da!  http://salsacycles.com/bikes/2012_vaya

The brakes will be upgraded, the gearing might be a triple and the tires won´t be that fat.

Thanks!

No criticism intended for time it took you to choose a bike. I questioned side-track to ultra lightweight bicycle travel niche. I thought as a novice you had enough to think about in choosing a bike to buy. I stated even type of bike, because earlier you had not settled on a touring bike, considering also a cross bike. Best wishes on your choice, and may you have a very enjoyable and memorable tour.

[Cat]

[/quote]
No criticism intended for time it took you to choose a bike. I questioned side-track to ultra lightweight bicycle travel niche. I thought as a novice you had enough to think about in choosing a bike to buy. I stated even type of bike, because earlier you had not settled on a touring bike, considering also a cross bike. Best wishes on your choice, and may you have a very enjoyable and memorable tour.
[/quote]

Oh, I know    Thank you, I am very much looking forward to it!