Author Topic: Tubeless?  (Read 10205 times)

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Offline Huli

Re: Tubeless?
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2015, 11:33:02 am »
Basically, too much weight at too low of a pressure.  Higher pressure will blow the tire off the rim.
That doesn't make sense to me, but maybe I am missing something.  How much weight and how much pressure are you thinking of using with what sized tire?  I don't see wanting or needing to run enough pressure to "blow the tire off the rim".  At the lower pressure end of the scale I don't see going low enough for burping to be a problem.

Just trying to understand...

Tubeless psi hurts my brain,  general rule of thumb max psi is as follows:

23mm - 116psi
28mm - 100psi
32mm - 45psi

So you see the pressure goes down as the tire gets wider.  I don't have specs on 40mm (29x1.5).  Stan's said max would be 40psi.  At those low pressures, rider plus gear would make the tires roll poorly.

My Hutchinson tires arerated  to 85 with a tube, 34mm width keeps me at 45 tubeless.

Hope that helps... Lol.

I can try and copy/paste the email from Stan's if you want more.

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Offline Venchka

Re: Tubeless?
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2015, 09:18:24 am »
One tire, set up tubeless, ridden long and hard on gravel.

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There is no doubt in my mind that there is exponentially more hand wringing about tire choice for gravel racing than all other disciplines of cycling combined. Tire choice will make or break your ride. Kansas gravel is generally composed of limestone and flint. Flint can be sharper than steel and will make short work of thin tires.
I opted to run Clement’s brand new X’Plor MSO 700x40mm tire. Gravel is an unpredictable and ever-changing surface; I find it hard to conceive of any tire that would allow one to “rail turns” on a gravel road. The X’Plor’s round shape, and consistently spaced, low-profile tread make for a tire that rolls fast and is extremely predictable. I ran 42psi in the front and 45psi in the rear.
I also opted to run them tubeless on a pair of Rolf Ralos 29er wheels. I’m sure Clement does not recommend this (it’s my job to try these things and occasionally make poor decisions so you don’t have to). They seated with a floor pump and held air with three scoops of NoTubes sealant. X’Plor MSO has a supple, 120tpi casing, my pair weigh approximately 430 grams, and carried me across miles of flint-strewn roads without any issues. I’m sold.
The Rolf Ralos wheelset rolls on White Industries hubs laced to what are essentially NoTubes Arch rims drilled for Rolf’s paired spokes. On my mountain bike I found this wheelset to flex more than I like, but for long gravel rides I appreciated the compliance.

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I used this tire in the 2013 Dirty Kanza 200, and it performed flawlessly. I set it up tubeless, and ran it at 37 pounds of pressure, as a front tire. I used Caffelatex sealant, and successfully finished with zero flats in the Flint Hills of Kansas. Great control in the gravel. Good comfort with the wide 40mm tire size. This tire is not listed as a tubeless tire, so I would guess that it completely voids your warranty and you are on your own if you run tubeless like I did.

The list of happy users goes on and on.
Very little of what is written on the sidewalls of a bicycle tire is true. 700X40? Right. Minimum & maximum inflation pressure? No doubt dictated by lawyers.
I recently installed a pair of Clement X'PLOR MSO 700C X 40 60 TPI tires on my bike. The casings measure 38+ mm. The sidewalls say that the minimum inflation pressure is 55 pounds. Numerous users, all in the 210-235 pound range, claimed excellent performance at pressures from 40  to 50 pounds, with & without tubes. I weigh 150 pounds and ride with 30 psi front / 35 psi rear with tubes. Loaded for touring, I expect to be at, or below, 40 front / 45 rear. Either with tubes + Orange Seal or tubeless + Orange Seal.

Wayne
Wayne
Deep in the darkest heart of the East Texas Rain Forest.
Quote
You've come far pilgrim...Feels like far...Were it worth the trouble?...Huh? What trouble?

Offline Huli

Re: Tubeless?
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2015, 02:15:07 pm »
I am glad you have actually tried it.  I also totally agree with the lawyer thing.  I am running tubeless specific tires that say pressure range is 13-82 psi.  The rims say max of 45.  The only answer to the variation: lawyers.

I love the tubeless setup!  Please post any new info as it comes!

Almost forgot, I am going to try a short tubeless tour this fall.  BRP maybe.

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Offline Venchka

Tube/Tubeless for skinny road tires & tubes 101
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2015, 05:12:24 pm »
In my current quest for all things related to tubeless tires on a road bike on and off pavement, I ran across this test of sealants used in tubes.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Things_that_Roll/Tires/Sealant_Test_-_Part_1_4147.html

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Things_that_Roll/Tires/Sealant_Test_-_Part_2_4155.html

I hope this benefits someone.

Wayne
Wayne
Deep in the darkest heart of the East Texas Rain Forest.
Quote
You've come far pilgrim...Feels like far...Were it worth the trouble?...Huh? What trouble?

Offline Iowagriz

Re: Tubeless?
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2015, 05:53:34 pm »
Not sure if this helps or is relevant to road/touring with tubeless.  But when I did my first tubeless setup on my MTB.  I was using Specialized Roval rims and Specialized tires.  They seated fairly easily initially and I did the tubeless shake/dance to spread the Stans throughout the tire.  I then thought to myself....."might as well pump them up towards 50psi to really set the bead on the rim".  At about 45psi, the tire blew off the rim.  Mind you, this was in my kitchen with hardwood floors.  My wife was not happy to see Stans all over the floor, cabinets, ceiling  ;D

Suffice it to say that I don't pump them up close to 40psi anymore.  I knew that I was going to run them closer to 25psi for racing.

These are 2.0" tires.  I get burping when they are below 20psi; I usually run near 25 for racing.  When doing bikepacking, I might run closer to 30, but again, these are for firmer roads and not much singletrack.

Offline Venchka

Re: Tubeless?
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2015, 11:43:32 pm »
Specialized offers 700x33 & 700x38 2BLISS tubeless ready tires. WTB also has the Nano 700x40 TCS tubeless tire.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.
Wayne
Deep in the darkest heart of the East Texas Rain Forest.
Quote
You've come far pilgrim...Feels like far...Were it worth the trouble?...Huh? What trouble?

Offline Nicolai Michel

Re: Tube/Tubeless for skinny road tires & tubes 101
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2015, 11:31:26 am »
Makes me want to switch to Orange Seal or Bontrager TLR sealant for my tubeless mountain bike!

In my current quest for all things related to tubeless tires on a road bike on and off pavement, I ran across this test of sealants used in tubes.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Things_that_Roll/Tires/Sealant_Test_-_Part_1_4147.html

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Things_that_Roll/Tires/Sealant_Test_-_Part_2_4155.html

I hope this benefits someone.

Wayne

Offline Venchka

Re: Tubeless?
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2015, 04:26:34 pm »
Yep. I'm partial to Orange Seal. A local company.

Wayne
Wayne
Deep in the darkest heart of the East Texas Rain Forest.
Quote
You've come far pilgrim...Feels like far...Were it worth the trouble?...Huh? What trouble?