Waterproof Panniers vs Non-Waterproof + Dry Bags...?

[tbessie]

Hi all...

The couple of times I've toured before, I've used a pair of Ortlieb Back Roller Classic panniers, and it worked fine.  I liked the "One big waterproof pocket" idea, so I didn't have to worry much about water getting inside, or of making sure individual items were protected.

I bought a Bruce Gordon touring bike last summer, and am going to use it for the first time quite soon.  When I bought the bike, Bruce asked me if I wanted to buy some of the panniers he had commissioned that fit perfectly on his racks.  I wanted to give him business, and liked the idea of panniers he designed, so I bought them too (front and rear).  Also, when I was buying them, he made an argument for not needing waterproof panniers (he thought it was just fine to put dry sacks in the panniers for anything that needed to be protected - Bruce is famous for being rather opinionated :-) ).

In any case, I have his panniers, and I'd like to use them, so I went out and bought a bunch of different-sized dry bags from REI.  I'm sure this system will work fine, but I *am* a bit concerned that it won't be as easy or simple as when I used the Ortliebs.

This is probably a much-debated topic around here, so I hope it's not wrong for me to ask - what do you think of waterproof panniers vs non-waterproof plus internal waterproof bags?  Is there a great advantage to one over the other? Several advantages either way?  The panniers I bought don't have any external pockets, so I don't get that advantage with them.

I'd also thought of getting some waterproof pannier covers, but some experienced tourers I spoke with told me that when they've tried that, if they went through a significant downpour, water would either eventually seep onto/into the bags anyway, or would get in when they removed the covers, so I took their advice and didn't go that route.

- Tim

[John Nelson]

I would find non-waterproof panniers with dry bags inside quite annoying. Furthermore, the non-waterproof panniers are going to absorb water in the rain, making them even more annoying. I would relegate them to fair-weather commuting.

[Pat Lamb]

Tim, since you've toured with one and bought all the parts for the other, perhaps you could try BG's panniers plus dry bags.  Can you take a short tour of a week or two, preferably where and when you expect some rain, and see how it works for you?

Like John, I'm very happy with waterproof panniers (Ortliebs in my case as well), both for touring and all-weather commuting.

I wonder how much of a divide there is between people who live and ride where it rains frequently and those who don't, on which system they prefer?  There has been a similar divide, also based on expected rain frequency, between down and artificial fiber sleeping bag users -- although that may be tending more towards historical choice and personal preference with the development of water-resistant down, and as the artificial fibers get better.

[dkoloko]

I had water repellant panniers with pannier covers for several years. Switched to waterproof bags; will not go back. The pannier covers help with water repellant bags, but are a nuisance taking on and off, sometimes several times a day when rain comes, ceases, then comes again. If you insist on water repellant bags I would do as I eventually did before I sold the water repellant bags. Get a sturdy plastic bag that just fills the space for each pannier with preferably a little extra height so you can fold the top over. I got what I was looking for by asking in bike shops that I stopped by on tour. Much better than a number of small waterproof bags.

[SlowAndSlower]

Once a long time ago I bought racks and panniers from Bruce, I believe Beckman was making them at the time. I used zip loc bags and bought some Performance pannier covers and toured in Europe early spring and did not have any issue with stuff getting wet.

Now I have Ortlieb Packer plus and I still put everything in zip loc and dry bags because I want my stuff to be dry. The bags become little compression sacks and organizers.

BTW I did like the way the BG panniers packed and latched on to the BG racks. Rock solid.

[tbessie]

Once a long time ago I bought racks and panniers from Bruce, I believe Beckman was making them at the time. I used zip loc bags and bought some Performance pannier covers and toured in Europe early spring and did not have any issue with stuff getting wet.

Now I have Ortlieb Packer plus and I still put everything in zip loc and dry bags because I want my stuff to be dry. The bags become little compression sacks and organizers.

BTW I did like the way the BG panniers packed and latched on to the BG racks. Rock solid.

Thanks for the info!  I'm going to use the BG panniers for my upcoming weekend trip, and then MAYBE use them on my longer trip, or buy some Ortliebs for it... not sure yet.  REI is having a big sale on the 15th and I was told the Ortliebs will be on sale.

PS Here's what the panniers I got from Bruce look like - your old ones too?

[tsteven4]

I have always just used garbage bags inside various non-waterproof panniers.  I usually double bag and independently twist the tops and just fold them in.  This method has always worked for me, even through a 21 day streak of rain every day when we looked like drowned rats and were refused hotel accommodations in France.  The stuff in the outside pockets is either in zip locks or it isn't important to keep it dry.

The problems I have had are
1) shoes, which lead to the "Soggy Sneaker Blues"
2) glasses, which don't have windshield wipers
3) flooding campgrounds which make it hard to stay dry inside the tent.  once we woke up dry but the tent felt like a waterbed!  one develops a very fine eye for spotting the high spot for the tent.  I would NOT put any plastic under the tent, even with careful folding/trimming water always seems to find it's way between the plastic and the tent floor.
4) a worn out rainfly, which was solved with a sheet of plastic from an Italian hardware store.
5) poor brake performance, which leads to tired hands in the mountains (at best).

I think you will love your BG, we love ours.  Rock Solid.

Good Luck, and I hope it doesn't rain.

[dkoloko]

I have always just used garbage bags inside various non-waterproof panniers. 

This is commonly suggested. I tried garbage bags; also compactor bags. The solution I posted is far easier to use, neater, and tougher. I also see no reason for belt and suspenders, waterproof stuff sacks inside waterproof panniers. I bag or pouch like items, but the bags or pouches maybe net, or otherwise not waterproof.

[SlowAndSlower]

I have always just used garbage bags inside various non-waterproof panniers. 

This is commonly suggested. I tried garbage bags; also compactor bags. The solution I posted is far easier to use, neater, and tougher. I also see no reason for belt and suspenders, waterproof stuff sacks inside waterproof panniers. I bag or pouch like items, but the bags or pouches maybe net, or otherwise not waterproof.

So its okay, from your perspective, to bag your stuff but you are against the idea of using waterproof bags because?? Too practical??

[tsteven4]

So its okay, from your perspective, to bag your stuff but you are against the idea of using waterproof bags because?? Too practical??

I am not against waterproof bags, I have no experience with them.  However, from my perspective they aren't necessary and I won't be rushing out to replace my non-waterproof bags until they wear out, and even then the next set may not be waterproof.

[SlowAndSlower]

So its okay, from your perspective, to bag your stuff but you are against the idea of using waterproof bags because?? Too practical??

I am not against waterproof bags, I have no experience with them.  However, from my perspective they aren't necessary and I won't be rushing out to replace my non-waterproof bags until they wear out, and even then the next set may not be waterproof.

@tstevent4 Sorry but the target of my question was to dkoloko's responce to your post.

I agree it's not necessary or essential but my point is why not? Why avoid using them? As some one said "things happen." On my trip to Europe in the French Landes I encountered flooded road crossing and I had no choice but to ride across. My BG panniers literally floated across and I would have hated to think if I had dumped the bike.
I guess I'm just more risk adverse from backpacking solo for weeks at a time.

[indyfabz]

I'd also thought of getting some waterproof pannier covers, but some experienced tourers I spoke with told me that when they've tried that, if they went through a significant downpour, water would either eventually seep onto/into the bags anyway, or would get in when they removed the covers, so I took their advice and didn't go that route.

I have heard tales of such people, but to me they remain illusive as the Yeti. Toured about 11,000 miles with by Robert Beckman Designs (former partner of Bruce Gordon) non-waterproof panniers with rain covers. Never experienced those problems. My first tour with them was the Northern Tier route, where it is known to rain a bit. I am particularly mystified about water getting in when you remove the covers. When you remove the covers, the panniers are still closed, so I don't see how water would get in simply from the act of removing the covers.

[dkoloko]

I'd also thought of getting some waterproof pannier covers, but some experienced tourers I spoke with told me that when they've tried that, if they went through a significant downpour, water would either eventually seep onto/into the bags anyway, or would get in when they removed the covers, so I took their advice and didn't go that route.

I have heard tales of such people, but to me they remain illusive as the Yeti. Toured about 11,000 miles with by Robert Beckman Designs (former partner of Bruce Gordon) non-waterproof panniers with rain covers. Never experienced those problems.

"Seep into" is a questionable phrase. In my experience, water got in from the back, as the waterproof covers, made for the water repellent bags, only covered top, front, and bottom of panniers, to allow for rack panniers were attached. As I previously posted, helped, were worthwhile, but still necessitated some sort of waterproof bags inside panniers for full protection. A bonus for the covers is that if conditions were muddy or otherwise nasty, easier to wash the covers than clean the panniers.

 I always wondered if there was some combination of water repellent panniers and waterproof covers that completely kept out pouring rain. If so, interesting, but having switched to waterproof panniers, I will not go back. Putting on and taking off covers is still a nuisance.

[John Nelson]

Interesting discussion. I have waterproof panniers, and frankly I never even considered using non-waterproof panniers. It's interesting to hear that at least some people find them unnecessary. I have no experience with them, so I really don't know. All I do know is not a single drop of water has ever gotten in my panniers, even in all-day downpours, and I find that very comforting.

[staehpj1]

I have used a wide range of options including:

• waterproof
• non waterproof lined with a trash bag
• non waterproof with covers
• non waterproof with ziplock bags inside
• dry sacks strapped in the rack instead of panniers (I have only done this with very minimal loads)

They all worked well.  My personal preference is for waterproof if using panniers, but these days I have been going ultralight with no panniers most trips.

BTW, part of what I like about the waterproofs is that I prefer one big compartment and no pockets.

BTW, I have found inexpensive Nashbar or Performance waterproofs plenty adequate for my usage.