Author Topic: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker  (Read 32819 times)

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Offline RussSeaton

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2015, 12:18:08 am »
Looking at the Surly website, it appears your LHT frame takes normal 1 1/8" headsets.  It has a top and bottom cup that is pressed into the headtube.  These cups hold the bearings.  Fork goes up the center of the bearings.  Surly puts a Cane Creek 40 headset on the bikes they sell complete.  You can buy that and be pretty sure it will work.  Or another normal headset.  You can take the cups and frame to a bike shop and they can press the cups into the frame in about 1 minute.  Or you can buy your own headset press and press the cups in.  Or do it cheap and buy a long bolt or threaded rod.  12 inches or so.  Then use this bolt and washers and nuts to press the cups in yourself.  There isn't anything complicated about it.  I have a 2 foot threaded rod about 1 inch diameter.  Has a couple nuts on either end and four big washers about 2 inch diameter.  Works fine on the half dozen or so headset cups I have pressed in over the years.  Normally once you press in the cups, you never take the cups out again.

Offline fiveonomo

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2015, 06:58:01 am »
Thanks Russ, I really appreciate it.  I have been around bikes my whole life, but now turning 45 in a few days I would like to build one.  This bike will carry me on some tours and when I retire in 12 years I want to take a long extended tour and this will be the bike I plan to ride.  By building it I should understand how the whole thing works, so I really appreciate the help.
The cups (bearings) that get pressed in....Do they come with the Cane Creek Headset that I buy or are they separate? While we are on bearings/cups are the same type of cups/bearings pressed into the bottom bracket?  I found a bottom bracket that fits but I am guessing that has bearings pressed in to.
Thats a great idea about the threaded rod.  I see know reason why that would not work, maybe I will try that.     

Offline fiveonomo

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2015, 07:00:18 am »
I think I am going to pick up that Park Tools repair manual from my shop today, that has to be of some help.

Offline fiveonomo

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2015, 07:36:11 am »
I watched a video and it looks like the bearings/cups are part of the headset you buy.  So I am guessing If I buy a Cane Creek 40 (comes stock on this bike) I will have all the parts that I will need to install the headset.  Am I correct?

Offline DaveB

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2015, 09:36:09 am »
As Russ noted, the LHT takes a conventional press-in 1-1/8" threadless headset (not an "integrated" type) and the Cane Creek 40 would be an excellent choice.  So would a Chris King if cost is not a factor. Those headsets comes with all the needed parts but not the installation tools.  Since headset installation is usually a one-time thing for most riders, I recommend you have a bike shop do it.  The specialty tools (and skills) needed to press in the cups and seat the crown race can be home made or purchased but aren't worth it for the infrequent use. 

The shop could also cut the fork steerer to your required length after you determine what that is.  Initially, leave the steerer extra long and use spacers above and below the stem until you determine where you want your handlebars to be.  Even then, leave a bit of extra steerer length to allow a 10 mm or so spacer above the stem after the steerer is cut to allow later adjustment.  You can always cut it shorter but I've never discovered how to cut it longer.  :D

As to having the frame powder coated, unless you find the stock color unacceptable, be aware that Surly's are now factory powder coated so the finish is durable and not fragile as they were in the past. It also means your powder coater will have to remove the factory powder so be certain they are aware they are dealing with thin wall tubing and don't do irreparable harm by too aggressive blasting.  Not every powder coater knows how to handle bike frames properly.

Offline fiveonomo

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2015, 10:49:23 am »
Thanks Dave, solid advice and I really appreciate the help.  This sounds terrible but I just cannot do the color.  I figured since I was building the bike I would truly make it mine.  The powder coat company is very well known and has a great reputation.  They do bikes and when speaking to the guy it sounded like he knew exactly what I was talking about.  Im going to call him back, maybe this morning, and make sure he clearly understands.  Thanks again for the advice and knowledge.  I will keep this thread up to date on my progress.

Offline RonK

Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2015, 04:58:35 pm »
Park Tool offers a home mechanics headset press, but you will see that it is little more than the threaded rod with plate washers mentioned in previous posts. I have one and it works well.
Chris King headsets are great but you will also need the special CK pressing kit and a crown race installer.
The Cane Creek 40 is a good choice for a home build since it has a split crown race so the headset press is the only tool required.
Having recently purchased a Cane Creek 40 I think I can anticipate your next question. Which one? It is offered in 40 standard configurations. Upper and lower assemblies are also sold separately to add to the likely confusion.
However I believe configuration used in the LHT is the 40.EC34.
The type of bottom bracket will be determined by your choice of chainset. Square taper cartridge type bb's are the most commonly used on touring bikes, but modern chainsets may use a hollow axle  and external bearings. Both are easy to install but you will need the right tools for each one. It is worth consider the purchase of a home mechanics toolkit which would usually include standard bb tools and more.
Steerers are easily cut to size with a hacksaw using a pair of worm drive hose clamps as a cutting guide, but my tip would be to leave it uncut if possible. On a touring bike the rule of thumb is for handlebar height to be roughly the same as saddle height. You may need an angled stem to achieve this even with the steerer uncut.

I have acquired most of the components I need for my third bike build. It is satisfying and addictive.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2015, 05:12:21 pm by RonK »
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

Offline RussSeaton

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2015, 05:09:11 pm »
The bottom bracket is similar to the headset.  Except you thread in the bottom bracket cups instead of pressing the cups in the headtube.  Bearings just slip into the cups once installed.  Your Surly frame will have standard British/ISO threading on the bottom bracket.  The threading is different on both sides.  Here is what Park Tool says about the threading on your Surly frame.

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/#article-section-2
"Most modern bikes use an ISO thread standard for the bottom bracket. The left side thread is a right-hand direction thread, which tightens clockwise and removes counter-clockwise. This standard is also called English or BSC. The right side (drive side) thread is a left-hand thread, which tightens counter-clockwise and remove clockwise."

Tighten the cups by turning towards the rear wheel.  Loosen by turning towards the front wheel.

Any normal mountain or road crankets and bottom brackets will work in the frame.

Offline DaveB

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2015, 07:00:21 pm »
Your Surly frame will have standard British/ISO threading on the bottom bracket.  The threading is different on both sides.  Here is what Park Tool says about the threading on your Surly frame.

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/#article-section-2
"Most modern bikes use an ISO thread standard for the bottom bracket. The left side thread is a right-hand direction thread, which tightens clockwise and removes counter-clockwise. This standard is also called English or BSC. The right side (drive side) thread is a left-hand thread, which tightens counter-clockwise and remove clockwise."

Any normal mountain or road crankets and bottom brackets will work in the frame.
Mostly correct.  Yes the Surly will definitely have an English threaded bottom bracket which installs as the Park Tool web site describes.  However, there are a lot of non-"normal", non-English compatible bottom bracket and matching cranks out there these days.  There are several competing and mutually incompatible press-fit designs that take 30 mm spindles and won't fit the more common 24 mm Shimano Hollowtech II cranks or older square taper cartridges. 

So, be sure you a crank compatible with an English threaded square taper or English threaded external cup bottom bracket.   

Offline fiveonomo

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2015, 09:23:50 pm »
Thanks for the help guys!  RonK that was my next question as the web site is somewhat intimidating.  I picked up the Park Tools maintenance manual this evening, looks like an awesome book.  Im excited! 

Offline RussSeaton

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2015, 12:48:12 pm »
"Any normal mountain or road crankets and bottom brackets will work in the frame."

When I say normal I imply Shimano cranks and bottom brackets.  The dominant name in bike parts.  All Shimano bottom brackets and cranks use the external cups that thread into the bottom bracket threads.  The cups hold the bearings and the cranks go through the bearings.  Two piece crank with the non drive side tightening everything together.

No press fit cranks or bottom brackets will work with the threaded Surly frame.  Press fit requires the frame to have a space molded into the frame so you can press the bearings directly into the frame, no separate cups involved.  Generally only higher end road/race bikes use this system.  Not Surly.

As for square taper bottom brackets, those have not been made in almost 15 years.  I'm guessing Shimano still makes some for the cheapest parts they sell.  But they are almost rare now days.  If building a bike new, you won't even come across these cranks and bottom brackets.  You would have to search in the attic, inside the trunk, under the newspapers to even find a square taper bottom bracket and crankset.  Its about like talking about freewheels, 5,6, or 7 speed, if someone asked about building a rear wheel and what gearing to use on their bike.  Phil Wood still makes and sells hubs for freewheels.  Not sure who makes the freewheels.

Offline DaveB

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2015, 01:44:39 pm »
Everything you wrote is correct and I'm well aware of all of it except it's too simplified. 

Certainly Shimano is the dominant name and supplier of OEM and aftermarket bike parts and Hollowtech II (24 mm spindle) in various product lines is a de facto standard.   But they are not alone.  FSA is a very common supplier of OEM cranks as a cost savings measure and many of them use non-English bottom bracket designs.  Also, SRAM and many others also use 30 mm spindles and one of the many press-fit variations and none of these fit an English threaded shell.

Shimano has pretty much abandoned the touring triple road market, SRAM was never in it and Campy doesn't under stand touring bikes at all so finding a usefully geared crank is not nearly as easy as it once was.  The closest touring suitable road Shimano triple crank  you can now get is a 10-speed FC-5603 (105) or 9-speed FC-4503 (Tiagra) which retain 130/74 BDC drilling so you can use a granny down to 24T to replace the factory 30T.  These are both out of production so you have to find either one as NOS.

Shimano's "Trekking" cranks have suitable touring gearing and English compatible Hollowtech II bottom brackets but aren't distributed in the US and you have to get one from a European (mostly German) dealer. MTB cranks are still a possibility but are also moving to odd-ball bottom brackets and strange gearing choices.

Square taper may indeed be "obsolete" except Suguino still makes several high quality cranks using that bottom bracket type and some (e.g. XD600 and XD2 Triples) are particularly suited to touring bikes so you can't write them off as a non-issue. In fact, they may be the best choice currently available.

 

Offline RonK

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2015, 03:27:51 pm »
As for square taper bottom brackets, those have not been made in almost 15 years...

You would have to search in the attic, inside the trunk, under the newspapers to even find a square taper bottom bracket and crankset.
Err no,  square taper bb's are common, cheap, and widely available, and for those reasons remain the choice of cycle tourists.

And they are original equipment on the Long Haul Trucker.

Crankset
Andel RSC6, 26/36/48t. Square taper interface. Silver

Bottom Bracket
Shimano UN-55, Square taper interface. 68 x 118mm
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

Offline fiveonomo

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2015, 01:21:41 pm »
Hey guys, I was looking at the brakes for my Disc Trucker.  The spec sheet lists Avid BB7 G2's 160mm rotors.  I like these brakes a lot and will probably stay with them.  I think these are mountain brakes, am I correct?

indyfabz

  • Guest
Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2015, 03:49:24 pm »
The frames are built for 26" wheels through 54CM, 56CM starts the 700C wheels.

A point of clarification in case it matters to you: For the regular LHT, you can get the 26" version across the full range of sizes. In the Disc Trucker, you can get 26" version up to 58cm. Thus, if you can get a 56cm for either 700c or 26".
Yes but the OP is trying to AVOID 26" wheels.  His problem is that the 54 cm Disc Trucker only comes with 26" wheels and he wants 700c which start at 56 cm.
DOH! Sorry. Missed that crucial detail.