Author Topic: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker  (Read 32823 times)

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Offline fiveonomo

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2015, 06:04:18 pm »
Thanks Ron.

Offline fiveonomo

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2015, 06:36:46 pm »
I just remembered I had a brand new stem that I got when I bought a bike used from a guy.  It was one he had laying with the bike and threw it in.  I saw online that it fits the 1 1/8" fork tube (my bike) and can fit 1" with the shim.  It is a Profile Design ARIS, it has some numbers on it but I am not sure what they mean.  On the end that connects to my fork tube it reads  9- 10N.m and under that line E:100mm +25 degrees.  Then where it connects to the bars (funny symbol) 31.8, under that line: 5-6N.m, under that line:  H1203A.

Im sure those markings tell me what fork tube I should be using and what size handlebar I just don't know.  The stem has quite the lift but I would think that would be good as I am trying to achieve a more comfortable riding position.  You guys think this stem is usable?

Offline fiveonomo

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2015, 08:16:37 pm »
I did a little reading in the Park Tools manual and looked at the net.  The stem size and the bar size should match, a difference of 0.1 is acceptable but no other.  My stem is a 31.8 so I need the bars to be 31.8.  Sounds right.

Offline RonK

Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2015, 10:38:10 pm »
Yes, you will need a 31.8mm diameter handlebar to go with that stem.

The numbers refer to the tightening torque of the screws (in newton-metres), the length, angle, and bar clamping diameter. 

At 100mm it may be a bit long, although the angle will effectively shorten it.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 10:44:34 pm by RonK »
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Offline fiveonomo

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2015, 11:05:23 am »
Thanks Ron.  Since I already have it I think I will try it and then I can make the change if I need to.  It also has a sticker on the underside that gives you all of the torque settings.  As always, thanks for everyone's help and advice, Im definately learning.

Offline DaveB

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2015, 11:06:31 am »
I did a little reading in the Park Tools manual and looked at the net.  The stem size and the bar size should match, a difference of 0.1 is acceptable but no other.  My stem is a 31.8 so I need the bars to be 31.8.  Sounds right.
31.8 mm handlebar and stem clamp sizes are almost the norm these days so finding matching ones is very easy.  Be aware that you will see some handlebars and stems listed as 31.7 mm but these are identical to and interchangeable with "31.8 mm"  The difference is that the true diameter is 1-1/8" or 31.75 mm.  Most makers round the diameter up to 31.8 mm.  A few round down to 31.7 mm but I've always thought this was a bit of a scam to make you think you have to buy both their bars and stem together. 

Offline RussSeaton

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2015, 01:48:15 pm »
Do those bars serve a special purpose or are they just another set of bars?  I guess what I am asking is are they built specifically for a certain riding style?

They are handlebars for a bike.  Road style bike.  The purpose today is they are for the older, slower long distance rider.  Randonneur is a long distance riding style.  If you look at the historical (40s 50s) pictures of European bicycle racers, you will often see flared handlebars on their bikes.  And more upright riding positions with stems showing.  The tiny bike with the seat as high as possible and the bars as low as possible is a newer look.  In olden times the racers raced 100+ miles everyday for 8 months on less than smooth roads.  Sometimes dirt or gravel roads.  So having a comfortable bike was more important than a super aerodynamic bike.

Offline fiveonomo

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2015, 09:11:21 pm »
Thanks guys.  I like the Randonneur bars, will they work with the retroshifters brake caliper mounted levers?

Offline DaveB

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2015, 09:01:48 am »
Thanks guys.  I like the Randonneur bars, will they work with the retroshifters brake caliper lever mounted levers?
Yes, they have the same diameter at the brake lever mount area as other road bars. 

Offline CanvasAndSteel

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2015, 09:06:27 am »
After reading through all of this I have two recommendations for you. One would be to Google "LHT Build." That will give you umpteen thousand iterations of how different people built up their LHTs. The other would be to go the the Surly Bicycles group on Facebook. The members will be able to give you immediate and accurate advice (meaning you won't be told that square taper bottom brackets are no longer made or that they are, but just basic, inexpensive ones). By the way, you'll love your bike. I built up Surly Trolls for my wife and me.

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Offline CanvasAndSteel

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2015, 10:07:11 am »
An addendum to my recent post. This goes into good detail on why square taper and ISIS bottom brackets, that use larger bearings, are more durable than Hollowtech, etc that use smaller bearings. https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/skf-bottom-brackets-after-5-years/.

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Offline RussSeaton

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2015, 06:01:43 pm »
(meaning you won't be told that square taper bottom brackets are no longer made or that they are, but just basic, inexpensive ones).  I built up Surly Trolls for my wife and me.

I'll admit I was surprised Sugino still makes square taper cranks.  I have not heard of Sugino since the mid 1980s.  Did not even know they still existed.  As for the ones Surly uses on its complete bikes.  They are some Chinese company I have never heard of.  Shimano abandoned square tapers on its upper models in the late 1990s or so.  They may still make square taper cranks for the cheapest bikes they equip.  But not on the upper levels.  I have several Dura Ace square taper cranks.  And Campagnolo square taper cranks.  All over 15 years old.  Not sure I would recommend someone build up a bike using parts 15 or more years old.  Just like I would not recommend someone build up a bike using 7 or 8 speed parts.  The biking world has moved on.

Not sure how square taper bottom brackets can use larger bearings than Shimano Hollowtech.  Square taper bottom brackets go inside the bottom bracket shell on the frame.  Its a tube about 1.375" diameter.  Hollowtech shells are about 1.875" diameter.  About half inch larger because the Hollowtech shells that hold the bottom bracket bearings are outside the frame's bottom bracket tube, which is about 1.375" diameter.  With the larger Hollowtech shell you end up with more and bigger bearings.  But anyway, bottom brackets are fairly durable and rarely give any problems.  The problem with square taper sealed bottom brackets is there are not many or any higher end cranks built for them anymore.  The Sugino mentioned above are probably nice.  I have good memories of Sugino from about 30 years ago.

Jan Heine, the link you provided, runs a magazine and a bicycle parts company.  A company that sells the square taper bottom brackets you are fond of.  He might have a vested interest.  Kind of like when a bike magazine recommends a bike and then you see advertisements in the magazine from that same bike brand.  Makes you wonder if the magazine selling advertisements to the bike company can be trusted to do an objective review of the bike.  They are paid by the bike company.

You say you are a Surly owner.  Do you know anything about Surly?  Surly is a brand name created by QBP.  QBP is the largest bike parts distributor in the US.  QBP is based in Minneapolis.  QBP supplies all the stuff to your local bike shop.  QBP saw an opportunity in the biking world.  People were fond of old biking parts for some reason.  Not sure why because old bike parts never worked as nicely as newer parts.  But QBP wanted to capitalize on this fondness people had for the old days.  So they created the Surly brand.  All Surly stuff is made in China.  QBP has many contacts in China because they import all the stuff they distribute from China.  QBP knows China very well.  QBP had Surly bike frames made in China from cheap Chinese steel.  China is a huge steel producer.  Hopefully QBP monitors closely the Chinese factories making the Surly frames.  QBP can sell its Surly frames pretty cheaply in the US because it makes them very cheaply in China and still make a good profit.  Good business plan.  QBP already distributes to every bike shop in the US so they have the distribution network already established.  Sell Surly frames and parts to the same shops they already serve.  QBP saw the niche for old style nostalgic bike parts and they filled it with the Surly brand creation.

Offline DaveB

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #57 on: November 28, 2015, 06:15:12 pm »
An addendum to my recent post. This goes into good detail on why square taper and ISIS bottom brackets, that use larger bearings, are more durable than Hollowtech, etc that use smaller bearings. https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/skf-bottom-brackets-after-5-years/.
ISIS had a well deserved reputation for being an unreliable and fragile bottom bracket design since the patent was in the public domain and anyone could, and did, make them. Most SIS bottom brackets were cheap and unreliable.   Shimano's Hollowtech I Octalink design was similar but far better constructed and more durable.   Both used smaller bearings than either square taper or external bearing designs.   Like Russ, I take Jan Heine's recommendations with a lot of salt.

As to Surly, I think Russ gives them too little credit.  Yes, they are a QBP house brand provide many niche products the big makers (Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, etc.) neglect and provide durable  well made frames at very reasonable cost.   They are not made of "cheap Chinese steel" but of decent quality Chinese Cr-Mo steel and assembled with good quality welds and properly aligned.  They are far more than "nostalgic" and, indeed, pretty much invented the current "Fat Bike" design.

Offline RonK

Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #58 on: November 28, 2015, 07:05:05 pm »
It takes little effort to discover that many of the world's best touring bikes are still built with square taper cranks.

The reasons for this are simple - they are cheap, reliable and easily sourced. Replacement parts and the tools needed to fit them are available almost anywhere in the world.

And it's not only low end Chinese manufacturers that produce them - Phil Wood components are about as high end as you can get. For anyone setting out in a world tour, Phil's bb (and hubs) would probably be the best choice.

As far as cranksets go, there is no shortage of quality square taper cranksets available which are perfectly suited to the demands of touring.

In fact a simple Google search will return countless offerings.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 07:32:24 pm by RonK »
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

Offline CanvasAndSteel

Re: Surly LHT/Disc Trucker
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2015, 07:42:25 pm »
(meaning you won't be told that square taper bottom brackets are no longer made or that they are, but just basic, inexpensive ones).  I built up Surly Trolls for my wife and me.

I'll admit I was surprised Sugino still makes square taper cranks.  I have not heard of Sugino since the mid 1980s.  Did not even know they still existed.  As for the ones Surly uses on its complete bikes.  They are some Chinese company I have never heard of.  Shimano abandoned square tapers on its upper models in the late 1990s or so.  They may still make square taper cranks for the cheapest bikes they equip.  But not on the upper levels.  I have several Dura Ace square taper cranks.  And Campagnolo square taper cranks.  All over 15 years old.  Not sure I would recommend someone build up a bike using parts 15 or more years old.  Just like I would not recommend someone build up a bike using 7 or 8 speed parts.  The biking world has moved on.

Not sure how square taper bottom brackets can use larger bearings than Shimano Hollowtech.  Square taper bottom brackets go inside the bottom bracket shell on the frame.  Its a tube about 1.375" diameter.  Hollowtech shells are about 1.875" diameter.  About half inch larger because the Hollowtech shells that hold the bottom bracket bearings are outside the frame's bottom bracket tube, which is about 1.375" diameter.  With the larger Hollowtech shell you end up with more and bigger bearings.  But anyway, bottom brackets are fairly durable and rarely give any problems.  The problem with square taper sealed bottom brackets is there are not many or any higher end cranks built for them anymore.  The Sugino mentioned above are probably nice.  I have good memories of Sugino from about 30 years ago.

Jan Heine, the link you provided, runs a magazine and a bicycle parts company.  A company that sells the square taper bottom brackets you are fond of.  He might have a vested interest.  Kind of like when a bike magazine recommends a bike and then you see advertisements in the magazine from that same bike brand.  Makes you wonder if the magazine selling advertisements to the bike company can be trusted to do an objective review of the bike.  They are paid by the bike company.

You say you are a Surly owner.  Do you know anything about Surly?  Surly is a brand name created by QBP.  QBP is the largest bike parts distributor in the US.  QBP is based in Minneapolis.  QBP supplies all the stuff to your local bike shop.  QBP saw an opportunity in the biking world.  People were fond of old biking parts for some reason.  Not sure why because old bike parts never worked as nicely as newer parts.  But QBP wanted to capitalize on this fondness people had for the old days.  So they created the Surly brand.  All Surly stuff is made in China.  QBP has many contacts in China because they import all the stuff they distribute from China.  QBP knows China very well.  QBP had Surly bike frames made in China from cheap Chinese steel.  China is a huge steel producer.  Hopefully QBP monitors closely the Chinese factories making the Surly frames.  QBP can sell its Surly frames pretty cheaply in the US because it makes them very cheaply in China and still make a good profit.  Good business plan.  QBP already distributes to every bike shop in the US so they have the distribution network already established.  Sell Surly frames and parts to the same shops they already serve.  QBP saw the niche for old style nostalgic bike parts and they filled it with the Surly brand creation.
Wow. That's quite a rant.

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