Author Topic: Drivetrain HELP  (Read 13023 times)

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Offline CanvasAndSteel

Re: Drivetrain HELP
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2015, 11:54:32 am »
Just curious, for a touring bike what's the perceived benefit for going with XT instead of mid line Shimano?
I thought XT was mid-line and sort of the Ultegra of the MTB world.  XTR is the Dura Ace equivalent.

XT actually isn't mid-line.  Tourney, Altus, Acer, Alivio, Deore, SLX, Zee, XT, XTR.  Deore is probably the best combination of price, durability and trickle down technology from the higher end.

Offline CanvasAndSteel

Re: Drivetrain HELP
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2015, 12:02:28 pm »
for a touring bike what's the perceived benefit for going with XT instead of mid line Shimano?

Perceived benefit.  Easy.  The top groups, XTR for mountain, Dura Ace for road, are better because they are lighter, higher quality, more expensive, prettier, nicer, etc.  Maybe, maybe it lasts longer too.  Maybe.  Higher groups may use bearings instead of bushings.  Maybe the higher groups have more advanced, newer features.  Maybe.  Higher groups may use more exotic material, titanium and carbon instead of aluminum or steel.  Within the Shimano lineup, they all work very well, last a long time, cost different.  Buy whichever you want.  They all work the same.

I'm not challenging the OP.  People should get what they want.  For an MTB XT makes sense if you want to drop weight and get a precise and immediate shift.  I'm just not sure those two things are very important with a touring bike.  Deore durability will be at least as good as XT-XTR.  It will be a few ounces heavier for the group, won't have the cachet of the other two.  For most riders I don't think there's a questionable return on investment for touring by going with XT-XTR over Deore-SLX.

Offline balm426

Re: Drivetrain HELP
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2015, 12:24:08 pm »
for a touring bike what's the perceived benefit for going with XT instead of mid line Shimano?

Perceived benefit.  Easy.  The top groups, XTR for mountain, Dura Ace for road, are better because they are lighter, higher quality, more expensive, prettier, nicer, etc.  Maybe, maybe it lasts longer too.  Maybe.  Higher groups may use bearings instead of bushings.  Maybe the higher groups have more advanced, newer features.  Maybe.  Higher groups may use more exotic material, titanium and carbon instead of aluminum or steel.  Within the Shimano lineup, they all work very well, last a long time, cost different.  Buy whichever you want.  They all work the same.

I'm not challenging the OP.  People should get what they want.  For an MTB XT makes sense if you want to drop weight and get a precise and immediate shift.  I'm just not sure those two things are very important with a touring bike.  Deore durability will be at least as good as XT-XTR.  It will be a few ounces heavier for the group, won't have the cachet of the other two.  For most riders I don't think there's a questionable return on investment for touring by going with XT-XTR over Deore-SLX.

I really appreciate all the comments and suggestions. I am not completely set on XT, that is just what I'm used to with my mountain bikes. I am still in the process of looking for parts at a great deal. I found a complete Deore groupset that I can save about $200 over the XT kit. It seems like XT may not be worth an additional $200.

Offline paddleboy17

Re: Drivetrain HELP
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2015, 12:42:09 pm »
Deore, LX, SLX, and XT are both good, XTR is racing oriented and generally a poor investment on a touring bike.  I would not consider the other mountain bike groupings.

Someone mentioned that you cannot easily co-mingle 10 speed road and mountain groups and that is true.  The mid-cage 10 speed 105 derailleur will span a 32 tooth cassette, so you can do a 10 speed touring bike based on a mountain crank and cassette with road shifters and derailleurs.  That is how I built up my back road bike, and I love it.  Nashbar was blowing out 10 speed bar con shifters for $50, and even though they dropped friction shifting (was great for limp home), it is a great shifter at a great price.
Danno

Offline CanvasAndSteel

Re: Drivetrain HELP
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2015, 01:18:38 pm »
for a touring bike what's the perceived benefit for going with XT instead of mid line Shimano?

Perceived benefit.  Easy.  The top groups, XTR for mountain, Dura Ace for road, are better because they are lighter, higher quality, more expensive, prettier, nicer, etc.  Maybe, maybe it lasts longer too.  Maybe.  Higher groups may use bearings instead of bushings.  Maybe the higher groups have more advanced, newer features.  Maybe.  Higher groups may use more exotic material, titanium and carbon instead of aluminum or steel.  Within the Shimano lineup, they all work very well, last a long time, cost different.  Buy whichever you want.  They all work the same.

I'm not challenging the OP.  People should get what they want.  For an MTB XT makes sense if you want to drop weight and get a precise and immediate shift.  I'm just not sure those two things are very important with a touring bike.  Deore durability will be at least as good as XT-XTR.  It will be a few ounces heavier for the group, won't have the cachet of the other two.  For most riders I don't think there's a questionable return on investment for touring by going with XT-XTR over Deore-SLX.

I really appreciate all the comments and suggestions. I am not completely set on XT, that is just what I'm used to with my mountain bikes. I am still in the process of looking for parts at a great deal. I found a complete Deore groupset that I can save about $200 over the XT kit. It seems like XT may not be worth an additional $200.

$200 is nothing to sneeze at, and, honestly, I don't think you'll feel a difference in performance.  I just built a Troll up for touring using Deore.  I use 80's barcons for shifters (yep, I'm one of the few who still likes the feel of friction, although I have STI on my fat bike and road bike because of the need at times for a quicker shift). If I had kept the flat bars I would have upgraded the shifters to XT, as it's in the shifter that you'll feel the difference.

Offline jrswenberger

Re: Drivetrain HELP
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2015, 02:18:50 pm »
For loaded touring, don't even think/stress about the upper gearing. If you are spinning out on a 40/12, you'll be much better off coasting. Your low end gearing can't be too low if there are ANY hills involved, especially as you've stated you aren't whispy thin.  ;)

I wouldn't stress about the actual gearing ranges unless you just like to focus on unnecessary details. Touring should be more about the experience (in my opinion) of riding.

As far as components, mid-level components give the most bang for the buck and simple, regular maintenance will provide a good life span for all the bits and bobs. Low end parts typically won't be as reliable and high end parts are made for minimal weight, not necessarily reliability.

For touring purposes, reliability trumps all else on my bikes, most everything else is marketing hype. Get what fits with your bike and sense of mission...and don't forget to Enjoy The Ride!

Jay
ACA Life Member 368

Offline PeteJack

Re: Drivetrain HELP
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2015, 11:50:24 pm »
For many years I've rode a Trek 520 with  51-38-24 Shimano 105 square taper cartridge bearing crankset 9-speed 11-32 rear. My LBS tells me the old 105 stuff is no longer made and as the BB was showing signs of wear I had them replace it with Shimano FC-5703 external bearing triple (there's Youtubes on installing them) this set comes as 50-39-30 and I had them put a 24T ring on the bottom. Nominally this is a 10 speed crankset but it works just fine with 9-speed. I had some trouble with rear shifting I thought was a chain size problem that turned out to be a worn out shifter detents, changing to friction shifting mode fixed that though it takes a bit of getting used to.

I think you can get the FC-5703 set for about $120 on the net and you may have to buy a tool to install the bearings for <$50.

Offline balm426

Re: Drivetrain HELP
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2015, 12:29:45 pm »
I ordered all my parts last week. I ended up going with mostly XT components because I found killer deals on them. I went with the mountain bike gearing as it seems it will suit my needs for the tour and home riding the best.

Haven't gotten anything installed yet. Once I took the bike basically apart I decided to powder coat the frame. The frame should be done in the next couple days so I can get to putting it all back together.

I really appreciate everyones input on this thread.

Offline RonK

Drivetrain HELP
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2015, 11:52:10 pm »
For many years I've rode a Trek 520 with  51-38-24 Shimano 105 square taper cartridge bearing crankset 9-speed 11-32 rear. My LBS tells me the old 105 stuff is no longer made and as the BB was showing signs of wear I had them replace it with Shimano FC-5703 external bearing triple...
Your lbs has mislead you at best, outright lied to you at worst. Shimano square taper bb's are widely available and cheap, and remain the bb of choice for cycle tourists.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

Offline staehpj1

Re: Drivetrain HELP
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2015, 10:21:09 am »
Your lbs has mislead you at best, outright lied to you at worst. Shimano square taper bb's are widely available and cheap, and remain the bb of choice for cycle tourists.
I agree that square taper is fine, but would question whether they are necessarily "the bb of choice for cycle tourists".  If I were building from scratch I would at least consider a more modern choice.  I wouldn't change cranks and BB to get away from a square taper though.

Offline RussSeaton

Re: Drivetrain HELP
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2015, 01:32:57 pm »
Your lbs has mislead you at best, outright lied to you at worst. Shimano square taper bb's are widely available and cheap, and remain the bb of choice for cycle tourists.
I agree that square taper is fine, but would question whether they are necessarily "the bb of choice for cycle tourists".  If I were building from scratch I would at least consider a more modern choice.  I wouldn't change cranks and BB to get away from a square taper though.

I will agree.  I rebuilt my touring bike about a decade ago with a new frame/fork.  And lots of other new parts too.  But I used the same original 1991 Deore DX square taper crankarms and wheels.  Using a square taper bottom bracket did have the advantage of allowing me to buy a length that made the crank as narrow as possible.  The modern two piece cranks would not allow that narrowing of the crank arms.  I still have square taper cranks on many of my bikes because that is what cranks used when I built the bikes.  Or I obtained a high quality Dura Ace or Record square taper crank cheaply later on and used it.