Salsa Marrakesh

[TerdFerguson]

Hi folks - was surprised that a search of the forums didn't turn up any discussions on the new Salsa Marrakesh. Any thoughts or reviews? I test rode one today and loved it. Have a 24hr hold on it...anyone want to try and talk me out of it?

[RussSeaton]

Looks very similar to Trek 520, Surly Long Haul, REI Randonee.  Steel frame, fork, bar end shifters, triple crank, derailleurs, braze ons, etc.  Priced about the same at $1600.  Odd that Salsa chose 9 speed instead of 10 speed.  Don't see any good reason to go into the past for parts.  10 speed has been the normal for road and mountain bikes for a decade or more.  And 11 is the new norm now days.  Why intentionally choose parts that are 10-15 years past their prime?

[DaveB]

It's another disc LHT with a different logo.  The only real difference is that the Salsa is available in flat bar format too. Both Salsa and surly are owned by QBP.

[RonK]

Go for it - it has a better component spec than any of the other bikes mentioned.


Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

[RussSeaton]

Both Salsa and surly are owned by QBP.

Did not know that.

As for the comment that the Salsa has a better component spec, NO it does not.  If you look at the REI Randonee you will see it is only $1200 retail price and has better Shimano derailleurs and hubs and is 10 speed instead of 9 speed for the Salsa.  So Salsa/Surly/QBP is charging 33% more and giving you lesser Shimano parts.  Sounds pretty normal.  The wheels on the Salsa are $130 retail at Price Point for the pair.  $1470 retail for the other parts/frame on the Salsa seem kind of high.  The Surly Long Haul Trucker complete bike is $1400.  $200 less than the Salsa.  The Surly Long Haul frameset is only $470.  So $470 for the Surly/Salsa frameset, $130 for the wheels on the Salsa, and maybe another $600 to buy retail all the other parts on the bike.  About $1200 retail price, about the same as the REI bike.  Within sight maybe of the Surly bike price.  But hundreds less than the Salsa price of $1600.  Now I am all for spending lots of money on bikes.  Spend more, be happier, ride faster or further.  Yeah.  But to pay more for nothing more seems wasteful to me.  If you spend more and get more, then go for it if you want.  But to pay more and get the same is not wise.

[tootall]

Check the "feature" section on Salsa website. The rack is specifically designed for that frame. This was confirmed by speaking with Salsa Rep. I believe only Salsa racks will fit.

[dkoloko]

Looks very similar to Trek 520, Surly Long Haul, REI Randonee.  Steel frame, fork, bar end shifters, triple crank, derailleurs, braze ons, etc.  Priced about the same at $1600.  Odd that Salsa chose 9 speed instead of 10 speed.  Don't see any good reason to go into the past for parts.  10 speed has been the normal for road and mountain bikes for a decade or more.  And 11 is the new norm now days.  Why intentionally choose parts that are 10-15 years past their prime?

I have not heard of any 11 speed bicycles designed for fully loaded touring. 10 speed has not been the normal for touring bicycles "for a decade or more". I have a 2014 Trek 520, 9 speed. Prefer 10 speeds for a  touring bike if you wish, but I would not say buying a 9 speed touring bike is choosing "parts that are 10-15 years past their prime". This organization's  magazine recently featured a custom touring bike that cost nearly $9000, 8 speed. I questioned that, did you? The editor didn't answer the question.

[RussSeaton]

Looks very similar to Trek 520, Surly Long Haul, REI Randonee.  Steel frame, fork, bar end shifters, triple crank, derailleurs, braze ons, etc.  Priced about the same at $1600.  Odd that Salsa chose 9 speed instead of 10 speed.  Don't see any good reason to go into the past for parts.  10 speed has been the normal for road and mountain bikes for a decade or more.  And 11 is the new norm now days.  Why intentionally choose parts that are 10-15 years past their prime?

I have not heard of any 11 speed bicycles designed for fully loaded touring. 10 speed has not been the normal for touring bicycles "for a decade or more". I have a 2014 Trek 520, 9 speed. Prefer 10 speeds for a  touring bike if you wish, but I would not say buying a 9 speed touring bike is choosing "parts that are 10-15 years past their prime". This organization's  magazine recently featured a custom touring bike that cost nearly $9000, 8 speed. I questioned that, did you? The editor didn't answer the question.

I don't recall suggesting anyone use 11 speed cassettes on a loaded touring bike.  Did you suggest this?  But all the top road and mountain bike groups use 11 speed cassettes now.  Dura Ace 10 speed was introduced in 2003-4, Ultegra 10 speed was 2005, Shimano 105 10 speed was 2007, Tiagra became 10 speed in 2012.  Not sure on the mountain bike groups but I would think they became 10 speed 1 or 2 years after the road groups.  So it has been a decade of 10 speed mountain bike groups from Shimano.  Guessing SRAM was very similar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shimano

The current Trek 520 still has 9 speed cassette.  Not sure why Trek is choosing to sell bikes with outdated parts.  I suppose a bike equipped with out of date parts appeals to the buyers of loaded touring bikes.  Trek's 720 and 920 sort of touring bikes have 11 and 10 speed cassettes.

I do not recall the bike offered by Adventure Cycling.  But if it had an 8 speed gearing system, I would wonder what cave the designers were living in for the past couple decades.

[dkoloko]

I don't recall suggesting anyone use 11 speed cassettes on a loaded touring bike.  Did you suggest this?

You stated, "And 11 is the new norm now days." in saying Salsa Marrakesh's components, a touring bike, are behind the times.

[paddleboy17]

Touring bikes have been trapped at 9 speed for a while, due to Shimano changing the pull ratios on mountain bike derailleurs. 
Another side affect of narrowing chains is that after 9 speed, road and mountain bike components will not interoperate.  10 and 11 speed touring bike require an all road derailleur and shifter solution. You can do a 32 tooth rear with a specific 10 speed 105 derailleur.  I doubt adequate gearing can be done in 11 speed. 

[TerdFerguson]

As the OP for this thread, thought I should check back in. I bought the Marrakesh and I love it. It fits great, feels great, and is such a fun ride. Looking forward to many, many adventures together!

[RussSeaton]

I don't recall suggesting anyone use 11 speed cassettes on a loaded touring bike.  Did you suggest this?

You stated, "And 11 is the new norm now days." in saying Salsa Marrakesh's components, a touring bike, are behind the times.

Yes, 11 speed is used by Shimano Dura Ace, Ultegra, and 105.  SRAM Red, Force, Rival are 11 speed.  Campagnolo Super, Record, Chorus, Athena are 11 speed.  Shimano mountain XTR, XT, Saint are 11 speed.  Its been 3-4-5 years since 11 speed replaced 10 speed at the upper and middle level of bikes.  11 speed is the new norm for upper bikes.  But 10 speed is still common on bikes sold in shops and the internet.  Its still very easy to get 10 speed parts at all levels, high and low.

But the Salsa Marrakesh uses 9 speed parts.  Its been 10 years since 9 speed was the top.  9 speed is not the prior year model/last year's model.  9 speed is two models ago.  Its been replaced twice already.  It fits my definition of behind the times for bicycles.

Paddleboy17 does present a good reason for why touring bikes remain with 9 speed.  The incompatibility between mountain and road groups.  And the fact touring bikes take parts from both the road and mountain world and try to make them interact on a bike.

[paddleboy17]

Adventure Cycling magazine did an article on this topic in the not too distant past.  I think they called it the Drivetrain Dilemma.  One fascinating tidbit is that Shimano has shutdown most of 9 speed XT production.  The one 9 speed XT component still in production is the rear derailleur--Shimano still sells them in touring bike build kits.

Last summer I built up a 90's steel mountain bike frame and fork (Kona Cindercone) as a dirt road bike using 10 speed components.  The 10 speed compact double mountain bike crank worked great, but shifting was a disaster (8 speed Durace BarCons in friction mode, 9 speed XTR rear derailleur).  I ended up with 10 speed Durace BarCons, and the 10 speed 105 rear derailleur that spans a 32 tooth rear cassette (there is also a 10 speed 105 rear derailleur that will not span a 32 tooth rear cassette).  I learned three things from the process.

1) Friction shifting with 10 speed sucks--alignment is too ornery.

2) 10 speed road shifters do not work with  9 speed mountain bike derailleurs--mountain bike shifting over shifts and settles into position and road shifting moves exactly where it wants to go and demands that everything else follow along.

3) 10 speed chains want 10 speed jockey wheels.

[DaveB]

Last summer I built up a 90's steel mountain bike frame and fork (Kona Cindercone) as a dirt road bike using 10 speed components.  The 10 speed compact double mountain bike crank worked great, but shifting was a disaster (8 speed Durace BarCons in friction mode, 9 speed XTR rear derailleur).  I ended up with 10 speed Durace BarCons, and the 10 speed 105 rear derailleur that spans a 32 tooth rear cassette (there is also a 10 speed 105 rear derailleur that will not span a 32 tooth rear cassette).  I learned three things from the process.

1) Friction shifting with 10 speed sucks--alignment is too ornery.

2) 10 speed road shifters do not work with  9 speed mountain bike derailleurs--mountain bike shifting over shifts and settles into position and road shifting moves exactly where it wants to go and demands that everything else follow along.

3) 10 speed chains want 10 speed jockey wheels.

That's interesting since I have 10-speed triple cranks (FC-5703 and FC-4603) on all my bikes and 10-speed cassettes on three of them shifted using downtube levers (on Retroshift brackets) or one bike with 10-speed barends.   Of course, these are all friction shifters in front and all work wonderfully.   Shifting is fast, precise and reliable.  I can only assume you have a mis-matched, incompatible (or very poorly adjusted) front derailleur and that causes the poor shifting.

[paddleboy17]

That's interesting since I have 10-speed triple cranks (FC-5703 and FC-4603) on all my bikes and 10-speed cassettes on three of them shifted using downtube levers (on Retroshift brackets) or one bike with 10-speed barends.   Of course, these are all friction shifters in front and all work wonderfully.   Shifting is fast, precise and reliable.  I can only assume you have a mis-matched, incompatible (or very poorly adjusted) front derailleur and that causes the poor shifting.

Having a 9 speed derailleur may have aggravated things.  And it may be that I am a lot more anal about shifting than you are.  I just did not like 10 speed friction shifting.  This from the man who ran a 9 speed bike in friction mode for years to get out of replacing a cracked end cap on a derailleur cable.