Author Topic: Tour crankset modifications from a 48-36 to triple - choices??? :-\  (Read 7226 times)

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Offline justin

I am planning to do a few thousand miles this summer (3-4 months) and trying to sort out what I need to buy and the crankset is taking up too much of my time

Currently I have a stock Surly Crosscheck 2015, so an Andel 48-36 crankset (no third chain ring option anymore) which isn't going to work with the hills (south china) and touring load (around 60lbs) - current set up:
- Cassette = Shimano CS-62-10, 11-32t, 10-speed
- Rear Derailleur = Shimano Deore XT (medium cage - can support a 46t capacity - not sure i totally understand that)
- Andel crankset 48-36t (QRSC31-227XR)
- Front Derailleur = Shimano Tiagra FD-4600 (will need to change for triple)
- chain = KMC X10

My biggest problem is I hate waste and doubt I can sell or get much for the Andel if I replace it with something like the Sugino XD500 so keeping both cranksets seems like over kill; the second problem is that I don't like down grading - but trying to be minimalistic

So my options so far:

A. Buy a triplelizer from IRD http://store.interlocracing.com/cotrch.html
- add a 24 tooth smaller ring (not sure what - probably steel for durability)
costs expected 150 CDN

Concern is that the IRD piece won't survive (torque and load) and I will be in the middle of nowhere with only a high gear unable to replace parts

B. Buy a 44-34-22 MTB crank (like a Deore XT or something similar)
- replace innerring to a 24 as most seem to go to a 22t on the inner ring which i think Surly only recommends 24 for the frame to avoid rub (not sure what this means entirely - does it rub on all gears or just with the 11-17t cogs?)

costs expected 250 CDN

Concerns that it's 90 more than i need to spend, is 44t fast enough for the descents (if that matters),

C. Replace with a 48-36-24 crank
- there is the Sram Truvativ, Sugino 500 or 600, can't find anything with Shimano

costs expected around 200

Concerns - I have to exact cranks...

Then need to
- change front Derailleur
- new BB

Advice?

Offline RussSeaton

Re: Tour crankset modifications from a 48-36 to triple - choices??? :-\
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2016, 09:31:32 pm »
Unfortunately it sounds like you don't know much of anything about bike mechanics.  So maybe the best advice is to go to a local bike shop and have them do it after you explain what you want.  But what the hell, I'll give advice.

Assume your double cross check bike has the bar end shifters.  So it will shift any front derailleur, double or triple.  And any 10 speed cassette.  Simplest might be to put a triple crank on the bike, any of the ones you mention would work.  Get the smallest inner chainring possible.  22 tooth or at worst 24 if that is the smallest that fits.  Keep the outer chainring somewhat small too.  44 outer is great.  May need a new longer bottom bracket to space the inner ring out from the seattube.  And a triple front derailleur.  Some double front derailleurs shift a triple fine.  Have to try it to see if yours works.

Another option is to put a mountain bike double crankset on the bike.  These have around a 40 outer ring and can go down to a 22 inner ring.  Usually sold with a bigger inner ring so have to replace.  This keeps all your derailleurs the same.  Look at Nashbar.  They sell lots of Shmano double mountain cranks.  Not sure there are any that take a square taper bottom bracket like you have now.  So may need a new bottom bracket with the crank.  That is easy.  You could easily get 42-22 rings on the crank.  With your 11-32 cassette, you will have enough high and low gears for anything.  Derailleurs stay the same.  Look for double cranks that take 104mm bcd outer and 64mm bcd inner.  All 4 bolt.

Another possibility is to replace your 11-32 ten speed cassette with a 11-34 ten speed cassette.  Get a little lower low gear.  Not a lot but a little lower.  Might not be cost effective to replace new with new.  But if replacing an old worn out cassette, look at the 11-34 option.

The IRD triple adaptor would work OK.  Get a 24 tooth inner chainring for it.  Add the right spacers and bolts for the inner ring.  Go to a bike shop.  You would have to replace the bottom bracket with a longer one.  Easy and cheap.  Current derailleurs will work fine with it.  May or may not need to change your current double front derailleur with a triple front derailleur.  Try it to tell.  Current chain and cassette also work fine.  You're worried about breaking it?  Ha Ha Ho Ho.  I suppose you worry about winning the lottery too.  Terrible problem.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 12:47:16 am by RussSeaton »

Offline justin

Re: Tour crankset modifications from a 48-36 to triple - choices??? :-\
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2016, 07:50:43 am »
Russ, thanks - I hadn't considered the 42-22 crank.

I admit I am still new to a lot about bike mechanics. As for dealing with a bike-shop well I live a thousand miles from nowhere and if I don't know what I want/need they will sell me what they have or think I can use (one bike shop does road racing, the other downhill - touring isn't really part of their market). Their recommendations have been 50-39-30 (which could go down to 26) or something over 300 which didn't seem necessary (not including the new BB).

Appreciated


Offline RonK

Re: Tour crankset modifications from a 48-36 to triple - choices??? :-\
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2016, 09:10:17 am »
My biggest problem is I hate waste and doubt I can sell or get much for the Andel if I replace it with something like the Sugino XD500 so keeping both cranksets seems like over kill; the second problem is that I don't like down grading - but trying to be minimalistic
Yep, that your problem alright. You'll have to work that one out for yourself - nobody can help you with it.

i think Surly only recommends 24 for the frame to avoid rub (not sure what this means entirely - does it rub on all gears or just with the 11-17t cogs?)
I don't know where you got that from. According to Surly: "Chainring clearance: Manipulated stays so you can fit the size rings you want. Go nuts"

is 44t fast enough for the descents (if that matters),
It doesn't matter. You cannot have too low a gear. If you can claw your way to the top of the hills, the descents will take care of themselves.

Advice?
I have been running a 44/34/22 crankset for quite some time, but the reality is that I rarely get to use the big ring. So for my recent build I decided to forego it altogether.

Instead I chose a 2 x 10 Sram GX setup with a 36/22 crankset and 11-36 cassette. 90 rpm cadence on the 36 x 11 will have  me reaching 24.5 mph - far faster than I am capable of riding a loaded touring bike unless it's a downhill run or with a strong tailwind. I been riding this bike for several weeks since finishing the build and I'm finding the progression of the gears feels quite natural.

Since you are a long way from bike shops and by your own confession are not very experienced, you need to keep it simple. You could go far the Sram GX 2 x10 36/22 crankset as I have done, or choose a Deore M615 38/24. Easily sourced online and just over $100. Comes with a Hollowtech BB which is a piece of cake to install. All you need.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 09:26:06 am by RonK »
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Offline justin

Re: Tour crankset modifications from a 48-36 to triple - choices??? :-\
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2016, 10:12:37 am »
Quote
Quote from: justin on September 18, 2016, 03:10:08 pm
i think Surly only recommends 24 for the frame to avoid rub (not sure what this means entirely - does it rub on all gears or just with the 11-17t cogs?)
I don't know where you got that from. According to Surly: "Chainring clearance: Manipulated stays so you can fit the size rings you want. Go nuts"

Looks like i miss read the bottom bracket spec's, the 24t stated refers to tpi not teeth. So thank you Ronk for leading to me to that clarification

Offline dkoloko

Re: Tour crankset modifications from a 48-36 to triple - choices??? :-\
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2016, 11:26:47 am »
Russ Seaton has some good comments. I add that, according to Berto, switching from double to triple crank, 80 percent of the time it is not necessary to change to a triple BB. That has been my experience. Also, if changing cassette to get lower gears, you might as well get one with a 36 tooth cog, as a long cage rear derailleur that shifts to a 34 tooth cog is likely to shift to a 36. That is my experience.

Offline Bike Hermit

Re: Tour crankset modifications from a 48-36 to triple - choices??? :-\
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2016, 06:14:03 pm »
I agree with the suggestions to stick with the double front chain rings. You know the shifters and  front derailleur will work. Get one of the mentioned MTB cranks or IRD also makes the so-called Wide Compact Road Double with 46-30 tooth rings. Then do the 36 tooth cassette (you may need a new rear derailleur.)   Fiddle around with the Sheldon Gear Calculator to get the gears you think you need. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html
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Offline staehpj1

Re: Tour crankset modifications from a 48-36 to triple - choices??? :-\
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2016, 07:21:49 am »
I used to insist on having a big top gear and a low enough low to make it up the climbs.  These days I have found that I don't care so much about the high gear being all that high.  I have also begun to care less about super low gears, but that is because I have started to practice a very minimalist and light packing style.

My last long paved road tour (Southern Tier) I went with a 39/26 and a 12-28 (a range of about 25-48 gear inches) carrying 14 pounds base gear weight and was very happy with the choice.  The 39/26 was a triple with the big ring left off. 

Since then I have spent quite a bit of time on a 2x10 mountain bike and based on my experience with that setup I might go with either a 1x10 or a 2x10 if I were setting up a touring bike from scratch.  I think I'd actually favor the 1X10 (or maybe even a 1x11)

Some of the new MTB clusters are really super wide range.  Enough so that a 1x10 really can work fine for just about any road conditions.  I think that if I were starting from scratch I'd consider a 1x10 with an 11-42 MTB cluster and what ever ring gave me the low gear I wanted.

All that said...  In your case I'd probably just go to a MTB double and stick with the 12-32 unless your current crank can take appropriate sized rings.  I'd err on the side of closer spaced rings and accept a lower high gear.  How low would depend on the load and the terrain.  At 60 pounds of gear, in the mountains you will likely need to go lower than I normally would with my lighter load.

Offline andrews

Re: Tour crankset modifications from a 48-36 to triple - choices??? :-\
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2016, 03:10:02 pm »
I've been using a 44-32-22 triple crank with a 12-36 tooth cassette for major tours (New Zealand, Pennsylvania). Like everyone else the upper chainring is nice to have sometimes, but not very often. With a 9-speed cassette 95% of the time is on the middle ring, and riding is more like the low-high-middle range on a truck. There needs to be about a 15% or less difference between gears for most touring. There isn't a lot shifting between chainrings, so make the middle ring the most comfortable. The 22F-36R lowest gear is wonderful to have, but is really only useful if I'm already moving, and want to get more distance in before getting off to push. The travel distance is so short that starting out on a steep incline is nearly impossible. I've pedaled up +10% grades with 50 lbs of packs with that gearing, and was happy to have it. Good Luck!

Offline DaveB

Re: Tour crankset modifications from a 48-36 to triple - choices??? :-\
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2016, 06:15:28 pm »
I went with a 39/26 and a 12-28 (a range of about 25-48 gear inches).....
Assuming 700c tires this is a gear range of 88 to 25 gear-inches so I assume your high gear figure was a typo.