Author Topic: 5lb “penalty”... what is the cost?  (Read 4068 times)

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Offline LeoBurns

5lb “penalty”... what is the cost?
« on: March 24, 2018, 12:29:13 pm »
Looking for advice/feedback please. I currently use a free standing 2 person tent that is expedition ready (black label, Hilleberg) that I use for winter camping... and stores in my Bob trailer just fine (designed for my carbon MTB and the GAP type trails)... Now that I’m getting a road bike and planning longer road tours... what is the penalty of 5 lbs?   I am looking to buy a yellow label Enan tent... non-free standing 3 season tent... ignoring the cost - it will be <3 lbs with ground sheet, pack smaller but would sit on the rear rack... similar to the other tent... minimal wind exposure, but there is a weight/non-free standing/size offsets. 

Thoughts?

Offline Pat Lamb

Re: 5lb “penalty”... what is the cost?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2018, 03:31:56 pm »
If you're going to continue to haul A tent in a trailer, I can't see much downside to five more pounds. 

Look at the delta in the context of the total load: you, your bike, bags,  trailer (or racks), etc.  If you were bikepacking, 5 pounds would be the end of the world -- until you add in how much you weigh, your pack, bike, full water bottles (and sometimes the full is critical!).  Let's play with hypotheticals: you weigh 180 pounds, your bike weighs 20#, the trailer weighs 10, your luggage weighs 15, food and water weigh 10.  Now if suddenly your 8 pound tent replaces your 3 pound tent, you're pedaling 240# instead of 235# up the hills.  2.1% extra effort probably won't kill you.

The real downside is when you repeat that with every bit of gear.  Suddenly you're hauling 280 to 300 pounds uphill, and that will make a difference.

Offline LeoBurns

Re: 5lb “penalty”... what is the cost?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2018, 10:12:37 pm »
Pat, I like your approach... the Tent was purchased with the Bob trailer in mind... I even haul a REI camp chair with me.... 28 lbs total gear.   Now... I’m building my road bike option... rear rack, rear panniers and eith an inner frame bag or sweet roll bad from Revelate... before I spend another $600im going to try the current tent ... at least to start.  Thanks!

Offline barturtle

Re: 5lb “penalty”... what is the cost?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2018, 08:20:24 pm »
If you're looking at a light, compact tent, I'd suggest taking a look at the Tarptent Protrail. I have the previous version, the Contrail, and with pegs, poles, and footprint it comes in under 2lbs, and I can pack it in half a front pannier. And even with the optional poles, it's about half the price of the Enan.

The cost savings would allow you to go with a lighter quilt,  like the Enlightened Equipment Revelation APEX, my 50F, long,  wide weighs about 14oz. Add in an ultralight inflatable sleeping mat, and pillow, and my full sleep/shelter kit is well under 4lbs and fits in a front pannier with space to spare

If you can downsize like that across the board and use smaller panniers the savings start adding up, and the bike will feel much better to ride.



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Offline canalligators

Re: 5lb “penalty”... what is the cost?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2018, 09:03:40 pm »
The penalty for added weight is more effort to climb.  F to climb =MG, last I knew.  If you really are ignoring the cost, I'd get the lighter tent, or more importantly, cut out as much load as possible.  We really don't need a lot of the schtuff we take along.

Offline LeoBurns

Re: 5lb “penalty”... what is the cost?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2018, 09:24:02 pm »
All good thoughts.. I’m going to do my first pannier ride with the larger 2 man tent and see how it feels.  I’m a spinner so it’s a mater of wind resistance for me at this point... planning on a test over the Blue Ridge Parkway in July.  And engineers on the site... for performance cars we often talked about “sprung weight” vs in sprong... in my mind my body is “sprung”... if I lost 5 lbs, would that offset the mass of the tent?

As far as the rest of the plan... I have a thermarest neo pad and down quilt and MSR windburner stove/coffee press and 4 dehydrated meals (safety), packages of instant oatmeal, and empty water bladder -electronics 1030/lights front/rear... tools/tubes... one luxury folding saw for the fire... and a cigar case (to ward off mosquitos).  Clothing will be light (summer) + personal kit... testing to begin as soon as the bike arrives in early May. 

Thanks for the thoughts and direction. 🤓

Offline canalligators

Re: 5lb “penalty”... what is the cost?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2018, 09:42:31 pm »
Losing five pounds would offset the heavier tent, but the object isn't to lose five to get under some significant threshold.  The object is to reduce weight so you don't have to drag it all up the mountain passes.  You will expend a LOT of energy to lift that weight a couple thousand feet of elevation.

Another point, spinning doesn't mean weight is no longer a factor.  Select a cadence that works for your muscles and training.  But it won't really affect how much work you do to climb, though it will affect how fast you climb - which is going to be really slow on a long climb, anyway.

Five pounds of load has nothing to do with sprung or unsprung weight.  Unsprung weight only affects how well the wheels stick to the ground over bumps, which is not a concern in touring cycling.  What you might be thinking about is rotational mass (wheels) versus plain old mass that doesn't spin.  Even that doesn't matter much, because it mostly affects how fast the bike accelerates or decelerates.  And it doesn't matter much at three miles an hour on a long climb.

Do prioritize what you take.  Make sure you take whatever you need to stay safe and healthy, including getting a good night's sleep.  Don't take stuff just for diversions or fluff comfort, or a lot of tools you won't need - or (in my opinion) a lot of electronics.  But in the end, that decision is yours and you'll learn as you tour.  BTW, be prepared to send stuff home after a couple of weeks, many new tourers do.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 09:46:54 pm by canalligators »

Offline LeoBurns

Re: 5lb “penalty”... what is the cost?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2018, 09:56:45 pm »
Great advice... it’s exciting, looking forward to the adventure... next up (separate post) - panniers, frame bag, sweet roll... the combinations are numbing.  But I do enjoy chatting with the folks from Arkel.  “Canalligators” thanks for your note.

Offline CanvasAndSteel

Re: 5lb “penalty”... what is the cost?
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2018, 02:26:01 pm »
Enan's a good choice.  It's what I've purchased for cycling when I am in areas where I cannot use my hammock.  Compared to black label Hillebergs, the Enan is a three season tent.  Compared to other three season tents, it's an impregnable fortress.  I wouldn't worry about figuring out how to go from 3 pounds to half that, as the Enan is plenty light and will take any weather you will be running into on a bike tour.  Depending on where you are cycling, however, you might want to look into the mesh inner.

Offline hikerjer

Re: 5lb “penalty”... what is the cost?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2018, 10:20:15 pm »
I tend to agree that the 5 lbs won't make that much difference except on long and steep hills. I know Hilleberg makes a fine product but my experience has been they are a pretty heavy duty, almost expedition quality tent - not  a warm weather tent. They might be overkill for a bike tour.  If you plan camping in warm climes at all you might want to go with a warmer well ventilated, as well as lighter, tent.

Offline Goodaches

Re: 5lb “penalty”... what is the cost?
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2018, 11:17:17 pm »
Since I 've not seen them mentioned I'll share what we arrived at after extensive searching. Wife and I share a Zpacks Duplex tent. The cuben fiber tent for two along with carbon fiber poles for free standing option is 2 lbs. Fits nicely in a Blackburn seat bag under my wife's saddle. We each have our 1 lb quilts (Enlightened Equipment 950 down fill) in waterproof stuff sacks under our handle bars. We passed on any of the bikepacking  handlebar bags because all of them weighed at least twice as much as the quilts we would put in them! Our pads are also 1 lb each and are carried in a Salsa bag on fork cage. Bob Ibex behind me carries all the heavier but less bulky items (including food) for both of us.  Only thing we would order different would be to have ordered the Triplex tent so clothes could be in tent instead of vestibules. With the super light tents the rule of thumb (that we know now) is order the tent one person bigger than the number of occupants you're planning for.

Offline canalligators

Re: 5lb “penalty”... what is the cost?
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2018, 10:09:34 pm »
...“Canalligators” thanks for your note.

Every once in a while, that BS in Physics comes in handy.    ;)