Author Topic: Double fatality on Route 66 today  (Read 8501 times)

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Offline Ty0604

Re: Double fatality on Route 66 today
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2018, 07:31:59 pm »
Goodaches,
While I totally support more maintained USABLE bike paths, unfortunately a lot of cities in the USA, at least, 1) have laws that require cyclists to use the path and they typically do not distinguish as to where it is usable or not (glass littered, cracks, etc.), 2) discount the percentage of fault of the motorist if a path was available and not used (sort of like a biker getting hit while using the interstate in a metro area), and 3) seems to give motorists a "use the !@#$ path" attitude if one is nearby and not being used for whatever reason.  Granted the last is my perception but the first two are definitely and issue.  Also, who defines "usable" or "reasonable".  Typically the courts.

Pat's corollary example actually exists in Teton National Park I believe.  It is my understanding cyclists are not permitted to ride on the road that parallels the path north of Moose, WY to Jenny Lake.  While normally that is OK because the path is currently great, what happens if the path becomes unrideable for whatever reason (glass, stickers, severe cracks, etc.)?  What if you have to ride on the road to access a service?  Is that legal or not?

Again, I am generally for usable paths that are maintained. However, a lot of other issues pop up them, especially in our stupid litigious society.

I wasn’t aware of the rule in Grand Teton NP. I’ve ridden the road the two times I’ve been in the park. The path tends to be cluttered with groups of cyclist going 5mph as they diddy daddle along. Anyway thanks for pointing it out. I’ll have to check in case I’m ever back in the park again.
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Offline John Nettles

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Re: Double fatality on Route 66 today
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2018, 10:12:56 pm »
My info is about 2-3 years old.  This was from asking a Ranger as I was in the area after I had learned about the rule on CrazyGuyonabike.com. Granted, he sad they seldom enforce it but my previous point is that they legally do prohibit it, at least 2 years ago they did, so having a bunch of paths can create unexpected outcomes.
John

Offline Ty0604

Re: Double fatality on Route 66 today
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2018, 10:19:55 pm »
My info is about 2-3 years old.  This was from asking a Ranger as I was in the area after I had learned about the rule on CrazyGuyonabike.com. Granted, he sad they seldom enforce it but my previous point is that they legally do prohibit it, at least 2 years ago they did, so having a bunch of paths can create unexpected outcomes.
John

That’s good to know. I love MUPs better than roads but I don’t feel my speeds (15-20mph) are safe for MUPs when they’re filled with other people so I take the road.
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Offline Goodaches

Re: Double fatality on Route 66 today
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2018, 11:26:19 pm »
Alright, now I think I see where I'm being misunderstood - probably a regional difference in terminology. In Great Lakes states, Michigan in particular, those asphalt paths that are sorta parallel to the road shoulder, used like sidewalks, are called Safety Paths. I wasn't referring to those, I don't use those myself because, well,, Safety Paths aren't safe for fast moving cyclists. They're offset from the shoulder just far enough that cyclists are not in the line of attention of motorists emerging from cross streets. Also, the bushes and evergreens along the "Safety" Path prevent cyclists from seeing drivers coming out on a driveway and vice versa. Neither of my prior posts were intended to embrace these dogwalking, baby stroller pushing, "Safety" Paths for cycle commuting or touring. What I was referring to are most commonly Rail Trails. I was referring to long distance routes that can take us through many communities. A few examples being Great Allegheny Passage, C&O Canal, or Pierre Marquette Trail. The Detroit Metro area isn't a premier cycling area but is on a good start. A cyclist can make a hundred mile circumnavigation of the outer metro area by connecting rail trails, park paths, and a non-motorized pathway that is on an easement offset from I-275 and separated from the expressway by space, embankments, and concrete barriers. Cyclists can get off of the rail trail or expressway easement at least every mile to branch off to whatever destination they're heading for. More of these is what cyclists need. "Safety" Paths are for the benefit of pedestrians.

Offline John Nettles

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Re: Double fatality on Route 66 today
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2018, 10:26:10 am »
Goodaches, even Rail Trails can be decreed by law that cyclists MUST use.  Most Rail Trails are good, but not all.  The Teton Path is not a safey path, it is a winding path set up to 100 yards away from the road (but mostly 5-10 yards).   Go a Google Maps Streetview on NW of Moose, WY to see the path to see what I mean. It is not a rail trail but it is a totally separate path, and a pretty good one.

Again, my point is while I totally support more cycle paths (safety, trail, "lanes" only separated by a line, etc.), there can be unintentional and potentially unwanted outcomes so be a little careful what you wish for as it only takes a few legislators with an attitude against cyclists to make life a pain for us.  Case in point is the town of Black Hawk, CO, (on the ACA Great Parks Route) which banned all cyclists on all roads in town a few years ago. It took a couple of years to overturn this outrageous law but banning cyclists can be done, especially if no one contests it legally.

Best, John

Offline jamawani

Re: Double fatality on Route 66 today
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2018, 02:23:09 pm »
If you want to argue about bike paths - - please open a new thread.
This thread should remain focused upon the deaths of the two German cyclists.

Offline Ty0604

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