Author Topic: Newbie Road Touring Need Help with Gear Questions  (Read 709 times)

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Offline John Nelson

Re: Newbie Road Touring Need Help with Gear Questions
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2018, 09:59:53 pm »
BTW, it always seemed to me as if pressure bled out faster with co2.  So I found I needed to refill more often when I used it around town.
I know that that is the conventional wisdom, and several people have told me I should replace the CO2 with air as soon as possible, but a chemist has told me that theory says CO2 should leak out more slowly than air.

Offline dmeans2anend

Re: Newbie Road Touring Need Help with Gear Questions
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2018, 12:19:03 am »

Thanks everybody for all the experienced feedback on pumps.

I will definitely pack a hand pump then.

I like the Lezyne Micro Floor Drive HP as well. 
I was torn between the Lezyne and the Topeak Morph.
Aesthetically, I like the Lezyne better but I read mix reviews.
Is it hard to get to the higher tire pressure?

Do you think it is worth extra $ for the built in gauge with the pump? 
Or do you just go by feel for the pressure?


Offline Inge

Re: Newbie Road Touring Need Help with Gear Questions
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2018, 02:23:07 am »
+1 for co2 - would not rely on them. Have the morph road pump myself and it fits nicely on the seat tube.


Offline staehpj1

Re: Newbie Road Touring Need Help with Gear Questions
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2018, 07:04:34 am »
I know that that is the conventional wisdom, and several people have told me I should replace the CO2 with air as soon as possible, but a chemist has told me that theory says CO2 should leak out more slowly than air.
Yes it has been said quite a few times that the co2 molecules are larger and should bleed out slower, but my experience with it is the opposite.  Around home, mountain biking every day, when I used co2 to fill up the tire was noticeably lower the very next day.  I topped off with a pump and it took a few days before I noticed lower pressure.  I observed this a number of times.

I never saw a good explanation why co2 did not stay in the tire better than air (based on molecule size it ought to do something like 20% better than air).  A quick google search turned up a lot of articles from reliable sources that said they had the same observation as I did, but no explanation why until I saw this link:
http://www.velonews.com/2009/02/bikes-and-tech/technical-qa-with-lennard-zinn-large-molecules-and-short-frames_87175
It turns out that co2 is soluble in butyl rubber and therefore does not bleed out at the normal permeation rates, but can go through the tube MUCH faster.

Offline Pat Lamb

Re: Newbie Road Touring Need Help with Gear Questions
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2018, 07:34:13 am »
Have the morph road pump myself and it fits nicely on the seat tube.

Road morph also fits nicely on the chainstay.  The zip tie mounts let you adjust the clocking -- angle around the stay you put the mount -- to fit your particular situation.  Just make sure the pump head doesn't contact the tire.

Offline RonK

Newbie Road Touring Need Help with Gear Questions
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2018, 09:06:23 am »
I like the Lezyne Micro Floor Drive HP as well. 

Aesthetically, I like the Lezyne better but I read mix reviews.
Is it hard to get to the higher tire pressure?
Presumably you have a touring bike. How high a pressure are you putting in the tires? Around 50-60 psi is all that is necessary in my 32mm tires - almost any pump can easily achieve that.
There are two versions of the Lezyne Micro Floor Drive - HP (high pressure) and HV (high volume). You have to get the right one.
I have the pump with the built in pressure gauge. I don’t find it very accurate and use a separate digital gauge - but I think Lezyne now have a Micro Floor Drive with a digital gauge.
Finally, touring is not racing. So what if it takes a few moments more to inflate your tires. What’s the rush.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

Offline dmeans2anend

Re: Newbie Road Touring Need Help with Gear Questions
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2018, 09:11:23 pm »
Hey Inge,  Thanks for the photo!

Hey RonK: 

I want a high pressure pump because I also road ride with my carbon fiber road bike so I was just hoping to buy 1 pump for touring as well as regular rides at home.

"So what if it takes a few moments more to inflate your tires. What’s the rush."  -  Not so much about a timing issue but more about ... sour arms!   :D

Offline RonK

Re: Newbie Road Touring Need Help with Gear Questions
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2018, 06:42:15 am »
Hey RonK: 

I want a high pressure pump because I also road ride with my carbon fiber road bike so I was just hoping to buy 1 pump for touring as well as regular rides at home.

"So what if it takes a few moments more to inflate your tires. What’s the rush."  -  Not so much about a timing issue but more about ... sour arms!   :D
Sour arms? Well you'll just have to suck it up I think. High pressure pumps have small pistons/barrels and of necessity require more pump strokes. High volume pumps have larger pistons and barrels so fewer strokes but a lot more effort and will really sour your arms.  ;)
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

Offline dmeans2anend

Re: Newbie Road Touring Need Help with Gear Questions
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2018, 09:39:20 am »
Hey RonK: 

I want a high pressure pump because I also road ride with my carbon fiber road bike so I was just hoping to buy 1 pump for touring as well as regular rides at home.

"So what if it takes a few moments more to inflate your tires. What’s the rush."  -  Not so much about a timing issue but more about ... sour arms!   :D
Sour arms? Well you'll just have to suck it up I think. High pressure pumps have small pistons/barrels and of necessity require more pump strokes. High volume pumps have larger pistons and barrels so fewer strokes but a lot more effort and will really sour your arms.  ;)


LOL... you caught me.
I must be dyslexic!

I meant to type "sore" arms.... 
But, in hindsight "sour arms" seem appropriate too ... 
High lactic acid = Low pH = "sour" arms  ;)

Offline dmeans2anend

Re: Newbie Road Touring Need Help with Gear Questions
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2018, 12:34:55 pm »

Ok.  New question and it's been discussed in other posts but I'm still a little undecided.

What tires to use?

My situation:


Tour - Pacific Coast Route (Astoria to SF and possibly all the way to San Diego)
Bike - Titanium Motobecane Fantom Cross Cyclocross bike (w/ gearing conversion) - 20 lbs
Gear - ~ 30 to 35 lbs (including racks & panniers)
Water ~ 4 lbs
Me - on a good day (108 lbs)

Total weight ~ 160 to 170 lbs.

I've read Marathon Supremes are good touring tires but they seem rather heavy with higher rolling resistance.

I currently ride with Continental GP 4000S II and love them!!!  Unfortunately, they only go up to 28mm.

I think 32mm would be better for my trip since it'll be a little smoother ride.

Wondering if I should go with Marathon Supreme or Continental GP 4 seasons since the 4 seasons come in 32mm. 

Rolling resistance on the Marathon Supreme is 19.1 W vs Continental GP 4 seasons is 17.2 W.
Weight on the Marathon Supreme is 432 grams vs Continental GP 4 seasons is 215 grams.

I'm leaning towards the Continental GP 4 seasons since it has lower rolling resistance and nearly half the weight.

Any comments or feedback?

Offline Inge

Re: Newbie Road Touring Need Help with Gear Questions
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2018, 01:52:35 am »
Go for Schwalbe almotion - am very happy with them.

Offline dmeans2anend

Re: Newbie Road Touring Need Help with Gear Questions
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2018, 11:10:18 am »
VittoriaRandonneur
Have good puncture resistance and r lighter than the marathons. I used both and had good luck with both but my Vittoria were worn out after 3000 miles and the Marathons were still going strong. but they cost a whole lot less too...


Thanks for your feedback.
However,  I just checked the Vittoria Randonneur on Bicycle Rolling Resistance website. 

Here's the scope:

Test Summary
Conclusion: 2 / 5 Not Recommended
Weight: 598 grams
Rolling Resistance: 32.4 watts
Puncture Resistance: 21 / 4

They're actually a lot heavier than the Marathon Supreme and extremely high rolling resistance per the tests.

Offline Pat Lamb

Re: Newbie Road Touring Need Help with Gear Questions
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2018, 02:41:30 pm »
Total weight ~ 160 to 170 lbs.

...

I currently ride with Continental GP 4000S II and love them!!!  Unfortunately, they only go up to 28mm.

I think 32mm would be better for my trip since it'll be a little smoother ride.

At your weight, I'd think the Conti GPs at 28 would be fine.  You're not dealing with Kansas and eastern Colorado expansion joints for which you'd want 3-6" tire width.

Most tires go up in weight a fair bit from 28 to 32, and it's not just the additional size.  The bigger tires have thicker sidewalls, which don't absorb road shock as well as thinner sidewalls on the skinnier tires.  They're also more likely to have thicker tread, which is good for puncture protection, so that would be the tradeoff.  Do you want better puncture protection badly enough to put up with additional weight and stiffness?

Offline dmeans2anend

Re: Newbie Road Touring Need Help with Gear Questions
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2018, 02:58:41 pm »
Total weight ~ 160 to 170 lbs.

...

I currently ride with Continental GP 4000S II and love them!!!  Unfortunately, they only go up to 28mm.

I think 32mm would be better for my trip since it'll be a little smoother ride.

At your weight, I'd think the Conti GPs at 28 would be fine.  You're not dealing with Kansas and eastern Colorado expansion joints for which you'd want 3-6" tire width.

Most tires go up in weight a fair bit from 28 to 32, and it's not just the additional size.  The bigger tires have thicker sidewalls, which don't absorb road shock as well as thinner sidewalls on the skinnier tires.  They're also more likely to have thicker tread, which is good for puncture protection, so that would be the tradeoff.  Do you want better puncture protection badly enough to put up with additional weight and stiffness?



Thanks so much for the feedback Pat.

I definitely didn't know that ... "The bigger tires have thicker sidewalls, which don't absorb road shock as well as thinner sidewalls on the skinnier tires." 

I was always under the general impression that "bigger tires = smoother ride".    I guess from all the touring blogs that I've read that was the conclusion that I derived at.... 

Just so I understand clearly, are 'conventional touring' folks going with larger tires because the total weight of their system requires it  (assume 100+ lbs + 200 lb rider = 300 lb total) and because skinny tires can't handle it?

I definitely don't mind sacrificing some puncture protection for lighter weight and a smoother ride.  Knock on wood.  This statement is from someone who has not had a lot of flats in the past 10 years of road cycling.

Offline dmeans2anend

Re: Newbie Road Touring Need Help with Gear Questions
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2018, 03:06:57 pm »
Go for Schwalbe almotion - am very happy with them.

Thanks for the recommendation.
They seem like great tires for conventional touring but seems rather heavy though at Weight: 629 grams which is even higher than the Marathon Supremes.

Since I'll be going with a fairly lite setup, I'm hoping for more of a road tire than a touring tire but want smoother ride.