Author Topic: Stopping vs Rolling Thru Stop Signs ??  (Read 1129 times)

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Offline Judy Phillips

Stopping vs Rolling Thru Stop Signs ??
« on: May 17, 2020, 03:20:41 pm »
The bikers here are getting Berated for ignoring stop signs. There are some riders who blast thru, which is both rude and illegal. Most of us slow, maybe tap a foot on the pavement and roll thru with no traffic. I've always felt it was safer than all the starting & stopping, particularly with more than 25 stop signs for a 20 mile ride. I'd heard yrs. ago that 3 states permit rolling stops for bikes. Does anyone know of any research on this that's available ??

Offline jrswenberger

Re: Stopping vs Rolling Thru Stop Signs ??
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2020, 08:37:26 pm »
The bikers here are getting Berated for ignoring stop signs. There are some riders who blast thru, which is both rude and illegal. Most of us slow, maybe tap a foot on the pavement and roll thru with no traffic. I've always felt it was safer than all the starting & stopping, particularly with more than 25 stop signs for a 20 mile ride. I'd heard yrs. ago that 3 states permit rolling stops for bikes. Does anyone know of any research on this that's available ??

I don't know of any research but Oregon recently passed it's own 'Idaho Stop' law. Cyclists are now allowed to continue through stop signs when it is safe to do so. This does NOT apply to stop LIGHTS however...just thought to clarify for the Darwin candidates out there!

Jay
Enjoy the ride!
ACA Life Member 368

Online John Nelson

Re: Stopping vs Rolling Thru Stop Signs ??
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2020, 09:34:41 pm »
In Colorado, the “Idaho Safety Stop” is law in Breckinridge, Dillon, Summit County, Aspen and Thornton. There is considerable research (from a number of organizations — mostly cycling advocacy groups) that show this improves safety, but not everybody buys it (clearly). A number of other states have passed similar laws.

Offline froze

Re: Stopping vs Rolling Thru Stop Signs ??
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2020, 12:48:30 pm »
According to the vast majority of states a bicycle or horse and buggy, is required by law to follow the same rules as cars do, if you roll through a stop sign you could get a ticket in all states except for two or three.  Of course some places ignore that law in regards to bicycles, but know this, if you roll through a stop and are hit by a car, and there are witnesses you will be at fault, even in states that allow for you do that. 

I know what you all are thinking, "well I look both ways and roll through a stop, I'm safe", well most of the time that's true, but I had a friend who had been riding bikes for about 25 years and was really into it.  He was riding out in the country where he had a unobstructed view of a 4 way intersection in all directions, the intersection was a 2 way stop, he had to stop, but he never did, this one day he didn't see the car for some reason that killed him.

Personally I think police need to clamp down hard on cyclists, they do all sorts of insane stuff, like weave in and out of traffic cutting off cars, the cars honk and they get the finger from the cyclists.  I ride bikes, and I drive cars, I see the crap that a lot of cyclists do, and these just aren't street bums on bicycles, these are guys in expensive kits riding expensive bikes pulling all kinds of stunts and pissin off drivers.  We can set here and talk about in nice terms how we as cyclists need to be courteous to motorists, but at the end of the day most are not, so since we can't seem to play nice with motorists than we need to police to help us in that regard!

I know you all are going to be writing hate posts towards me, that's ok because that tells me you're one of the bad riders and you don't want be punished for your bad behavior.  Problem is your bad behavior is getting yourself injured or killed.  Last year I witnessed a cyclist running a red light, he was hit and died later at the hospital, I had the unfortunate task of telling the cops he ran the light.  While some of you think that only hurts the cyclist, no it doesn't, even if it's the cyclist fault and the driver isn't hurt it did hurt the drivers mind, something they'll never forget, it's not like they hit and killed a dog, a human is a whole different thing.

I prefer that cyclists follow the same laws as cars, as it has been for many years.  Now I admit, I will come up to a stop, but this is usually a 4 way stop, and I will roll through if no one is there, but I also know it's against the law and if cop wanted to ticket me for it he has that right.  I also will come up to a red light and stop, those darn sensors in the road won't register a bike, so I'm not going to set there for 20 minutes waiting, if the traffic is light I will wait for a clearing then go even though it's against the law, if the traffic is heavy and there is a walk button I will go to the sidewalk and press the button. 

So I'm not some ogar telling you all you need to wait indefinitely for a light because it's the law, but to run a stop or light on a regular bases and motorists are having to slow or stop for you just because you think your cyclist that's above the law needs to stop.

A lot of cyclist complain the don't get any respect from motorists, I hate to tell you but if you respect motorists by following the same laws they do, and not go off having road rage on some driver then they'll start respecting you back.  When I'm driving I'm always aware of cyclists, and I take extra precautions around them, but it pisses me off too when I have to slam on my brakes because some moron is weaving between moving cars which causes others to slam on their brakes, or running lights and stop signs, and then these damn cyclists have the gall to flip me off when they're the ones that caused the problem!

I asked a local cop why they didn't ticket cyclists for doing stupid stuff or running at night with no lights or reflectors even, and what he said is shocking, he said because it makes their paper work easier, there is no doubt who's fault it is, even if the cyclist is not at fault in accordance to traffic laws but is running without lights and reflectors at night, it's automatically the cyclist fault.  Again it's easier paperwork.  I'm telling you what a cop said in our town.  In my state it is a law to be using lights and reflectors at night, you cannot ride at night with just reflectors.

I know not all cyclists are bad, but I would dare to say that about 75% of them are!  I know this isn't just a problem where I live, I've lived and drove and rode in California, and rode my bike or driven my car in other states and it's the same thing no matter where I go.

Here comes the fireworks.

Offline Pat Lamb

Re: Stopping vs Rolling Thru Stop Signs ??
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2020, 01:12:27 pm »
Troll-ometer: 8 out of 10.

Offline Judy Phillips

Re: Stopping vs Rolling Thru Stop Signs ??
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2020, 03:39:31 pm »
Thanks, everyone for the info. Here was my answer to one opinion writer, for better or worse:
First, I'd like to admit to being an avid cyclist, frequently riding on Whispering Wind.  Do I coast through stop signs ?  With no cars in sight, it's the safest way to cycle so I do. There have been numerous studies backing this up, mostly sponsored by the biking industry so considered suspect by almost any non-cyclist. . However, several states have acted legally based on this research, the first being Idaho.  An “Idaho stop” law, passed in 1983, allows a bicyclist to treat a stop sign as a yield sign. In June of 2019, Oregon became the most recent state to approve this type of stop under Senate Bill 998, specifying in detail when a cyclist can enter an intersection without coming to a complete stop. Texas has discussed such a law, I understand, but failed to pass it.

The point at which you stop or start a bicycle is one of the more common times bike mishaps occur, particularly when riding in a group.  As an octogenarian I'm trying in every way to keep each bone in one piece and all skin on my knees and elbows,  Both cycling and walking bring great joy to many of us and an increased ability to eat. My favorite ride is into downtown Georgetown to a bakery.  I'm just trying to be as safe as possible while doing it.

I do see cyclists blasting through stop signs at full speed with cars in the vicinity. This is illegal, dangerous for all concerned and rude to boot. Not all of these scofflaws are from Sun City, but they will certainly slow down any passage of an 'Idaho Stop' type law in Texas.  Tickets might stop some of this behavior.

Offline froze

Re: Stopping vs Rolling Thru Stop Signs ??
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2020, 05:18:30 pm »
Be careful, you might be the next one called a troll master as I was for the same thing you said.

Offline raybo

Re: Stopping vs Rolling Thru Stop Signs ??
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2020, 09:44:49 am »
They tried giving tickets to people riding bikes and not stopping at stop signs in San Francisco. In order to show how this might not be the best idea (and as a protest), all the bike riders took the lane and stopped at every stop sign. There were long lines of both cars and bikers on the streets and the car drivers were all pissed off at the long waits at these signs.

I ride the same route most days. I know which stop signs have traffic on them and which ones don't. I always slow down when I come to these signs. I stop (or slow down to the same speed as the cars who roll through them) at the ones with traffic. The ones that are generally empty, I roll through slowly.
Visit the on-line bike touring archive at www.biketouringtips.com

Offline hikerjer

Re: Stopping vs Rolling Thru Stop Signs ??
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2020, 03:41:45 pm »
The "Idaho stop" seems reasonable to me.  Not much chance here, though. The current Republican candidate for Secretary of State has supported and proposed that no bicycle should be allowed on any state highway that doesn't have a three foot shoulder, that all bicyclists pay a yearly fee of $25 dollars to ride on any pubic street/road since they don't pay taxes  (? - I pay taxes) and that any non-resident bringing a bicycle over state lines must buy a special sticker and apply it to their bike to show that they have paid they're share to the state before they enter the state.

Offline Pat Lamb

Re: Stopping vs Rolling Thru Stop Signs ??
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2020, 04:58:18 pm »
hikerjer, where do you live?  I think I need to write your state Chamber of Commerce to let them know I'll find another state to vacation if any of that goes through -- with a note of how much I've spend in a couple of states...

Offline froze

Re: Stopping vs Rolling Thru Stop Signs ??
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2020, 06:21:06 pm »
Not sure why a state would require a fee to ride a bike on a road, a bike can't even remotely damage a road like cars and trucks can; plus most cyclists own cars so they're already paying taxes via gasoline to cover road maintenance. I understand, and agree that states need to figure out a way to charge cyclists some sort of fee to help cover the cost of bike lanes and paths.  I envision that as being a ONE time fee (not yearly or bi yearly) at the time of purchase, call it a registration fee, call it a tax, it would be based on a percentage, say 5% of the sale price of the bike, that cost would also go to register the serial number at the state in case of theft. 

I know some of you are groaning and moaning over what I said, but is it fair for the vast majority of people who drive cars and don't ride a bicycle at all to be paying for our luxury of having paths and lanes installed?  I'm sorry, I just don't think that's fair, we need to pay our way, at least partially.

This could be a fair amount of money coming in too, because about 3 million bikes a year are sold (more this year due to C19); the average price of a bike is $673 in 2014, at 5% that could have been almost 101 billion dollars coming in each year to support bicycle infrastructure!  And for what cost? just $33 on average to the consumer?  That's nothing!  But think of how much better our bicycling infrastructure would be if that were to happen, and combine that with other sources of revenue, wow, what a major financial help that would be for us.


Offline thumanm

Re: Stopping vs Rolling Thru Stop Signs ??
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2020, 09:06:57 am »
In most states bicycles are viewed legally as vehicles.  Therefore you can get stopped for speeding (which I have) rolling thru a stop sign and failure to yield and so on.  Including but not limited to DUI and DWI. Now if there is no traffic and I am approaching an intersection with clear views I do slow but roll thru.  I actually had a state trooper stop me and thank me for slowing so that i could stop if requried.  Then as we are saying good by a car got tboned at the same intersection because they did not stop.  Evidently the troopers car was blocking the on coming car.

I understand stopping may have it's own issues but more often than not it will save your life.

But just as a vehicle I will take the lane when appropaite but keep to the right when appropiate. 
The only near miss with a car that I have had in 40 years was my fault.

Offline TCS

Re: Stopping vs Rolling Thru Stop Signs ??
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2020, 03:22:59 pm »
I'm not aware of any place that requires that 'stop forward motion' last for a certain minimum length of time, or that requires dismounting as part of the legal definition of a stop.
"My name is Pither.  I am at present on a cycling tour of the North Cornwall area taking in Bude and..."

Offline TCS

Re: Stopping vs Rolling Thru Stop Signs ??
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2020, 03:57:22 pm »
Thread drift:  there's a general misconception in America that the streets, roads and highways are 100% paid for with motor vehicle fees and fuel taxes.  Many believe cyclists pay no transportation-related taxes.  These beliefs are not true.

Where I live, city streets are paid for with city sales and property taxes.  County roads are paid for with county sales and property taxes.  While motor vehicle fees and fuel taxes go into state highways, they are also subsidized by state sales and property taxes.

I read that some 80% of local law enforcement and 2/3rds of state law enforcement is involved with transportation, and those endeavors are funded by general taxes (and fines) rather than motor vehicle fees.  In the aftermath of accidents, ambulance services and emergency room efforts for those without insurance are covered by municipalities and counties, paid for with general revenues.  No motor vehicle fees go into these charity services, either.

You can check out your own jurisdiction, but I believe you'll find a similar situation, with perhaps the addition or substitution of local and state income taxes.

If a bored, crusading legislator wants to go after a tax freeloader, may I suggest electric vehicle owners who pay no state or federal fuel taxes at the gas pump?  :)

Fun fact:  In the USA, the only 'federal' highways are found in national parks and on military bases.  Interstate highways are in fact a category of state highway.
"My name is Pither.  I am at present on a cycling tour of the North Cornwall area taking in Bude and..."

Offline froze

Re: Stopping vs Rolling Thru Stop Signs ??
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2020, 09:49:40 pm »
Gas tax:

http://www.capoliticalreview.com/capoliticalnewsandviews/state-to-use-19-million-of-gas-tax-money-for-bike-paths-instead-of-streets/

https://www.libertyheadlines.com/states-raise-gas-tax-misc-expenses/

Auto registration fees:

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/2863550-181/new-state-law-allows-surcharge

Federal highway trust funds:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/taxing-for-highways-paying-for-bike-lanes-1432591905

Yes, property taxes do pay for paths, but since roughly 13% of the American adult population rides bikes and use path and lanes, then that means that a huge majority of homeowners are paying property taxes for bike lanes and paths that they don't ever use.  Is that fair for homeowners?  Especially considering that a lot of public schools, police and fire agencies are suffering financially, and they rely on homeowner taxes to get funding.

This is why I suggested a one time registration fee, a fee by the way that some states are beginning to do, a fee that would help defer some of the cost of cities to install and maintain those paths and lanes.