Author Topic: Mask mandate - National Parks, Monuments, Forests  (Read 827 times)

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Offline TCS

Mask mandate - National Parks, Monuments, Forests
« on: January 26, 2021, 02:19:07 pm »
Masks now required while cycling in/through National Parks, Monuments and Forests*?  I think so.  What's your take?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-protecting-the-federal-workforce-and-requiring-mask-wearing/



*on Forest Service roads, not public highways.
"My name is Pither.  I am at present on a cycling tour of the North Cornwall area taking in Bude and..."

Offline staehpj1

Re: Mask mandate - National Parks, Monuments, Forests
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2021, 04:19:39 pm »
Masks now required while cycling in/through National Parks, Monuments and Forests*?  I think so.  What's your take?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-protecting-the-federal-workforce-and-requiring-mask-wearing/



*on Forest Service roads, not public highways.
Maybe, but it didn't seem clear cut to me.

Offline Pat Lamb

Re: Mask mandate - National Parks, Monuments, Forests
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2021, 04:21:51 pm »
The presidential proclamation isn't terribly clear, is it?  Might be worth an email to the Secretary of the Interior (covers national parks and monuments too, IIRC) and Secretary of Agriculture (forests), asking them to specify masks required for persons within 6-10' of other people who don't live with them outdoors.  I don't remember if Interior also covers BLM.

As a practical matter, I'd ride through all the above with a mask in a baggie in my jersey pocket or bag bar.  If I were stopped, I'd turn around and let the cop see me pulling the baggie out of my pocket as they approached.  Only the a-holes are going to give you grief on an open road.


Offline John Nettles

Re: Mask mandate - National Parks, Monuments, Forests
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2021, 09:17:48 pm »
<begin rant> As the spouse of a physician who personally deals with covid patients every working day since February, I am a bit more strongly biased in my thinking since she is truly a "front-line worker". 

First, scientifically, masks (other than N-95 or N-100 masks) do NOT stop you from getting the virus.  All masks (from N-100 to a mask-less face shield) do NOT prevent you from giving the virus (assuming you have it) but DO reduce the chances of you spreading the virus (again, assuming you have it).  So even if a cloth mask, bandana, "surgical mask", only reduces a measly 10%, that is potentially 10% less people who obtain the virus, 10% less hospitalized, and 10% less die from.  Ten percent is probably a conservative figure as no study has yet to pinpoint the effectiveness (too hard to do in a non-controlled study) but the thinking is around 35%-40%.

Therefore, to me, it is worth the hassles of wearing a mask in order to save lives.  Even if we could have just 1% fewer deaths, that would be 4,250 (as of today) fewer deaths just in the USA if all people would just wear the mask. 

So my point is wear the damn mask and quit bitching about. I am saying this to everyone and no one in particular so don't get riled up thinking I am speaking about you personally (talking to you Neil over at CGOAB).

To me, a more important question is when should we be able to stop wearing the masks?  Is it after all those that want to be vaccinated are vaccinated (even though those that refuse are still vulnerable)?  Is when the virus is entirely gone so the un-vaccinated don't get sick, even if they refused a shot?  When the politicians on both sides think there is nothing left to gain by being for/against masks and both side actually follow the science instead of what sounds good?  Is it a set date, ramifications be damned?  If you have been vaccinated, should you be able to be mask-free?  Should you have a "scarlet letter" to show you have or have not been vaccinated?  What about traveling after you are vaccinated?  Can the government shut down business that offer services only to those vaccinated or is that discrimination? 

So just saying we are to wear a mask in Yellowstone really doesn't cut it for me.

Thanks China for giving the world this headache. <end rant; go ride>

Offline staehpj1

Re: Mask mandate - National Parks, Monuments, Forests
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2021, 07:23:48 am »
John, just to be clear...  Are you saying we should wear a mask at all times while riding even when not around or with others?

Personally I have stayed home to a large extent throughout the pandemic with very few trips to anywhere other than several times a day walks where I stay my distance from folks I meet.  I do speak at some length to friends and neighbors that I meet, but we are outside and maintain 6' of distance.

I haven't been motivated to ride much, but if I did, I'd probably ride when and where I could stay away from people and carry a mask in case I needed to be near someone.

I had hoped that the vaccine would allow relaxing my approach some (I get the second dose Saturday), but it sounds like the same precautions are in order at least until late summer at best.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 09:01:46 am by staehpj1 »

Offline John Nettles

Re: Mask mandate - National Parks, Monuments, Forests
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2021, 09:55:05 am »
John, just to be clear...  Are you saying we should wear a mask at all times while riding even when not around or with others?
Great point. My ranting got me.  I personally do not think you need to wear a mask while riding, especially solo.  Maybe if you were riding a MUP with lots of other people on it.  If in a tight group ride; probably just best to avoid the ride.

You also make a good point about relaxing the restrictions after the vaccine.  I personally think that those that have had both shots should be able to relax as they are not liable to get severely sick if they do contract the virus.  The vaccine is basically 100% effective in that not one of the 32k person study who contracted the virus after both shots (about 5%) died from the virus.  One of those people was hospitalized and fully recovered; the rest had "flu like" symptoms and fully recovered.  Whether that study was accurate on a global scale remains to be seen but to me, we are killing the economy by shutting it down for months and months though I totally get the thinking behind it so I am in favor of doing away with the restrictions for those that have received both vaccines (two weeks after the second shot).  However, the virus is out of the barn now and unless you do a China-style shutdown (can't leave home at all except for groceries, medicine) then any semi-shutdown won't work. Of course, if they say those who have had the shots are exempt, then a lot of the non-vaccinated will lie about it or get offended they are "discriminated" against so the mask mandates will probably stay.

I personally still ride, usually solo or in a small 2-3 person group.  I always wear a mask (have since late Feb.) when in any public indoor area and will probably continue to do so until most get vaccinated.  Remember though I have lots of comorbidities (immunosuppressed due transplant; diabetic (former Pepsi-holic), high blood pressure, and a lung-issue) so I am much more at risk than probably you at 70.

BTW, the stronger your immune system the stronger the reaction.  Do not plan on doing anything the day after your shot.  Then all is well.

NOTE:  A new study came out today that says it MAY be better to delay taking take ibprofen after you get the vaccine.

In a study published in the peer-reviewed Journal of Virology, researchers found nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) such as ibuprofen can reduce the production of antibodies and impact other aspects of the immune response to SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.
Researchers said the study's results raised the possibility that pain relievers such as ibuprofen could alter the immune response to the COVID-19 vaccine.
Dr. Colleen Kelley, an associate professor of medicine at Emory University School of Medicine who was not affiliated with the study, speculates this could be caused by reducing inflammation triggered by the immune system. 
“The immune system generates a response through controlled inflammation. (Pain relievers) can reduce the production of inflammatory mediators,” she said. “So, this is the potential mechanism for a reduced immune response to vaccination if you take these medications.”
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 02:52:04 pm by John Nettles »

Offline staehpj1

Re: Mask mandate - National Parks, Monuments, Forests
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2021, 10:39:23 am »
From what I have read it isn't clear whether the vaccine prevents infections and possible spreading of the virus or just protects us from getting sick with it.  I have read recommendations that social distancing and mask precautions continue after the vaccine.  We do plan to get out more this summer than we have been, but expect it will still be Florida and that we will still avoid being close to other people for the most part.  Florida has a lot of parks.  There are awesome creeks, marshes, rivers, keys, mangroves, beaches, springs, and even some caverns and we have only scratched the surface so far.  There are also some nice trails.  We have a canoe and I am also building a pirogue.  I expect we will do a lot of nearby exploring this year, much of it checking out state parks.  Some of the rivers are suited to overnight or longer camping trips.  My wife no longer rides but will still paddle a canoe especially tandem.  We even have a nice lake a few minutes from the house.

We hope that by next year we will be able to venture out and visit a lot of the National Parks.  There are still quite a few I have not been to and my wife has not been to may at all.  At that point we are thinking of some small travel trailer, pickup camper,  or camper van.  We used to love our old (1969) VW Camp Mobile Special.  It was one of the pop top models and well used when we got it.  I put a new engine in it and we used it until it rusted to pieces.

I could do a bit of supported touring when we venture out with a camper.  Motor vehicles and all that they involve kind of kill the joy of a tour for me though so I may or may not.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 11:01:55 am by staehpj1 »

Offline John Nettles

Re: Mask mandate - National Parks, Monuments, Forests
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2021, 12:00:57 pm »
From what I have read it isn't clear whether the vaccine prevents infections and possible spreading of the virus or just protects us from getting sick with it.  I have read recommendations that social distancing and mask precautions continue after the vaccine.
You are correct in that the vaccine is not 100% effective against preventing infections (see above).  But from all that my better half has read from the journals and heard from colleagues is that it is about 95% effective. Also, while it does not totally prevent, it does reduce the severity of any illness if you do get the virus. The recommendations for social distancing, etc. are because not everyone has or will get the vaccine thus allowing the virus to continue for a while. Again, though, once you have both, you personally should be fairly well protected against the virus.

Offline HikeBikeCook

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Re: Mask mandate - National Parks, Monuments, Forests
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2021, 01:27:10 pm »
Biden said you have to wear a mask at all times on all federal lands. Of course, he and his family are exempt since they did a photo shoot that night at the Lincoln Memorial.

I think the intention was mask always no exceptions, even if you are the only person for 50 miles. If a tree in a forest falls and there is no ear to hear it.....?
Long Distance Hiker - AT Thru-hike 2007
Long distance cyclist - multi day tours - TDF tour Alpes 2005
Surly Disc Trucker, Lightspeed Classic, Scott Scale, Klein Mantra Comp. First touring bike Peugeot U08 - 1966

Offline DarrenBnYYC

Re: Mask mandate - National Parks, Monuments, Forests
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2021, 04:01:11 pm »
Masks now required while cycling in/through National Parks, Monuments and Forests*?  I think so.  What's your take?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-protecting-the-federal-workforce-and-requiring-mask-wearing/

The key statement in that briefing is that mask use must follow CDC guidelines on federal lands. I don't think the CDC mandates mask use outdoors unless physical distancing is impossible.

Offline TCS

Re: Mask mandate - National Parks, Monuments, Forests
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2021, 04:32:06 pm »
As a practical matter, I'd ride through all the above with a mask in a baggie in my jersey pocket or bag bar.  If I were stopped, I'd turn around and let the cop see me pulling the baggie out of my pocket as they approached.  Only the a-holes are going to give you grief on an open road.

Calm, rational and reasonable.  What are you doing on the Internet?   ;D
"My name is Pither.  I am at present on a cycling tour of the North Cornwall area taking in Bude and..."

Offline Pat Lamb

Re: Mask mandate - National Parks, Monuments, Forests
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2021, 08:42:35 am »
As a practical matter, I'd ride through all the above with a mask in a baggie in my jersey pocket or bag bar.  If I were stopped, I'd turn around and let the cop see me pulling the baggie out of my pocket as they approached.  Only the a-holes are going to give you grief on an open road.

Calm, rational and reasonable.  What are you doing on the Internet?   ;D

Just visiting.  :D

Offline BikeliciousBabe

Re: Mask mandate - National Parks, Monuments, Forests
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2021, 01:45:26 pm »

The key statement in that briefing is that mask use must follow CDC guidelines on federal lands. I don't think the CDC mandates mask use outdoors unless physical distancing is impossible.

You, sir, are correct.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/participate-in-activities.html

Offline John Nettles

Re: Mask mandate - National Parks, Monuments, Forests
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2021, 02:51:30 pm »
I updated my rant to remove the part about taking ibuprofen as a new studies say that may not be a great idea.  See my rant above to see the correction.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 02:58:14 pm by John Nettles »

Offline staehpj1

Re: Mask mandate - National Parks, Monuments, Forests
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2021, 04:04:24 pm »
I updated my rant to remove the part about taking ibuprofen as a new studies say that may not be a great idea.  See my rant above to see the correction.
I saw those new studies and already adjusted my plan accordingly.  I read that using Ibuprofen after the shot was okay.  We get our second dose tomorrow.