Author Topic: Gear list: am I on the right road?  (Read 1889 times)

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Offline froze

Re: Gear list: am I on the right road?
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2021, 10:47:21 am »
I would lean more for taking a spare tire than a spare cable, I've never in 50 years of riding bikes with cables ever broke one in a ride except once, but that bike had a flawed design, it was a late 60's era Puch with internal cable housing and the cable would rub on the steel hole and fray it in about 500 miles, there was no hole protection sleeve on this thing so I wore out cable fast.  Other than that one odd bike I never broke a cable.  I have had tires get destroyed, but not in a long while, though I came close about 5 years ago with a set of Hutchison tires that the tread cap came off the casing of the tire, but I wasn't far from home so just rode it home like that.  That tire only had 150 miles on it when it did that, and Hutchison never responded to my 2 dozen e-mails.

So I think I'll find the lightest folding tire I can get for the money on that touring bike and use it as a emergency backup.

The one thing I did forget, brake pads for disk brakes don't last long like the rim brake pads do, so it might be wise to take an extra set if you're going on a long tripl

Offline staehpj1

Re: Gear list: am I on the right road?
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2021, 11:18:21 am »
I would lean more for taking a spare tire than a spare cable, I've never in 50 years of riding bikes with cables ever broke one in a ride except once, but that bike had a flawed design, it was a late 60's era Puch with internal cable housing and the cable would rub on the steel hole and fray it in about 500 miles, there was no hole protection sleeve on this thing so I wore out cable fast.  Other than that one odd bike I never broke a cable.  I have had tires get destroyed, but not in a long while, though I came close about 5 years ago with a set of Hutchison tires that the tread cap came off the casing of the tire, but I wasn't far from home so just rode it home like that.  That tire only had 150 miles on it when it did that, and Hutchison never responded to my 2 dozen e-mails.

So I think I'll find the lightest folding tire I can get for the money on that touring bike and use it as a emergency backup.
I guess that is one takeaway from that.  Mine would be to take neither spare cable nor spare tire.

Two things about a spare cable to factor in are:
1. That a broken cable will not completely stop you from being able to ride.  You will either be limited to braking with only one wheel of only shifting with only front or rear derailleur.  In the case of shifting, you can rig it so the one you can't shift is in a gear choice that is most manageable and get by shifting the other.  Pretty much anywhere in the US I'd find it inconvenient, but something I could limp along with for a while.  Might be walking some climbs for a while, but usually there will be a bike shop in a day or two at most.  Sometimes that may require going off route.  Worst case there is the possibility of getting one shipped to you.  Giving how unlikely the need I can live with the risk.
2. A cable ls pretty light and compact so carrying one isn't much hassle.
Quote
The one thing I did forget, brake pads for disk brakes don't last long like the rim brake pads do, so it might be wise to take an extra set if you're going on a long tripl
Really?  I never kept close track, but that hasn't been my impression.  The only discs I have are on my MTB, but they seem to last fairly well.  I have no experience with road discs. but I'd think in a cleaner environment they'd hold up better.  It may be that my expectations are low because I don't run hard pads on my rim brakes.  I hate the red Kool Stop pads everyone else seems to love.  I had trouble with squealing and rim wear with them, and I didn't care much for the braking feel.

Offline froze

Re: Gear list: am I on the right road?
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2021, 07:22:15 pm »

Really?  I never kept close track, but that hasn't been my impression.  The only discs I have are on my MTB, but they seem to last fairly well.  I have no experience with road discs. but I'd think in a cleaner environment they'd hold up better.  It may be that my expectations are low because I don't run hard pads on my rim brakes.  I hate the red Kool Stop pads everyone else seems to love.  I had trouble with squealing and rim wear with them, and I didn't care much for the braking feel.

On average, from a wide source on the internet, road disk brake pads last between 500 to 700 miles using standard pads and not metallic, you can get more miles, to between 1,000 to 1,200 miles on metallic pads BUT the rotors wear out faster then.  The average for rim brake pads is between 8,000 to 10,000, but I use KoolStop Salmon pads and those last into the 15,000 to 18,000 mile range and they're a lot cheaper to replace than disk brake pads.  Some argue about rims wearing out with rim brakes, I don't know about that, my rims last an average of 40,000 miles.  Rotors will last about 12,000 to 15,000 miles if you use resin pads, metallic will grind down the rotors in half that time.   PLEASE NOTE, those are averages, some people have I've read got twice the mileage out of their pads and rotors, others got less than half the average, those mileage figures have a lot of variables, like the persons weight, if they carrying a loaded bike, if they ride in really wet weather or really dry weather, are they descending a lot of mountain roads, etc.

Now if you ride in a lot rain then disk brake pads wear out alarmingly fast, I've read people only getting as little as 150 miles out of a set a pads in that kind of environment, but a lot of rain brings down the pad life by half according to what I've read.  The same is true with rim brake pads, about half life expectancy, and rims can wear out in 20,000 miles in wet and dirty crap. 

Aluminum rims are cheap to buy, but I once did the math between buying rim pads and rims vs disk brake rims and rotors and the rim brakes came out of ahead by a lot.  I'm not slamming disk brakes, I have a bike with them, just explaining something to be aware of when touring you should carry a spare set of pads, if you don't and wait of the brakes to squeal then ride somewhere to get a set of pads you might discover you now need rotors as well.  It's a lot like car disk brakes, you want to replace the pads early enough so they don't damage the rotors from metal to metal contact.

Offline staehpj1

Re: Gear list: am I on the right road?
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2021, 08:01:07 pm »
Those numbers don't jive with my impression of my personal experience.  I have generally gotten less from rim brake pads.  I know from long tours that them being completely shot at 4000 miles isn't unusual for me.   i think maybe I am doing a litlle better these days with a much lighter load, but don't have actual numbers for that.

My best guess on the disc pad mileage numbers on my MTB are that they are worse than on the rim brakes on the road, but way better than the numbers you mention and that is with the lion's share being on dirt in all weather.

You have me convinced enough that I might carry a set of pads if I do buy that disc equipped gravel bike and tour with it.  At the very least I'll keep a close eye on them and be ready to buy some before they are shot.  Maybe just haing some at home ready to be mailed to me via general delivery might be a middle ground.


Offline staehpj1

Re: Gear list: am I on the right road?
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2021, 06:21:57 am »
The list goes on and on about how long disk pads will last, so you can see I didn't just grab numbers out of thin air.
I didn't say you did.  On the other hand, I did a little googling and it is easy to find numbers all over the place.  Along with plenty of folks reporting very short mileage there are a fair number of folks that report 2000-3000 miles on sintered pads and a few outliers reporting much more.  I tried to look at when I purchased pads and at my riding logs and I think I align fairly well with that 2-3k group with lots of sandy and muddy riding.

From the commuting forum:
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/930168-lifespan-disc-brake-pads.html

BTW, I much prefer the braking feel of hydro discs and also would much rather have rims last forever and bolt on a new rotor once in a while.

Offline froze

Re: Gear list: am I on the right road?
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2021, 12:24:45 pm »
I'm not sure why those numbers are all over the place either, some as short as 100 miles and some as long as 3,000 miles, why?  I don't have a clue.  But if you're doing a cross country tour you might want a spare set of pads.  I know with rim brake pads, in particular the KoolStop Salmon pads would easily last an entire tour across whatever continent, those are the only pads I use, and they'll last at least 15,000 mile range, but I had a pair of Shimano black pads and I only go 8,000 out of them, but the real thing I didn't like about the Shimano pads was that they didn't work well when things got wet whereas the KoolStops were far superior in rain.  Fortunately disk pads don't take up much space at all, and the weight isn't a big deal either.

I wouldn't even start a tour without replacing all wear parts first just to make sure I start out with new stuff, plus make sure it was well lubed of course.

Offline staehpj1

Re: Gear list: am I on the right road?
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2021, 04:31:39 pm »
I wouldn't even start a tour without replacing all wear parts first just to make sure I start out with new stuff, plus make sure it was well lubed of course.
Not me.  I used to think that way.  The thing is that the bikes I have toured on I tended to only ride when on tour and the parts that were taken off half worn never seemed to get used again.  Wasting half the wear in a tire, chain, set of pads, or whatever, just didn't make sense to me.  Changing a chain, tires or whatever in the middle of a tour seems like an okay answer to me.  Maybe if the tour was only 1-2 weeks and a tire didn't have that much wear left, but I tend to like longer tours.  For sure if a tire or part has 1000 left in it and I am starting a coast to coast trip I am not swapping it out before the trip.  I can see why others might, but I don't any more.

Offline froze

Re: Gear list: am I on the right road?
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2021, 08:10:35 pm »
I wouldn't even start a tour without replacing all wear parts first just to make sure I start out with new stuff, plus make sure it was well lubed of course.
Not me.  I used to think that way.  The thing is that the bikes I have toured on I tended to only ride when on tour and the parts that were taken off half worn never seemed to get used again.  Wasting half the wear in a tire, chain, set of pads, or whatever, just didn't make sense to me.  Changing a chain, tires or whatever in the middle of a tour seems like an okay answer to me.  Maybe if the tour was only 1-2 weeks and a tire didn't have that much wear left, but I tend to like longer tours.  For sure if a tire or part has 1000 left in it and I am starting a coast to coast trip I am not swapping it out before the trip.  I can see why others might, but I don't any more.

Obviously that would depend on how far a person is going, if I , only going a thousand miles will then I agree with you, but if going across the US than I would do all that stuff.  As far as the old stuff you can save tires for when you get home and change them out and use the old ones again, or use one of the old ones for an emergency spare, you could use the old pads as your reserve set if needed, Chain would depend on when on what a chain wear checker measured.  I just know that I would not want to get half way across the US and now have to hunt for tires because my old pair was half worn before I started, or have to replace a chain and gear cluster half way out, etc.  But that's just me, and you have a different opinion, and that's what makes the world go around!

Offline John Nelson

Re: Gear list: am I on the right road?
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2021, 01:43:47 am »
It’s not an either/or thing.

I don’t generally ride my touring bike much when not touring. So I’m never going to finish wearing out the half-worn parts on my touring bike unless I start my next tour with them. But finding suitable touring tires en route is not usually feasible.

That’s why I start with used parts and bring spares. The spares serve double duty. They are available in case of emergency, but I expect to use them even without an emergency.

Offline staehpj1

Re: Gear list: am I on the right road?
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2021, 06:01:59 am »
It’s not an either/or thing.

I don’t generally ride my touring bike much when not touring. So I’m never going to finish wearing out the half-worn parts on my touring bike unless I start my next tour with them. But finding suitable touring tires en route is not usually feasible.

That’s why I start with used parts and bring spares. The spares serve double duty. They are available in case of emergency, but I expect to use them even without an emergency.
Well, I can say that I have sort of done that, but not exactly.  I didn't start out with spares, but when a tire(s) ws getting close to end of life halfway across the country.  I bought a tire(s) preemtively and carried it for the last bit of life for the old one(s).

Offline froze

Re: Gear list: am I on the right road?
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2021, 08:49:27 pm »
I have several bikes, so I don't ride my touring bike all that much either, but I will train with it loaded.  The issue is I will be riding this bike for the next 3 years before I retire and can spend 4 or so months on the road touring the USA, by then I would want it overhauled before I go.