Author Topic: 1X, 2X, or 3X  (Read 2321 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline staehpj1

Re: 1X, 2X, or 3X
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2021, 04:43:34 pm »
I just bought a couple of new Specialized Robaix Pro 2BR 700x30/32 tires to replace the existing ones for a Southern Tier ride (maps 1 and 2).  These could be set up tubeless but I'm going to run them with tubes.  I've changed about uncounted flats over the years and am content with something I have full confidence in for a tour.  Plus, from what I hear, you can't get them reseated without a good air source.  I'll probably set my gravel wheels up with tubeless next time I have to get new tires but these have a lot of miles left on them.
Two ways to look at that.  One is that the many thorn punctures you will get on the ST may be handled without even being noticed with tubeless.  The other is that if tubeless fails you may need to put in tubes.  I think I personally for the ST I'd run tubeless and put in extra sealant to deal with the many goat head thorns.  Good luck which ever way you go.

Offline misterflask

Re: 1X, 2X, or 3X
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2021, 05:38:32 pm »
I have triples on bikes because they were rare in the 70s and I always wanted one when I was a teenager.  I would do just fine on my road bike with a compact double.  I think your gravel setup gives you a low gear around 26 which many (me, anyway) would find a little high for touring.  Tinkering around with easily available parts for a touring setup, if you set up a 48/34 double and an 11-50 cluster you'd have ratios from 120(!) to 19, with the possibility of going lower by tinkering with the crank cogs. 

I'm with you on touring tubeless.  I tinkered with road tubeless for a while and finally quit it and threw tubed tires back on the bike.  It was the exact same feeling of relief I felt getting off graveyard shift where I could quit lying to myself about how well it was working out for me.

Offline OHRider

Re: 1X, 2X, or 3X
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2021, 01:35:57 pm »
I just bought a couple of new Specialized Robaix Pro 2BR 700x30/32 tires to replace the existing ones for a Southern Tier ride (maps 1 and 2).  These could be set up tubeless but I'm going to run them with tubes.  I've changed about uncounted flats over the years and am content with something I have full confidence in for a tour.  Plus, from what I hear, you can't get them reseated without a good air source.  I'll probably set my gravel wheels up with tubeless next time I have to get new tires but these have a lot of miles left on them.
Two ways to look at that.  One is that the many thorn punctures you will get on the ST may be handled without even being noticed with tubeless.  The other is that if tubeless fails you may need to put in tubes.  I think I personally for the ST I'd run tubeless and put in extra sealant to deal with the many goat head thorns.  Good luck which ever way you go.

I agree that there are many benefits to tubeless and I've heard about the thorns.  Hoping that running new tires will help a bit- just don't want to deal with a learning curve for tubeless on a big trip.  The saving grace of course is that you can start tubeless and just add a tube when needed.  I'll report back to the forum how it works out!

Offline froze

Re: 1X, 2X, or 3X
« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2021, 07:51:36 pm »
Of course there is a tire made by Schwalbe called the Marathon Plus HS440, the anti flat guard can withstand a thumbtack without hitting the tube.  This tire is used extremely successful on touring bikes, plus the tire lasts around 6,000 miles of loaded touring miles, and Schwalbe built the tire with lower rolling resistance than some other touring tires even though tire weighs 1,000 grams people say it feels a like it weighs a lot less when rolling dragging along using 25.5 watts.

I go bike camping, touring will come later, but I use Schwalbe Almotion tires with a ultralight Mr Tuffy liner only in the rear tire, and so far no flats, a lot people tour on the Almotion's too, and they have the least rolling resistance of any touring tire/e tire at 17 watts, and it only weighs 490 grams.  I would rather roll on a lighter tire with less rolling resistance and deal with a flat or two then a heavier tire that doesn't roll as good, though the heavy one isn't bad.  But I don't think flats are going to be an issue especially with the flat liner.

Offline staehpj1

Re: 1X, 2X, or 3X
« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2021, 08:35:47 am »
Of course there is a tire made by Schwalbe called the Marathon Plus HS440, the anti flat guard can withstand a thumbtack without hitting the tube.  This tire is used extremely successful on touring bikes, plus the tire lasts around 6,000 miles of loaded touring miles, and Schwalbe built the tire with lower rolling resistance than some other touring tires even though tire weighs 1,000 grams people say it feels a like it weighs a lot less when rolling dragging along using 25.5 watts.
The Marathon Plus is pretty flat resistant, but it does still get flats.  I wouldn't advise running over goat head thorns with reckless abandon and not removing them when you pull off the pavement at stops.  Also I'll add that if you like a lively feeling supple tire with a flexible sidewall this is the absolute opposite of that.  Some don't mind that.   I know that when I tried a pair I hated them and took them off after a few hundred miles and sold them.

The weight has already been mentioned, but it is a couple pounds when you consider that there are two tires and it is in the worst possible place.

One other thing some people report that they have been totally unable to get them off the rim to fix a flat when they do get one.  I didn't have that issue.  They were harder than most to get off the rim though.  I would suggest being sure that you know how they are for you so you are prepared.  It would be a shame to find out you couldn't get a tire off the rim when you were in the middle of nowhere, so practice at home first to be sure.  How they are may depend on your tire, rim, rim strip combination.  Some combinations aren't bad and some can be pretty tough.

Quote
I go bike camping, touring will come later, but I use Schwalbe Almotion tires with a ultralight Mr Tuffy liner only in the rear tire, and so far no flats, a lot people tour on the Almotion's too, and they have the least rolling resistance of any touring tire/e tire at 17 watts, and it only weighs 490 grams.  I would rather roll on a lighter tire with less rolling resistance and deal with a flat or two then a heavier tire that doesn't roll as good, though the heavy one isn't bad.  But I don't think flats are going to be an issue especially with the flat liner.
Just a note to say that the flat liners themselves can cause abrasion flat in the tubes, so be super careful in installing them smoothly especially at  the ends of the strips.  I do't run them myself, choosing a tire with a built in belt, but I like the idea of them better than an overbuilt tire like the Marathon Plus. I care about the weight, but perhaps even more I like a nice supple sidewall and the road feel and lively ride that it gives.

Offline misterflask

Re: 1X, 2X, or 3X
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2021, 09:21:42 am »
<<if you like a lively feeling supple tire with a flexible sidewall this is the absolute opposite of that>>
Oh gosh, I'll second that.  I describe it as feeling like you're riding in mud all day.  I have a set of 35mm Schwalbe Almotions on a commuter/shopper and they're pretty spry.  They'll eventually find their way onto the tourer.

<<totally unable to get them off the rim>>
Like Staehpj1, I haven't experienced this with the Marathon Pluses.  I do think Schwalbe has some variability in manufacturing and I don't doubt that there are some tight ones out there.  But I can't imagine them being worse than tubeless. 

<<I wouldn't advise running over goat head thorns with reckless abandon>>
Someone mentioned the Southern Tier in relation to goatheads.  I saw them for a day on the TA and picked up one.  I gather that I'll see a few more on the Southern Tier?

Offline staehpj1

Re: 1X, 2X, or 3X
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2021, 10:04:16 am »
<<I wouldn't advise running over goat head thorns with reckless abandon>>
Someone mentioned the Southern Tier in relation to goatheads.  I saw them for a day on the TA and picked up one.  I gather that I'll see a few more on the Southern Tier?
Yeah, I would say you will see lots of goat heads.  Take great care when you pull off the pavement and check when getting under way again removing them first.  That will elimiate a lot of the flats.  That said I think you can expect to still pick up quite a few especially while riding in Texas.  I'd recommend taking two spare tubes and plenty of patches.

I have no experience with road tubeless, but with fat tires on my mountain bike I got at least 1 thorn flat per week with tubes and when I went tubeless I never got another flat other than a very slow loss of air when the sealant starts to run low and I get another thorn.  I did find that I like to run extra sealant, about twice the recommended amount in my Stans setup.  That was for local riding mostly on trails here in Tallahassee.  I don't, know if skinny tire road setups are similarly effective, but for those who tour on fat tires any way I really see tubeless as a great setup, but would carry a tube just in case.

Offline misterflask

Re: 1X, 2X, or 3X
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2021, 10:49:54 am »
<<experience with road tubeless>>
I was using Continental GP5000 TLs on a velocity offset rim.  Seating the tire always splattered sealant around the shop and it took a lot of pressure to keep it seated.  Since the 25mm tire had so little volume, it was a real challenge to screw the valve stem back in before the tire unseated.  Finally one of the unseatings peeled the rim tape off of the spoke holes and I gave it all up.  To be fair, when I pulled the tire off there was a piece of wire stuck through the tread that I never knew about.

Currently building a mountain bike with tubeless and have the wheels set up already.  Mounting and seating those is a much less stressful affair. 

If I was a racer and someone else was setting them up, I would definitely want road tubeless.  Hassles vs charms is on that continuum where everyone picks where they want to live.

I investigated putting tubeless sealant in tubes and apparently they are not chemically compatible.  Anyone have experience with 'Slime' in tubes? 

I also picked up a 'thorn-proof' tube in goathead territory - tremendously heavy.  Are they worth it?

Offline John Nettles

Re: 1X, 2X, or 3X
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2021, 11:02:51 am »
Yeah, I would say you will see lots of goat heads.
Pete,out of curiosity, when did you ride this?  When we rode between Phoenix to the west coast in late October/early November, we hardly saw any.  Maybe it was past its seeding period or maybe we were lucky.  The big thing to remember is that when you pull to the side of the road, look for the plants beforehand.  They are pretty easy to recognize.

Offline staehpj1

Re: 1X, 2X, or 3X
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2021, 11:15:27 am »
Yeah, I would say you will see lots of goat heads.
Pete,out of curiosity, when did you ride this?  When we rode between Phoenix to the west coast in late October/early November, we hardly saw any.  Maybe it was past its seeding period or maybe we were lucky.  The big thing to remember is that when you pull to the side of the road, look for the plants beforehand.  They are pretty easy to recognize.
Mid February to Mid March W-E.

Edit to add, that most of the thorns were in Texas.  I don't remember exactly, but probably much of the way from Las Cruses to Del Rio.  I think I remember it being especially bad from Marfa to Marathon and maybe beyond.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 11:26:19 am by staehpj1 »

Offline staehpj1

Re: 1X, 2X, or 3X
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2021, 11:19:42 am »
I investigated putting tubeless sealant in tubes and apparently they are not chemically compatible.  Anyone have experience with 'Slime' in tubes? 
Super messy and not very effective was my experience.

Quote
I also picked up a 'thorn-proof' tube in goathead territory - tremendously heavy.  Are they worth it?
I didn't think so.  YMMV.

Offline froze

Re: 1X, 2X, or 3X
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2021, 07:50:25 pm »
The Marathon Plus is pretty flat resistant, but it does still get flats.  I wouldn't advise running over goat head thorns with reckless abandon and not removing them when you pull off the pavement at stops. 



Just a note to say that the flat liners themselves can cause abrasion flat in the tubes, so be super careful in installing them smoothly especially at  the ends of the strips.  I do't run them myself, choosing a tire with a built in belt, but I like the idea of them better than an overbuilt tire like the Marathon Plus. I care about the weight, but perhaps even more I like a nice supple sidewall and the road feel and lively ride that it gives.
[/quote]

I use to live in the Mojave Desert of California where goatheads breed far faster than rabbits, there was times during certain seasons I would be riding with a dozen thorns attached to the tire going around and around...but I was using Specialized Armadillo All Condition tires and NEVER got a flat in the 7 years I was there using those tires, before those tires I tried all sorts of tires and they all failed to stop those thorns.  Now if Specialized Armadillos can protect the tube from goatheads I really sure the Marathon Plus tires can survive since they're built to be more flat resistant then the Armadillos were.  Also don't forget I mentioned the Marathon Plus not the Marathon regular tire, the Plus has 5mm of flat resistance built into it than the regular Marathon which has only 3mm.

I'm aware of the flat liners causing the abrasion problem you spoke of, but I found two ways to deal with that, one is to sand down one edge that will be against the tube so that it's really thin; the other stunt is to use liberal amounts of baby powder.  I never had a problem with abrasion flats doing that stuff.

Weight of the Marathon Plus does concern me, but a ton of people use that model for touring so I guess they don't seem to care, but I think it would bother me.  The tires that came on my touring bike were Kenda Drumlin tires, those darn things weighed 1,600 grams a piece, what all that weight did for the tire I have no clue because they didn't last long, about 2,500 miles but only about 1,000 of that was loaded, and I got one flat.