Connecting to the Northern Tier by way of the old Northern Tier?

[KF8MO]

My wife and I are contemplating a tandem tour from Winnipeg, Manitoba to Ann Arbor, Michigan. The idea is to go south out of Winnipeg to pick up the old, pre-Bakken oil field Northern Tier route, continuing on to where it joins the current version of the route (and thence jumping off to the North Lakes). The section of the old NT would be well east of the truck and other heavy traffic that led the NT to be re-routed southerly, so I'm thinking it should still be good to ride. Any advice on that idea, and is there any source for the old route's maps? Thanks.

[John Nettles]

Unfortunately, I only have the summary map going back to 2014 (see attachment) .  I probably have the maps from when I rode it back in '87.  If you are truly desperate for them and no one else can get them, I can probably rummage in some boxes and find them. 

However, I am somewhat confident the original route went from Minot to Fargo without going to Grand Forks.  Of course, that was one of the few sections I was off route at that section so my memory may not be accurate. 

I wasn't sure where you want to connect to the old (or current) Northern Tier.  Regardless, here are the reverse of some routes I did about a decade ago.  I updated the Winnipeg to Pembina route as Winnipeg as improved their cycling infrastructure. 

Here are the routes: 

PNDW-S:  https://ridewithgps.com/routes/47112924 (Winnipeg to Pembina).
GFPN-S:  https://ridewithgps.com/routes/47113661 (Pembina to Grand Forks).
FGFN-S:  https://ridewithgps.com/routes/47113793  (Grand Forks to Fargo).

If you are wanting to do a diagonal from Pembina to say Bemidji, you can check out Minneasota's Bike Map (use the pdf as it is easier to read):  https://dot.state.mn.us/bike/state-bike-map.html  . 

Also, a few years ago during the pandemic, I rode what I call the Heartland Express Route which I created about 8 or 9 years ago.  While the entire route is not finished, maybe these may help you too if you take the Northern Tier to LaCrosse, WI.  The ride across Wisconsin is primarily on rail trails (some unpaved), but is a very nice route.  https://ridewithgps.com/collections/54989?privacy_code=3XmzOFv1x698fxdN  . 

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you a wonderful tour! 
Tailwinds, John

[KF8MO]

Awesome, this is wonderful stuff! Thanks so much -Lee

[KF8MO]

The ACA Northern Tier goes south quite a ways, to near Minneapolis, then the North Lakes goes back north to continue east through Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Is there a reason to go south? Any reason not to leave the Northern Tier at Brainerd, go straight (more or less) east to Hayward, and pick up the North Lakes there?

[John Nettles]

To answer your question, the answer is there really is no definitive reason to avoid a more direct Brainerd to say Haywood, WI route other than places/things you may want to see in Minneapolis/St. Paul area.  If you create a direct route, I would definitely check out Minnesota's and Wisconsin's official bike maps to avoid getting on high traffic roads though. 

IIRC, the North Lakes Route and Lake Erie Connector were added after the NT was established.  I am guessing that the route designers probably wanted a junction with a major transportation hub so Minneapolis was it.  Remember, in the scope of a major cross country route (Washington State to Maine), a route is going to zig zag occasionally.  A mid-route zig zag may very well have to do with traffic counts and/or lack of decent roads, lack of services (food, lodging, etc.), and/or significant points of interest.

Since I assume you are still looking to ride between Winnigpeg and Ann Arbor, you might consider a different route.  I love riding in Wisconsin, especially the Driftless area (hilly but bucolic).

A route I would personally consider is to ride down to Fargo (see above in this thread for routes), then take the Northern Tier to LaCrosse, WI, where I would pick up the various rail trails or even some different routes (see below) that take you all the way to Milwaukee.  Then you would take the ferry to Muskegon and from there, the various rail trails to St Johns, MI, before creating my own route to Ann Arbor.  The big negative is you miss Mackinac Island.

Here is a collection of maps for reference:  https://ridewithgps.com/collections/54989?privacy_code=3XmzOFv1x698fxdN .  Note this collection (I call it the Heartland Express) is not completed yet so the maps do not show campgroudns, grocery stores, hotels, etc. However, I have ridden all of it (some slight deviations here and there) and enjoyed it. 

As a side note, if you have suggestions for a route from St. Johns to Ann Arbor and/or Algonac, I would be very interested.

Tailwinds, John

[KF8MO]

That sounds like a fun route also. We do want to go through the UP, though. (Both places and people we want to visit there.) Interestingly, the alternative we're considering for this trip is kind of what you're describing in reverse plus the North Lakes: start from Muskegon, MI, take the ferry across westward, and ride the North Lakes as a clockwise loop back through the UP.

[davidbonn]

If and when you plan on exploring alternate routes, I'd suggest looking hard to the heatmaps provided by riding apps like ridewithgps or strava.  That gives you some good hints about where cyclists ride and, often more importantly, where they do not ride.

Also check out Google Street View to get an idea about how good the shoulder is and what the sight lines are like along any route you'd plan to take.  And usually if you are looking at principal roads (like state and US highways) you should be able to find some traffic stats which can let you know how much traffic you might be looking at.  Sometimes that information is integrated into Google Maps.

Another good trick is to use Google Maps to see how cars are routed between two points -- that is a good baseline to avoid.  Sometimes Google Maps will route motor vehicles onto quieter secondary roads that otherwise look like great cycling.  It wasn't very fun learning that lesson.

[John Nettles]

If and when you plan on exploring alternate routes, I'd suggest looking hard to the heatmaps provided by riding apps like ridewithgps or strava.  That gives you some good hints about where cyclists ride and, often more importantly, where they do not ride.

I agree that heat maps are a great source of information.  However, I use them with a heavy dose of verification. 

In my working life, I got to meet with the strava people occasionally at conventions.  I asked one of the reps this question.  If a cycle commuter uses the same route every day, does that count as 1 "ride" or say 200 "rides" over the course of a year?  He said 200. 

My point is that in cities, a local commuter's route would show up as "popular" even though that route may be a route a heavily laden touring cyclist would most likely avoid due to traffic, hills, narrow roads, etc.  So when I am researching routes through a city, I look at the heat maps but use google maps street view or satellite view to see if I think the route is appropriate for a touring cyclist.  On the positive side, those commuters usually know all the shortcuts that something like Google maps' routing would not know about, i.e. use a connecting side walk to cross between two dead end roads that on paper would not seem to be able to be ridden between unless you knew of the sidewalk, break in fence, etc. 

Outside of cities, to me the heat maps are a definite source of potential routes. 

Tailwinds, John

[davidbonn]

I agree that heat maps are a great source of information.  However, I use them with a heavy dose of verification...

There is also an "Explore..." function in ridewithgps that can find public routes from other riders in a given area.  Also a good starting point for figuring out how to build your own route.

I've found that heatmaps are typically not linear:  a lightly cycled route gets relatively more exposure and a heavily traveled route gets relatively less.  Put another way, a route traveled 200 times is not necessarily 200 times brighter than a route traveled only once.

Google maps directions can sometimes find you surprisingly good routes through urban areas.  Although it can also steer you into spectacularly bad situations so you need to verify those routes before trusting them very much.

Pet peeve #1:  I'd like to be able to pull up Google Street View images while I'm planning a route with ridewithgps.

Pet peeve #2:  When using turn-by-turn navigation with ridewithgps, it would be awesome to show a Street View image of where you are supposed to turn.  I don't use turn-by-turn navigation that often but when I do I really kind of need it, lol.

[John Nettles]

I've found that heatmaps are typically not linear:  a lightly cycled route gets relatively more exposure and a heavily traveled route gets relatively less.  Put another way, a route traveled 200 times is not necessarily 200 times brighter than a route traveled only once.

Pet peeve #1:  I'd like to be able to pull up Google Street View images while I'm planning a route with ridewithgps.

Just to clarify, the way I was told by Strava is that each individual ride is counted as a ride and that it is weighted the same.  So a road that has been traveled 200 during the tracking period (I think it is quarterly for Strava and monthly for RWGPS) is much brighter than a road that has been traveled say 20 times.  But if you mean "typically not linear" that the brightness is not exactly 10 times brighter in the above example, then I would agree with you.  The brightness does seem to come in maybe 5 to 10 levels of brightness.  Maybe they have a scale of 10 times is level 1, 20 times is level 2, etc.  I am just guessing on this part.
 
I don't know the algorithm they use to determine brightness but I would prefer to have them make it based on individuals, not times traveled the road so that same commuter using the same route would only count as 1 time instead of 200.  To me, 200 people riding a route gives a much clearer picture than 1 individual riding the same route 200 times.

As far as Pet Peeve #1, you can use Streetview while creating a route.  The little yellow Google man is shown in all maps when creating as does the heat map so you can drag him to a "bright" road to see if it is good for you.  I am a paying RWGPS member so maybe that is why.

Tailwinds, John

[davidbonn]

Wow!  You're right the pegman is right there and you can do Street View while composing routes.  Thanks for pointing that out to me.