Maximum Tire With on Amtrak

[adventurepdx]

To me the website is not very good because, whenever I need an answer, the website rarely makes it easy to find.  The 4" tires for instance is buried under electric bikes.  I personally would think the 4" exception would apply to any bike so it should be shown under the general heading if that is the case.  If not, then state this 4" is only for ebikes.

I agree that burying that info in one section isn't the best. But there's only one specific line that offers hooks big enough for 4 inch wide tires, so if you are touring anywhere outside of the San Luis Obispo to San Diego corridor, that info isn't helpful. So I don't fixate on that, when they make a lot of other stuff pretty clear. And it wasn't always this way.

Other times, the website does shows bikes allowed on the train but then does not allow you to purchase (at a baggage checked station). 

There is the very real possibility that all the train spots are booked for that segment.

There have been other times when I have called the Customer Service to inquire about something and they say it can/can't be done while the website says the opposite. 

I will agree that Amtrak's phone customer service can be pretty useless, and I've gotten my share of bad info from them. I guess that most of the people on the phone have never ridden a train before. That's why if I have some specific questions that can't be answered on the website I talk to the ticket agents at my local station. I realize that not everyone has that option.

Then you get the stupid case of where a train going from A to B shows two "routes" even though they are identical except for the price.  Of course, the higher price is the only one that accepts bikes again, even though it is the exact same train.

Do you have a specific example of that?

[John Nettles]

Not at this time and I am not going to spend time to find one but will post here next time I do. Again, you believe one thing.  You have more positive experience with Amtrak, I have very little so let us show the politicians that we can just agree to disagree and go on our merry way.

Tailwinds, John

[canalligators]

One example is trains 48 and 448, the Lakeshore Limited.  It splits in Albany NY for Boston or NY Penn.  Both numbers are active and used between CHI and ALB.  Sometimes prices are different for the two trains.  Probably has something to do with yield management. 

[John Nettles]

OK, but those are two separate trains, right.  My deal is the exact same train but with two "route" numbers.  It usually is something to/from Texas or Kansas (closest to me that accepts bikes).  I totally get the yield management (airlines do it everyday for all flights), but this is like saying there are two coded flights from say ATL to LAX but have different classes of service even though the exact same plane is used for both "flights". 

[canalligators]

Same (joined) train between Chicago and Albany. Eastbound it splits in Albany, part goes on to Boston and the rest goes to NY.  It does the opposite westbound, combining in Albany.

You can buy a ticket on the combined part, say from Cleveland to Buffalo, using either train number.  But it’s the same physical train.  Thus the confusion.

I think the Empire Builder does the same thing.  Westbound it splits in Spokane.

[BikeliciousBabe]

It's actually quite easy.  All one needs to do is Google "bikes on Amtrak".
https://www.amtrak.com/bring-your-bicycle-onboard

And wouldn't you know it, the 2" tires restriction appears prominently at the tops of the page.  And, BTW, it's not peculiar to e-bikes.  (I.e., no discrimination going on.)

I am actually surprised that anyone noticed.

What is interesting is that Amtrak, or at least some cars, have the ability to do wider tires as shown on the link above and then click on the "Electric Bikes and Scooters" section.  It shows that specific California routes accept up to 4" tires.  Now the question is, is this 4" rule only for eBikes or all bikes since it is buried under the eBike section since it should not matter if the bike is an eBike or not.  Amtrak really does not do a good job with their website. I still say it would benefit ridership if they allowed bikes on all trains and offered wider hooks. 

Tailwinds, John

Here's how it works.  On those services which allow wider tires for ebikes, the bikes are not hung.  As such, the hooks are not an issue.  The 2" limits applies to Trainside and Carry-On services, which usually require bikes to be hung from hooks.  (IIRC, the Capitol Limited might be one exception.  I think bikes are carried on by the passengers but not hung.)

As for the hook limitations...hooks deep enough to accommodate wider tires could cause some issues.  For example, deeper hooks might have to be placed higher in the cars.  That, in turn, could make it more difficult for some employees to hang the bikes and could require that front wheel be removed or turned.  (The 50 pound weight limit is surely there for employee concerns.) I have taken the Vermonter service four times with my Surly LHT, which has a long wheelbase.  On at least two occasion, I had to remove the front wheel to make the bike fit in the "cubby."

[John Nettles]

OK, so what you are saying is that it is the train car's physical limitations perhaps and not Amtrak's random decision to the size of the hook?  If so, fine.  I have to say I have not taken an unboxed bike on Amtrak in years so things have changed as I just gave the bike to the Porter? and the bike arrived fine.  I did tip the guy $10 so maybe he did something he was not supposed to do or something, I don't know. 

My point is, assuming it is just the hook size itself, is that Amtrak should be much better at trying to help the customer whether via the website, phone, or taking bikes/bags on at stations, especially for the amount of government subsidy it gets.  The lack of baggage service at every station is another issue but not related to this thread, which has really gotten off track.
Tailwinds, John

[davidbonn]

There are people working on these issues.  If you care about making bicycle travel with Amtrak easier you might join forces with 'em:

https://bikeleague.org/take-action/policy-advocacy/on-the-issues/bikes-amtrak/

Also, "Amtrak Bike Task Force" is a cool name.

[John Nettles]

PDX, here is an example of why I don't like Amtrak's policies.  I will still post a cost difference example when I come across one.

I was commenting on the Ludlow to Needles post and we talked about taking the train.  While, as of the time of the writing, you can reserve a bike space from Los Angles to Kansas City, you can not book a bike space from Barstow to Needles on the exact same train.  This is probably because of the type of stations in Barstow and/or Needles but to me, if a passenger can get on, their luggage (including bikes & luggage car) should be able to get on also.  In the example above, the person would probably take the train but now is not able to as s/he rightfully does not want to be separated from the bike.

I just feel a bit frustrated that with all the money Amtrak is given, they can not make it easier to accept passengers whether due to lack of personnel to load/unload luggage at all stations, not accepting bikes or bikes with wide tires, etc.  Bus companies can so why not trains in the USA? 

Tailwinds, John

[adventurepdx]

PDX, here is an example of why I don't like Amtrak's policies.   

It's adventurepdx, not PDX. I don't shorten your handle, please don't shorten mine, thank you.

I was commenting on the Ludlow to Needles post and we talked about taking the train.  While, as of the time of the writing, you can reserve a bike space from Los Angles to Kansas City, you can not book a bike space from Barstow to Needles on the exact same train.  This is probably because of the type of stations in Barstow and/or Needles but to me, if a passenger can get on, their luggage (including bikes & luggage car) should be able to get on also.

Yes, that is unfortunate. But I'm guessing it's because either station (or both) do not have baggage service. On Amtrak's long distance trains, bikes are stored in the baggage car, so if there is no baggage handler, there is not a way to load/unload your bike. Yes, I wish this wasn't the case, but that is how it is right now.

I just feel a bit frustrated that with all the money Amtrak is given, they can not make it easier to accept passengers whether due to lack of personnel to load/unload luggage at all stations, not accepting bikes or bikes with wide tires, etc.   

Amtrak does not get a lot of money. Sure, the amount of money they get is "a lot" compared to my salary, but compared to, say, what airports get? It's a pittance. They've had to beg for scraps for a half-century. They are starting to get more money, but it's going to take a while before we see the effects. And if you want to see it get easier for us cyclists on Amtrak, meaning the ability for us to wheel our bikes on and off at any stop, the only way that's going to happen is for new equipment, which requires more money.

Bus companies can so why not trains in the USA?

Comparing trains to buses is like comparing apples to oranges. Trains have their own set of rules, plus there's unions. You're not going to have the engineer of a train go to the baggage car to grab your bike.

[John Nettles]

adventurepdx,
Apologies for the lack of the full name, no insult was intended.

Let's just agree to disagree on Amtrak as we both believe what we believe about Amtrak.  Airports get a ton more money because a ton more people use them but I also think airports are subsidized too much.

Tailwinds, John