Author Topic: Oregon fires  (Read 5297 times)

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Offline mattdwyerva

Oregon fires
« on: July 30, 2024, 04:37:25 pm »
Trying to think about alternate routes if we get threatened by fire in the coming weeks.  We are hopeful to get to Baker City OR in mid-August on TransAm (riding west).  Looking at https://inciweb.wildfire.gov, I see a couple large "incidents" south of Baker City that are currently about 50% "contained." 
 
I see the forum for temporary road closures, and I will check that as we go.  As an exercise, I wondered what I would do if we got Halfway, OR and could not get to Baker City due to fire.  I see that a more northerly route from Halfway would land us on NFS roads from Halfway to Medical Springs (https://ridewithgps.com/routes/47804844 ) - yuck as fire roads can be very difficult due to unknown conditions (soft, washboard, steep, washed out, no longer there, all of the above).   Two days ago, we bumped along a reasonably decent dirt road from Twin Bridges to Melrose, MT.   It was all washboard, but not washed out, and annoying after a couple hours, let alone all day (38c tubeless tires).

Any advice here?   Get some masks at a hardware store?   

Offline John Nettles

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Re: Oregon fires
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2024, 09:26:06 pm »
The fires this year suck! 

Hopefully by the time you get there, the fires will have died or not be a threat to the TA Route. 

Your proposed route is extremely hilly with a Climbing Index of 124.1 (total elevation gained divided by total miles ridden) at a semi-high altitude and dry air with limited services, if any, including water. A CI of 124 basically means the overall day's ride averages 2.3%.  That may not sound like much but it is huge.  That said, it is doable, just really tough. 

If that does not sound doable to you and if you don't mind a major re-routing, you can use these routes to connect to ACA's Lewis & Clark Route and take that into Astoria: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/47807250 then https://ridewithgps.com/routes/47807625 .  Note that the first route (EPCO-N) is almost as tough as yours but it is paved.  Additionally, these routes may also run into fire issues and I "think" EPCO-N had a major fire go through last year or so so the scenery may not be great.

Personally, assuming I was allowed to ride on the TA Route, I would stick with it or wait it out if time permitted. 

Hope it works out for you!  Tailwinds, John

Offline mattdwyerva

Re: Oregon fires
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2024, 09:55:58 pm »
Thanks, John, great info.  I don't really like my route either :)

I use bestbikesplits to estimate time and for my route it said probably 7.5 hours elapsed.  We have not exceeded 6.5 hours elapsed on this trip and I avoid 6+ hours on general.   We usually stop for 2 hrs a day, which is not included in elapsed, of course.   That would be a very long, difficult day for us, albeit doable.

I think your route sounds more logical, so I will check that out.  I remain hopeful that we can either proceed or wait a few days and then proceed, but I'm trying to establish options.

Thanks again,
Matt

PS - Bestbikesplits is intended for racing, as you may know, but you can tweak the inputs for touring if you know your usual power output, weight of your bike, etc.   it actually uses weather forecast for the route on the day of your planned ride.  After a month or so of adjusting inputs, it has been surprisingly accurate, especially compared to RWGPS estimates. 

Offline John Nettles

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Re: Oregon fires
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2024, 01:18:42 am »
Your stats got me to thinking (danger, danger).  I have toured for over 45 years (started young) and I have discovered a few things that help ME determine how fast and/or how hard a given route is. 

First, I have found I usually have an Overall Average (OA) riding average of around 8.9 miles per hour.  An OA is the day's total distance divided by total time from start to finish including breaks.  This is not the same as Overall Moving Average (OMA) which is miles divided by time spent actually moving (clock stops when not moving).  Most people use OMA but I prefer OA. The reason is that over the years I have noticed I usually have a paved road OA around 8.9mph regardless of the day's miles, terrain, OMA, etc.  I am amazed at how frequently my OA is within +/- 0.5mph of 8.9 regardless of what that day's route threw at me.  The gravel OA is not nearly as consistent.

For a few years, I kept thinking Today I will have a different OA due to a moderate tailwind all day, lots of climbing, no sightseeing, etc. but I kept seeing about 75% of the time it is right around 8.9mph overall average.  Of course, there may be some obvious known-in-advance variances like a short day with lots of city riding and lots of sightseeing or unexpected variances due to multiple mechanical issues.  However, for some reason or another it really does tend to average out most days. Note:  I almost always eat breakfast before I start riding so if I eat breakfast after I start riding, it would reduce my OA. 

I am fairly consistent in my breaks, climbing pace, etc. so maybe that is why it is usually the same.  If I was all over the place, i.e. one day ride hours without stopping, next day stop every 30 minutes, it might change.  My OA has slowly but steadily declined as I get older and take more breaks and I have only tracked for about 10 years.  Start tracking it for yourself and see what holds true for you.

The second thing I use is the Climbing Index (total elevation gained divided by total miles ridden).  The higher the number the more difficult the day is.  Rarely do you see a less than 20 day.  For me, anything over 80 is a tough day.  Your 124 CI route above would not be fun day for me.  Alas, I wish could predetermine a "Wind Index" somehow, I would be in heaven. 

The third thing I know is that for me, gravel portions add about 30%-35% more time and/or effort compared to a paved route.  So while I generally ride 50-65 miles on pavement per day depending on the spacing of services, I only ride 33 to 42 miles on gravel.  Since gravel has much more resistance than pavement (duh), I usually ride only about 7 to 8mph while on level ground and since I don't ride a mountain bike with wide tires and suspension, I usually have to go much slower downhill compared to a paved road to maintain control. Plus gravel roads generally are hillier than a paved road.

The last thing that works for me is my personal Overall Miles Per Day Average.  This is the overall miles divided by the overall number of days on a tour (not including days getting to/from the tour).  This is a personal number you develop over the years but it could be planned also. 
For instance, say you did a tour last summer that took 80 days to ride 4,500-miles.  Your OMDA on that tour would be 56.25 miles per day on average.  This average counts rest days, weather delays, expected sightseeing days, etc.  Basically all days from the 1st riding day through the end of the tour not counting travel to/from a tour.  As a young pup, I had a OMDA as high as 67 OMDA but even then I thought that was too many miles per day.  It was usually around 57.5 or so.  Now my OMDA is closer to 50 as I am not time constrained. 

The other thing is that once you have a pretty good idea as to your personal OMDA, you will have a more accurate idea as to how many days a given tour will take.  The longer the tour the more accurate the OMDA is. 
A usual "beginner" mistake is that they think will "average X miles a day" on tour. However, many are thinking X miles per RIDING day (ORDA).  If you take any days off, the amount miles you need to ride to maintain the ORDA rapidly increases. 
For instance, if you plan for a RMDA of 56.25 on the above 4500-mile 80-day tour, you may very forget about days off.  However, while on tour, you realize you need/want a day off (sight see, sick, mechanical, etc.) say about 1 day off every 10 days.  Now you have ride 62.50 miles per day for 72 days.  But if you unexpectedly get sick on the plane to the start and have to take off 2 more days.  Now you have to ride 64.28 miles (4500/70) per day assuming you got sick on Day 1.  That is quite a bit more than the 56.25 RMDA you had planned. 
Another way to look at it is that if the you planned on a RMDA of 56.25 without thinking about off days but took a day off every 10 days, the tour would take ~88 days. 

Conversely, if you had planned on a 56.25 OMDA in the above scenario and got sick, your OMDA would rise to 57.69 (4500/78).  Of course, it takes a bit of history to help you get your personal OMDA but once you get one you are comfortable with, it makes planning a little easier such as what day to fly home.  To assist the OMDA, I personally always add at least 2 "buffer" days per tour over 1 month long if I have to be at a destination by X date in case some truly unusual happens.  Nothing sucks like having to abandon a tour 2-3 days from the end due to a plane ticket.

Anyway, sorry to go so off topic.  I hope it all works out for you whatever you end up doing.  Tailwinds, John

Offline mattdwyerva

Re: Oregon fires
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2024, 08:06:50 am »
Thanks, John.  A lot of good detail there. 

Do you normally tour alone?  I find that when I your with some friends my stopped time goes up if they are slower.  Hard to change my riding speed much, esp after a few days. 

I also find that hot temperatures slow me, esp in early summer.  I expect to feel the heat as we move down into valleys soon and the days warm up

Offline John Nettles

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Re: Oregon fires
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2024, 09:50:41 am »
I tour both solo and with a few other buddies.  Luckily, my touring buddies have a very similar riding style so my OA only varies slightly with them.  One rule we have is that we ride our own pace.  I am better than some on hills so we just agree to meet up in the next town, lunch spot, etc.  However, except for massive climbs, we rarely are more than a mile apart. Yep, the heat now affects/effects me (never get that right) too.  When I was young, 100* did not really matter.  Now, 90* is not fun.  I have always dislike cold but when young, it was tolerable.  Now, I just dress smarter (layers, better materials, etc.). 

Stay hydrated and enjoy the ride. 

Tailwinds, John

Offline John Nelson

Re: Oregon fires
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2024, 04:39:17 pm »
the heat now affects/effects me (never get that right)
The heat affects you, or has an effect on you. "Affect" is a verb. "Effect" is a noun.

Offline John Nettles

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Re: Oregon fires
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2024, 05:41:59 pm »
Yeah, unfortunately that doesn't work for me.  I barely passed English.  I still don't see how affect can be a noun since I "think" a noun is a thing and a verb is an action.  So the sentence "the heat has an effect on you" to me is saying "the (thing) has an (action) on you.  Only way I could see affect being a now is something simple like "The affect was interesting" but than I am probably wrong in that example  :D

But don't worry about it.  I have asked many English teachers and others try to get my dumb brain to understand it and all have not be able to get me to understand it.  Probably because I learn from association and I have yet to get a simple association example that works for me.

Just wish there were other 1-word words I could use in place of affect/effect.

Now back to fires and riding  ;)

Offline John Nelson

Re: Oregon fires
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2024, 06:03:03 pm »
I still don't see how affect can be a noun since I "think" a noun is a thing and a verb is an action.  So the sentence "the heat has an effect on you" to me is saying "the (thing) has an (action) on you.
"Action" is a noun.

Offline Escapist

Re: Oregon fires
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2024, 01:28:04 pm »
In the same exact boat as you, expecting to get to Oregon around the 15th or so and am worried about the fires. We must be pretty close to each other on the trail! It looks like progress is being made on some of the fires closest to the route, hopefully the progress will continue.

Offline John Nettles

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Re: Oregon fires
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2024, 01:46:26 pm »
Escapist, welcome to the ACA Forums!

Tailwinds, John

Offline sitan666

Re: Oregon fires
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2024, 05:04:13 am »
My buddy and I finished westbound a couple of weeks ago.  The fires in Oregon were a major concern and air quality was quite a challenge on a couple of the days.  There were cyclists ahead of us and they opted to use the bus service that runs on Highway 26 to Redmond, Or. to leapfrog the smoke (obviously not much use if the highway is closed!).

Offline Escapist

Re: Oregon fires
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2024, 11:33:06 am »
For what it’s worth, I am now halfway across Oregon and haven’t run into any closed roadways, and the worst AQI I’ve had is 70. I’m a bit lucky with the window I’m hitting, but I think it’s more than doable right now for anyone passing through.

Offline John Nettles

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Re: Oregon fires
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2024, 11:36:38 am »
Glad to hear you made it through OK.  My guess is that since the OP asked over 2 weeks ago, he has hopefully passed through already. 

Tailwinds, John