Clipless w/float and platform please

[slorider]

Haven't seen what I want out there yet, is there a product that matches these needs:

- cleat works on MTB shoes without "modification"
- has platform suitable for wandering town w/o cycling shoes
- floats in both directions

I really like the availability of SPD, and there are multiple pedals that meet the requirements.  Except - they float 0 degrees in one direction.  This is horrible for my right knee for some reason.

Actually, I just realized that I might try adjusting my cleat.  But can we try to answer my question anyways?

I use Speedplay on my road/race bikes and have zillions of miles on those, they work great for me.  The Frog would work, except I don't see a platform accessory for that pedal (it is available for Speedplay X series).

Thanks!

[staehpj1]

"Actually, I just realized that I might try adjusting my cleat.  But can we try to answer my question anyways?"

First let me apologize for not really answering your question.

Next let me say that it is strange that adjusting the cleats shouldn't be the first thing you thought of.

Personally I think float is not a good thing.  One of the good things about clipless is that they don't float, but rather force you to have you feet in what is hopefully the proper position.  Float is often a crutch for people who just never figured out where there cleats should be adjusted.  It can be difficult, but it is worth whatever it takes to get proper foot position sorted out.

Oh and another thing... two sided is kind of nice.  Have you considered something like the Shimano M424 SPD Pedals.

[FredHiltz]

Hi slorider,

Float is often a crutch for people who just never figured out where there cleats should be adjusted.

Float is also useful for those of us whose legs are not perfectly straight, causing the heel to move in and out a bit as the crank turns. I have found the Time pedals and cleats good. The cleats bolt into the recess of an MTB shoe and are OK for walking quietly on flat surfaces.

Another "pro:" they work better when mud-caked than SPD. And a "con:" they are more expensive.

I ride mine occasionally with street shoes. Would not want to go more than ten minutes, nor up any steep hills that way, though.

Fred

This message was edited by FredHiltz on 8-7-08 @ 4:34 AM

[staehpj1]

"Float is also useful for those of us whose legs are not perfectly straight, causing the heel to move in and out a bit as the crank turns."
That is why I said "often", but I have to wonder...  How often is that heel movement just a result of poor fit or bad form?

I still advise making a serious effort to get the fit correct without float first before resorting to a pedal with a lot of float.  That may involve a lot of trial and error, a professional fit, and maybe wedges.  If that fails then yeah, go for a pedal with more float.

[JayH]

I think Shimano makes some SPD pedals that are one sided w a platform on the other side or I've seen those pedals that are two sided clipless but have a metal ring that will make regular shoes easier.  Also, I think some shoes make a little adaptor that has a clip on the bottom that you would just clip-in and it has a flat surface on the top for a regular shoe to modify a standard clipless pedal to use shoes..

Of course, I have pedalled my Time ATACs with regular shoes before, on flat ground so not much chance for a hotspot.

Jay

[paddleboy17]

I think float is generally overrated.  You probably need a superior footbed in your shoes.  When you the foot is properly aligned, your foot will be parallel to the frame, and you won't need any float.

Look into custom footbeds.  I already had them, but they would not fit in my shoes.  My orthotist (AKA the foot bed guy) modified two pairs of SuperFeet off the shelf foot beds ($40 to modify each footbed) and they work pretty good.  Greg Lemond sell thin wedges that you can use to can't your cleats.  Pre footbeds, I had some massive number of wedges stacked up .  Now I only have one thin wedge under the right cleat only.

Danno

[slorider]

Well, I run marathons without any special shoes, so if the orthotic inserts are working similarly on the bike, I  might not be a candidate.

Also, I didn't ask for "a lot of float", just a few degrees in both directions would be fine, but SPD is nearly zero degrees in one direction.

In any case, nobody suggested any pedals which float in both directions that meet my requirements.  Does that mean there aren't any?

Currently, I own these pedals, so my question is based on experience with them:

Shimano PD-M324 (squarish, SPD side and platform side)
Shimano PD-M545 (or similar)(ovalish pop-up SPD)
Speedplay X2 (have about 10-20k miles on these)

[FredHiltz]

In any case, nobody suggested any pedals which float in both directions that meet my requirements.  Does that mean there aren't any?

The Time pedals that Jay and I use come the closest of any that I know. Which of your three requirements do you wonder about in regard to them?

Fred

[staehpj1]

Maybe a crazy idea, but if all else fails and you could possibly take a Dremel tool to a pair of SPD cleats and gain a bit of float.  You would have to figure out where exactly to remove material, but it probably wouldn't take much to get a couple degrees of float.

Then again you might just destroy a set of cleats.

[RussellSeaton]

"In any case, nobody suggested any pedals which float in both directions that meet my requirements.  Does that mean there aren't any?"

SPD pedals, at least those from Shimano, float in both directions.  Left and right.  They have about 6 degrees of float.  You set your cleat so its roughly in the middle of this float and then you have float in both directions.  If you pedal normally with heels out for instance, then you would set your cleat on your shoe so its angled.  Not straight ahead.  Your problem with having zero float in one direction is because your cleat on the shoe is not angled correctly so when you pedal its already at one extreme.  Set your cleats on your shoes so they are in the middle of the float when you pedal.

[staehpj1]

Thanks for jogging my brain on the one way float thing, but ...  The regular SPDs that I see listed are 4 degrees of float.  The SPD-SLs are listed as 6 degrees but they are a different animal entirely.

I agree on the float not being one way though.  Yes, if it is one way it is because you aren't in the middle.

If 2 degrees each way is adequate there is at least two shimano offerings that have spd on one side and a cage on the other.  There are also a couple that have the spd in a cage of sorts.  Look at the "All Mountain" models and the "Multi-Purpose" models on the Shimano web site.

My daughter used some Forte campus pedals on the TransAmerica (actually rebranded Wellgo spd compatible).  They were OK, but she said on hind sight she would use a two sided spd on tour.  She like the reversible option on campus though.

This message was edited by staehpj1 on 8-8-08 @ 11:14 AM

[slorider]

Thanks for all the comments!

I played with my cleat on the side which is giving me trouble.  It felt better on my trip to the grocery store this evening.  

Maybe the thing for me to learn here is that the SPD is centering and has limited float, which Speedplay does not.  So adjustment to the cleat is critical, just as adjusting your seat height is critical.

Thanks - if I don't add to this thread, then all is well!  I'm off to tour in a week!

[staehpj1]

Good luck on the tour!

[DaveB]

Float is also useful for those of us whose legs are not perfectly straight, causing the heel to move in and out a bit as the crank turns."
That is why I said "often", but I have to wonder...  How often is that heel movement just a result of poor fit or bad form?

I thing "often" should be "nearly always".  It's not "bad form" it's inherent biomechanics.

Tell me, what is the downside of float?  I can't think of any reason not to have it and for most riders it's a benefit.  BTW, the Pros all use pedals with float and if there were a disadvantage, they would be the first to complain.

Russell is correct, the float on SPD pedals is symetrical and the OP has (had?) his cleats oriented improperly. Also SPD's have always had 6° of float.  Wellgos and their private branded SPD-knockoffs have 4°.

This message was edited by DaveB on 8-14-08 @ 7:49 AM

[whittierider]

Tell me, what is the downside of float?  I can't think of any reason not to have it and for most riders it's a benefit.

I need the floatless cleats and pedals to keep my heels in.  With float, my feet slowly go extremely pidgeon-toed and injure my knees.  I have to consciously pull my heels in every 20 seconds or so of pedaling.  I need the cleats to hold my heels in so they nearly hit the chainstays in order to keep from re-injuring my knees.  Further, I have to re-adjust the cleats a couple of times during their life as they wear, or again I start getting the knee pain because they let my heels start going out a bit.  This is also why I like the Nashbar Ventoux 2 Look-Delta-compatible road pedals.  Their release tension can be turned up much, much higher than real Looks.  It's quite alarming to come unclipped in a hard effort, something that has happened to me a few times with real Looks.  Fortunately I didn't crash any of those times when I was out of the saddle going 30mph up a 2-3% grade and my knee flew up and hit the handlebar as my foot came out on the upstroke.

This message was edited by whittierider on 8-14-08 @ 9:59 AM