Touring Bike

[paddleboy17]

You had a bad dealer.

Actually it was one of my buddies that had the bad dealer.  They really aren't a bad dealer, they just cater to a clients who race.  My friend lost out because the dealer really was not qualified to do a custom touring bicycle.

I have moved my attention to the Jamais Elite.

I think the framing on the Aurora Elite is a better choice than the Aurora.  My Bianchi Volpe was made from Reynold 520 alloy, and I always felt that it had a tendency to flex.

There are three things about the Elite that I think you should scrutinize.

• I think 10 speed chains are less reliable than 9 speed chains.  If you get a chain wear gage, use the gage religously, and replace chain at the first hint of strech, I think you can make a 10 speed chain work for you.
• cluster and crank choice.  I no longer have the leg strength to climb on a fully loaded touring bike with a 12-27 cluster and a 30/39/50 crank.  You might have the leg strength.
• STI shifting.  I am not a fan of STI shifters on touring bikes.  I can post a maintenance protocol that would probably make STI shifters reliable enough for a touring bike.

Consider these remarks as food for thought.  You have not said much about your touring objecvtives.  I do multi day tours, a multi month tour has even more strenuous requirements.


Danno

[RussellSeaton]

"cluster and crank choice.  I no longer have the leg strength to climb on a fully loaded touring bike with a 12-27 cluster and a 30/39/50 crank.  You might have the leg strength."

When picking out a touring bike, whether its 9 speed or 10 speed has a big affect on gearing.  Low gearing choices.  9 speed cassettes are readily available from everyone with up to 34 tooth big cogs.  With 10 speed, only IRD makes a 10 speed cassette with 34 teeth.  Special order from only one source for this.  9 speed provides better gearing choices.

[DaveB]

I guess I would have to disagree on the 26inch wheels.  There is something called a 26inch road wheel.  I don't know what Surly uses for their 26inch rims.

A friend of mine got a custom touring bike built for his wife.  Based on her size, the dealer and frame vendor elected to build the frame based on a 26inch wheel.  The dealer fabricated a wheel based on a 26inch road rim.  The bike has ended up being a disappointment as there are limited choices for tires that fit the bike.

The 26" road wheel you friend's wife has is otherwise known as a 650c wheel (ISO 571) and, as you noted, there are limited tire choices in that rim size and they are not widely avaialble.  I agree it was a mistake to specify them for her general purpose use.

The Surly uses 26" MTB wheels(ISO 559) and there is a huge variety of tire widths and types available in that size and even the X-marts cary some of them.

This message was edited by DaveB on 11-21-08 @ 11:13 AM

[mimbresman]

A friend recently bought a Surly LHT 54cm with the 26" wheels. He really debated whether to go a size up to get the 700c wheels, but ultimately got the 26" wheeled bike. He has no regrets. He loves the bike!

[gregbiske]

paddleboy17
I do not understand about the STI shifters. Why would you NOT want them on a touring bike?

[whittierider]

paddleboy17
I do not understand about the STI shifters. Why would you NOT want them on a touring bike?

This discussion has been going on (three pages' worth now) at "Gear Talk" --> "STI vs. Bar ends".  http://www.adventurecycling.org/forums/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=9&Topic=2734 should take you there.  One of the problems is that they occasionally stick so you can't release the cable (small lever) and they need occasional rinsing out with a fine lube to clean them out and leave a dry film, and it's not practical to take the can of lube with you on a long tour.  The STI's in our family have needed this treatment many times.  Our son was in the local mountains last year on a one-day ride and the right lever quit working when he was still a long way from home.  The only shifting he could do for the last half of the ride was the front.  After he got home, I shot it with the lube and worked it a bit and it came back to perfect performance within a few seconds.

[paddleboy17]

whittierider explained it very well.  

Bar end shifters may take a little longer to get used to, but they have excellent limp home capability.  If you ever have to replace them, new bar end shifters are a lot cheaper than STI shifters.

Danno

[whittierider]

Back on how many companies there are that actually build frames, even in the U.S.:

This article has some interesting info.  It tells of people with regular 8-5 jobs who make frames on the side, in their garages, and features Gregory Townsend who builds about a dozen frames a year in his garage in Monrovia CA.  It tells of a man who makes lugs for steel frames out of his house in Redondo Beach, CA and sells to 100-200 U.S. makers of steel frames.  Of course there are probably a lot of small frame makers that don't use lugs, and perhaps other ones who get their lugs from other suppliers.  According to the article, custom frame builders need about 25 frames a year to break even, if they try to do if for a living.

[paddleboy17]

Thank you, whittierider, for the link.  There used to be a three frame builder in the Detroit area, and now there are none.  I think as buyers became enamored with carbon fiber and aluminum, the market for steel frames shrunk enough that these builders got out of the market.  I still remember when the US market for all road bikes was less than 5%.

The builders sited in the article and links appear to do what I would call "club ride bikes" -- I might be reluctant to buy a touring bike from them.  The bikemight ride wonderfully and fit like a glove, but I don't know how well they would do under a load of panniers.

I find it interesting to hear about another Serotta frame builder going out on his own.  There is a Serotta ex-pat in Colorado that does stainless steel bike frames.

Still, it was nice to hear that the LA area can support a couple of frame builders and paint shop.

Detroit is a cultural wasteland for biking sometimes.  Seattle has two dealers that will add S&S couplers to your steel frame.  There is not a single dealer in the whole state of Michigan that can do that.

Danno

[TCS]

There are eight different, incompatible 26 inch wheel sizes.

1)   26 x 1.25: bead seat diameter 599mm.  Obsolete.

2)   26 x 1 1/4: bead seat diameter 597mm.  Schwinn S6.  Obsolete.  Still made for very old Schwinn lightweights, but uncommon.

3)   26 x 1 3/8: bead seat diameter 590mm.  Traditional British three-speed size.  Also known as 650A.  Obsolete for new bicycles in the USA, but very widely available in bike shops, hardware stores and big boxes  in America you can still buy these tires in far more places than the industry standard 700Cs (bead seat diameter 622mm)!  Common in Japan where it is used on new bicycles, and common legacy size in the UK.  This is also a common wheelchair tire size.

4)   26 x ?: bead seat diameter 587mm.  Very obscure and obsolete proprietary size.

5)   26 x 1 1/2: bead seat diameter 584mm. Also known as 650B.  Obsolete, but a few companies are trying to revive this size for both road and mountain bikes with proprietary tires they provide.

6)   26 x 1 3/4: bead seat diameter 571mm.  Also known as 650C.  Obsolete. In the USA these wide tires were used on old Schwinn middleweights.  Tires are still made, but uncommon.

7)   26 x 1: bead seat diameter 571mm.  Known as 650C as well, this narrow racing format is based on an obsolete Italian sew-up tire rim size.  Used today on time trial and triathlon bikes.

   26 x 1.0 to 2.35:  bead seat diameter 559mm.  The ubiquitous mountain bike tire size, descended from the American balloon tires of over a half century ago.  Now made in a huge array of widths and tread patterns.  Widely available worldwide in widths of ~1 ¾ inches and greater; the narrower sizes are available in well-stocked bike shops.  In the wheelchair world, this smallest 26-inch size is sometimes referred to as 25-inch.

Based on the combination of strength, weight, availability of tires and rims and flexibility of frame geometry, Im befuddled as to why modern loaded touring bikes dont use the 559 as a standard size.

Best,
tcs

[whittierider]

7)     26 x 1: bead seat diameter 571mm.  Known as 650C as well, this narrow racing format is based on an obsolete Italian sew-up tire rim size.  Used today on time trial and triathlon bikes

and on small road bikes where the geometry would be too compromised to get good handling with 700c.  Unfortunately short people still try to use 700c too much just for the greater tire availability.  Our kids grew into, and out of, a small road bike with 650c wheels.  It was great to have that for them.  Bike shops didn't usually have 650c tires in stock, but ordering was never a problem.

Sheldon has a tire-size page at http://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html .

[TCS]

and on small road bikes where the geometry would be too compromised to get good handling with 700c.  Unfortunately short people still try to use 700c too much just for the greater tire availability.

Once again, it seems like 559s would be a better choice for small frame road bikes - just a bit smaller yet than 650Cs, and much better tire availability.

tcs

[RussellSeaton]

"Once again, it seems like 559s would be a better choice for small frame road bikes - just a bit smaller yet than 650Cs, and much better tire availability."

Not really.  26" 559mm bcd tires are not really available in skinny road widths.  On the Nashbar website for 26" tires the narrowest tire they show is 1.1".  28mm wide.  370 grams.  Heavy.  Continental Gatorskin is available in 559x28mm.  I presume a local bike shop might ba able to special order it from Germany for MSRP plus 50% markup.  I presume if you looked long and hard you might find one or maybe, maybe two other 559 tires in a road width such as 28mm or maybe 25mm.  The simple fact is 559mm bcd tires are not available in road widths.  559mm bcd is only available in 1.25 and bigger.  Not really road widths.

[whittierider]

I don't have anything against 559 as opposed to 571 if it were just a matter of numbers, but I still have a 650x19, yes 19mm, tire here left over from when our kids were riding the little road bike.  I guess I got it by mistake.  I usually had them riding 23's.  The max recommended pressure printed on the side is 160psi.  The bike's clearances are too small to allow a 28mm tire, which unfortunately is too often the case with modern road bikes.  I don't know why the manufacturers do that.  It doesn't serve any purpose, and what we've found is that if you pick up a big nail in a tire, it tends to gouge the frame or fork where they don't have the clearances they had two or three decades ago.

This message was edited by whittierider on 12-19-08 @ 11:51 AM

[TCS]

Not really.  26" 559mm bcd tires are not really available in skinny road widths.

A 45 second Google confirmed Hutchinson, Ritchey, Schwalbe, Specialized and others still offer 20-28mm wide 559s if you feel 1.25" is much, much too wide for road touring...  

Best,
tcs

This message was edited by TCS on 12-19-08 @ 1:58 PM