1986 Miyata 610

[mnmlst]

My husband and I are planning to do a cross-country tour this summer (Yorktown, VA - Eugene, OR).  Neither of us has done long term touring before, although we both love cycling.  We are touring novices, and so giving ourselves 3 months to complete the trip.   However, it's a pretty hefty financial investment, and I dont' yet have a touring bike.

A friend of my husband's gave us his like-new 1986 Miyata 610 as a wedding gift, and it fits me perfectly.  It is in really excellent condition, and seems like a solid (but still lightweight) bike. 

My question is whether I should buy a new(er) touring bike, or if the 86 Miyata in good shape with some upgrades would be even better.  I can only afford to spend about $300 and was looking for a used touring bike on Craigslist.

From what I've read online, the Miyata sounds like the better bet.  It's already equipped with a rack and panniers.  Has anyone had any experience with this bike? 

Thanks!

[cotterg3]

Short answer is yes, you can tour on it. You can tour on a tricycle pulling a radio flyer wagon if you really wanted to.

A friend of mine rode an 80s miyata (with upgraded shimano tiagra components) with me across the country this year and it was totally fine. I think compared to the 80s miyata touring bikes, newer touring bikes typically have the following advantages (at least to my knowledge):

-Lighter (though weight of the frame is totally irrelevant when carrying all your gear)
-Longer wheelbase. This provides a slightly more stable ride, but as long as your heels aren't kicking your panniers when you ride this is  
not a big deal.
-Better shifting components. Shifting will be smoother and more reliable on 21st century bikes with modern shifters, derraileurs, and gears.
-Lower granny gear (typically). The older touring bikes I am familiar with don't have a super low granny gear similar to what the surly long haul trucker comes with (for example). We rode with something like a 36 tooth front - 24 tooth rear as our smallest gear ratio, and some of the hills were a a struggle considering we were riding with a lot of stuff (musical instruments, cold weather gear, computer, etc).

I think you'll be just fine with what you have in my opinion. If you're not sure, take your bike out fully loaded for a spin and see if you're happy with it. You can also test ride some of the newer bikes at your local bike shop and see if the difference is worth it the price.

[knolltop]

From Wikipedia .... A quality touring model, one step down from the 1000 (Miyata's top-of-the-line touring bike), with slightly different frame geometry and lower level components. Mid 1980's 610's have triple-butted splined Chromoly frame tubing, an unusually high quality tubing and construction for its price level. This bike is slightly lighter in weight than Trek 520/720 touring bikes, but of similar quality.

And here's link to Miyata's 1986 catalog ... http://www.miyatacatalogs.com/2007/12/miyata-catalog-1986.html

Hope ya sent "THANK YOU" card to the guy who gifted it to you!   

Frame/forks condition is key.  Have a shop you trust check it out.  If there's been no damage to frame/forks you've got a nice base to work from, though may want to add modern componentry.

[FredHiltz]

I agree. The 1992 model served me well on a 5,800-mile XC ride.

Yours probably has SunTour drivetrain components like mine. Being like-new, they will do fine. If they were worn-out, I would replace with modern components. Knolltop is right about low gears. I'd look for a low in the range of 20" - 25". You can still find larger cogs and smaller chainrings at Loose Screws, http://thethirdhand.com/ if you need to swap some out.

Fenders, front and rear racks, and bottle cages (at least two, preferably three) will make this a fine touring machine within your budget.

Fred

[DaveB]

The link to the '86 Miyata catalog unfortunately is missing the specification page that would cover the 610.  However, based on it's age and the other models that do show I can conclude that the rear spacing is 126 mm (6/7-speed) and the original rear wheel has a freewheel hub and certainly friction shifting.  All of these are fine if somewhat obsolete.  Getting low enough gearing may be a problem since i don't know if the bike came with a triple crank.

Upgrading to newer components, such as a freehub rear wheel, an 8 or more speed cassette, and index shifting will require a 130 mm wheel.  You can use it without "cold setting" the frame since the difference isn't much and the struggle to install one is minor.  However, all of these upgraded will cost a significant amount.

[threecarjam]

You do have a touring bike! A mid-80's Miyata 610 is really one of the best mass-produced touring bikes around. Triple-butted tubing, plenty of braze-ons, triple crank, etc. You probably want to invest in a lower-geared freewheel (those came stock with a 6 speed 14-28), if the rear derailleur allows (and I think it probably does). I think you'll have a triple with a 28 tooth little ring if it's stock, might want to see if you can go a few teeth smaller. Nothing about modern components will make shifting smoother than a well-kept friction shifting drivetrain. I would take it to a bike shop you trust, hopefully one with some experience with touring bikes. You might be good to go with a 14-34 freewheel, some derailleur adjustments, and new grease. And racks and bags, of course.

[paddleboy17]

I think the best answer is for you to do a weekend trip on the bike and then decide how you feel about the bike.  You really need to do that anyways.  Some light weight touring bikes wiggle when loaded, and some do not.  Tripple butted tubing  on a touring bike sounds like a red flag to me, but then again maybe not. 

You are going to have to commit to panniers or a trailer, so get the gear.  A friend of mine swears by using t-shirts and towels stuffed in to mock up the weight of touring gear.  I always used 1 gallon jugs of water.  I am sure you can work out some kind of procedure to evaluate the bike under tour condiditons.

My Paramount was built to take a 126 MM wide hub.  Now they sell 130 MM wide hubs.  I put one in and it works just fine.  Reworking a steel framed bike to officially take a 130 MM wide spacing is really expensive.  They have unbraize a metal small tube, spread the frame, true the lugs, and then braize in a new tube.  Then it is either touch up or repaint the frame.  So just go with 130 MM wide hubs.

Is there something really wrong with your existing wheels?  I think you can still get free-wheels. 

[DaveB]

Reworking a steel framed bike to officially take a 130 MM wide spacing is really expensive.  They have unbraize a metal small tube, spread the frame, true the lugs, and then braize in a new tube.  Then it is either touch up or repaint the frame.  So just go with 130 MM wide hubs.

None of this is necessary to "cold set' a 126 mm steel frame to 130 mm.  Sheldon Brown has a detailed procedure on his web site and I've done it successfully with a 12" section of 3/8" all-thread rod, two nuts and two washers.  Dropout alignment remains perfectly good with only a 4 mm spread. 

That said, fitting a 130 mm hub into 126 mm dropouts is relatively easy and cold setting them to 130 mm is a refinement, not a necessity. 

[paddleboy17]

Reworking a steel framed bike to officially take a 130 MM wide spacing is really expensive.  They have unbraize a metal small tube, spread the frame, true the lugs, and then braize in a new tube.  Then it is either touch up or repaint the frame.  So just go with 130 MM wide hubs.

None of this is necessary to "cold set' a 126 mm steel frame to 130 mm.  Sheldon Brown has a detailed procedure on his web site and I've done it successfully with a 12" section of 3/8" all-thread rod, two nuts and two washers.  Dropout alignment remains perfectly good with only a 4 mm spread. 

That said, fitting a 130 mm hub into 126 mm dropouts is relatively easy and cold setting them to 130 mm is a refinement, not a necessity. 

Waterford offers the service that I have described.  I believe the tube that they have to unbraize is called a brake bridge.  I think if calculate Waterford's charges properly, it is about $300.00, including  a single color touch up.  I tried looking on sheldonbrown.com, and I could not find the procedure you have alluded to.  I can guess what is involved.  I think it all comes down to how much stress the brake bridge can take. 

My Paramount came with 7 speed components.  I used to have a problem that with a hard power stroke, the rear wheel would twist forward on one side, and then rub the tire against the frame.  As soon as I put a 9 speed hub in, this problem went away.  Of course my lugs are no longer parallel, but this new thrust vector is doing me a favor.  Bottom line, the Miyata can probably accommodate a 130 MM wide hub, and they should try it, and then move on to their next challenge.

[DaveB]

Waterford offers the service that I have described.  I believe the tube that they have to unbraize is called a brake bridge.  I think if calculate Waterford's charges properly, it is about $300.00, including  a single color touch up.  I tried looking on sheldonbrown.com, and I could not find the procedure you have alluded to.  I can guess what is involved.  I think it all comes down to how much stress the brake bridge can take. 

My Paramount came with 7 speed components.  I used to have a problem that with a hard power stroke, the rear wheel would twist forward on one side, and then rub the tire against the frame.  As soon as I put a 9 speed hub in, this problem went away.  Of course my lugs are no longer parallel, but this new thrust vector is doing me a favor.  Bottom line, the Miyata can probably accommodate a 130 MM wide hub, and they should try it, and then move on to their next challenge.

Waterford is being extra careful since they warrantee their frames for a lifetime and charge accordingly for the modification.   Despite their refinements, cold setting with the brake bridge intact is no problem for nearly any steel frame. 

Here is the Sheldon Brown procedure you were looking for.  Scroll down to "Frame Spacing Adjustment" and "Spreading the Frame":   http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

Your problems with the 7-speed hub twisting and the 9-speed hub remaining aligned are possibly due to a better qr skewer with the 9-speed hub or that the 7-speed hub had axle stubs that stuck out too far and kept the skewer from clamping onto the dropout face adequately.

[ducnut]

There's no need to coldset the stays with a 4mm variance. Take a look at the hardware on the new wheelset. If there are washers between the locknuts, you can remove them to narrow things a bit.

Don't forget to get your seat experiments out of the way before leaving on the trip.

[lonerider]

Sheldon Brown's procedure is way too much work.

Here is an alternative: Grab the drop outs with your hands and pull them apart. I have done this at least a dozen times including a Claude Butler, 70's Paramount, and a  Matthew, all without disturbing frame alignment or integrity. Waterford is offering a premium service that really is not required for a 5mm spread (2.5mm either side of center line). After all this ain't rocket science.

The 610 is perfectly capable of self supported touring as my friend Rich rode one in 1988 2500 miles across the country and into Banff, Canada. The bike was completely stock. It took him 2.5 months. Two complaints he had was the rack that came with it was too flexible for the load he carried, and the stock tires wore out too fast.

[DaveB]

There's no need to coldset the stays with a 4mm variance. Take a look at the hardware on the new wheelset. If there are washers between the locknuts, you can remove them to narrow things a bit.

Don't forget to get your seat experiments out of the way before leaving on the trip.

You can indeed remove a 4 mm spacer from the non-drive side of most 130 mm hubs and reduce them to 126 mm spacing. However, you will have to redish the wheel to recenter the rim and the resulting dish will be excessive.  The reason hubs went from 126 to 130 mm when the wider 8/9/10-speed freehub bodies were developed was to keep the dish within reasonable limits. 

Also, you would have to shorten the axle by the same 4 mm (or substitute a 137 mm axle) to keep the stubs sticking out past the locknuts from also sticking out beyond the dropout faces which would keep the qr skewer from clamping properly.

BTW, you cannot remove 2 mm from each side of the hub as that will normally put the smallest cog too close to the dropout face and the chain won't fit.

[whittierider]

Here is an alternative: Grab the drop outs with your hands and pull them apart.

What I have found with that is that the indentation on the right-side chainstay, which is put there to keep a chainring from hitting, makes the weaker right side get bent out more than the left, resulting in a frame that's not straight.  Still, I think the job can be done pretty simply.