10 speed vs 9 speed for touring

[BrianW]

One other note: when looking at front derailleurs for triple cranks, keep in mind that the different models are designed for different tooth gaps. I believe Dura Ace is built for a 14-tooth gap (e.g., 50-36) while Ultegra is 10 tooth (48-38 or whatever). I don't recall what Tiagra will shift, but I think it is similar to Dura Ace.

Dura Ace STI levers have more trim options for the FD, which is nice. I also think their "innards" are built a bit more robustly as they are rated for more shifts (longevity) than the Ultegras. I have a set of Tiagra 9-speed STIs on my wife's bike and they are very nice. I wouldn't hesitate to use them at all.

I was at my LBS this weekend and saw them setting up a new SRAM MTB groupo on a customers MTB. It was a 2x10 setup, with a HUGE 36-tooth cog on the cassette. The cassette alone cost $250, they said. Ouch. But, if the technology trickles down it might be an interesting thing to look at for touring in order to get rid of the challenges of setting up a triple and keeping it working well.

Also, one correction: I meant "IRD" not "IRC" in my previous post.

[kdiehl]

I have the IRD cassette and I've never been happy with the shifting. I continue to use it because of that 34 tooth cog, but I've never been able to get it shifting consistently. 

My local shop is experimenting to see if my Ultegra shifters are compatible with the new Sram XX 10 speed cassette. I'm not sure if I'm hoping for success or failure, given the price of the Sram!

[whittierider]

My local shop is experimenting to see if my Ultegra shifters are compatible with the new Sram XX 10 speed cassette. I'm not sure if I'm hoping for success or failure, given the price of the Sram!

Should be fine.  Both SRAM and Shimano 10-speed have 3.95mm center-to-center cog spacing.

[vanvalks]

FWIW, I run an Ultegra 52-42-30 fd with an 11-34 cassette with the XT long carge RD and have no problems going into either the 30-11 or the 52-34 combos.  Just set it up so the 52-34 works; the 30-11 may be noisy (mine isn't), but you won't hurt anything

[whittierider]

FWIW, I run an Ultegra 52-42-30

That's a good combination, and will shift better between the more-commonly used middle and outer rings than 39-52 will, due to the smaller difference.  You'll be able to spend most of your time in the middle ring.

Triples get criticised a lot for not shifting well; but the poor shifting is the fault of the mechanic who set it up, not the triple itself.  It looks really simple, but it's not, and even a lot of so-called "professional" bike-shop mechanics get it wrong.  Presumably the tiny ring gets used very little, but it's important when needed.  Outside of that, the shifting between the middle and outer rings is no different from that of a double-- nothing is any more complex, etc.-- but the 30-42-52 has the advantage over a 39-52 or a 34-50 double in that the jump is smaller.  Front shifts on my triple take one half of a turn of the crank, which at a good cadence is less than half a second, and I never drop the chain.  What more could be desired?

A good adjustment requires that the front derailleur be low enough that it nearly touches the big ring's teeth on the way by.  A few derailleurs work better with about a sixteenth of an inch clearance or slightly more, but definitely under an eighth.  I see this violated frequently.  The other thing that is missed all the time is that the rear tip of the cage should be rotated out slightly farther than the front, such that if you unscrew the limit screw and pull the cable far enough, the crank arm will touch the rear tip of the cage as it goes by, not the side.

[mrhook]

FWIW I use a 9 speed casette with the sram dual drive. Up front im using the schlumpf high speed drive with 27 tooth ring. My rear casette is 11-34 and im using the XO rear d. My GI is 11-160. This is great because its on a trike and i only have 1 leg, however i have no problem touring with trailer.

[bogiesan]

I just finished reading the Bicycling magazine 2010 buyer's guide. Tons of high-zoot, chi-chi toys like the five-figure electronic shifting systems "coming soon to your road bike." 
There is even a fun article on the psychology of why we lust for new bikes.

I am needlessly pointing out bar ends are inexpensive, reliable, and field serviceable. STI-style systems are none of the above. Your tour needs to include competent mechanical support with a well-stocked parts supply. If you're going solo do you not prefer to be more self-reliant?

david boise ID

[manjack]

Tom,
I have been using the IRD wide range 10 speed cassette for a few months with the XT derailleur. I can't say I'm confident about taking in on a tour. The best I can say is that, although it skip gears when I try to shift, it'll get me through my commute (50 miles round trip) when it's tuned perfectly. But it's difficult to keep it tuned, and when it's not tuned it's striaght up bad! Ghost shifting and slipping gets out of control very quickly. It almost caused me to fall over my handlebars a couple times while cranking up hill out of the saddle. I was hoping for better results. I'm going to explore other options. When it comes to this sort of thing there is no substitue for trying it but that costs money, and what I've learned is that if something is a little too odd-ball there's probably a reason why.

Mike

[cyclingsteve]

I'm new here, so first a polite "Howdy" to all!

Mike - I'd be curious to hear about your full set-up with the IRD cassette and why you think it doesn't work so well.

I just (like this afternoon) picked up a pair of new 10-speed Ultegra shifters from craigslist for $125. (The guy had upgraded and had barely used them!)  I figured that it was too good a deal to pass up.... I'm building a Salsa Vaya and will be running a compact double (34/50) so I'll be getting the IRD 11-34 cassette.  I was originally planning on staying with 9-speed and using some older 9-speed 105 levers from another bike... but they have quite a few years on them and when I saw the add for these shifters - I jumped on them.  I've got a some BB7 road discs, an XT rear derailleur, and a Dura Ace front derailleur that I've been using on a 'cross bike with a compact crank and it works really well. 

As one who has built all of his own bikes for many years, I've not had many problems with shifting set-ups... and I've mixed and matched road and mountain and even made some old Campy 8-speed and Shimano 8-speed work.  I know we're getting into much tighter tolerances here so I'll just have to wait and see once I get the frame built - it's currently getting S&S couplers on it!

I'd be interested to hear more about instances where the IRD cassette doesn't work and exactly why...
S

[Joe B]

...  I would be more concerned about the IRD cassettes since when I looked into them a year or two ago, the few reviews I could find on them were all terrible, with everyone breaking teeth on them.  It's possible they have improved, but I would want to know for sure. 

I am currently doing a build and am considering using a IRD rear cassette to extend the low end gearing a bit. I have not been able to find any reviews of these parts do you remember where you saw these ??  Thanks in advance..

[whittierider]

I am currently doing a build and am considering using a IRD rear cassette to extend the low end gearing a bit. I have not been able to find any reviews of these parts do you remember where you saw these ??  Thanks in advance.

I did not bookmark them and I don't remember where.  I would just have to do a search again.

[RussSeaton]

SRAM and Shimano both make 10 speed mountain bike cassettes now.  I use the SRAM 1050 model in 11-32 on my touring bike.  11-36, 11-32, 12-32 are available from SRAM.  Shimano offers 11-36, 11-34, 11-32.  No reason to take a chance on IRD poor quality.

Regarding using a 10 speed cassette for touring.  I rebuilt my touring bike with 10 speed STI Shimano 105 5700 shifters and the SRAM 10 speed 1050 cassette recently.  Used to be 7 speed bar end.  After replacing the cassette body on the hub so it would take 10 speed cassette, it worked fine.  Shifts are quick and sure.  Using a Tiagra 9 speed front derailleur.  Shimano 105 10 speed chain.  44-33-20 chainrings.  Not a lot of miles on the setup.  160 loaded miles.  250 unloaded miles.  Went with 10 speed because Shimano's new 10 speed shifters have the cables under the bar tape.  Older STI has the cables flapping in the wind in front of the bars.  Cannot use a handlebar bag with those cables sticking out.

[DaveB]

If you use 10-speed road shifters and a wide range 10-speed cassettes you must use a 9-speed MTB rear derailleur.  Shimano changed the geometry of their 10-speed MTB rear derailleurs and shifters and 10-speed road shifters won't work with the newest 10-speed MTB rear derailleurs.